Varying insurance risk ares?
Discussion
Does anyone know if it is a national database or something that insurers use to work out their charges relating to location.
I have just moved house, literally 400 metres from the old one, just a nicer house in a better location. Changed my policy details for the daily and the insurer said its the same area / risk area so only an admin fee to pay.
10 mins later I have phoned to update the new address for the weekend car, with a different insurer and they seem to think I have moved into the Bronx or something and have hiked my premium by about 12% + an even bigger admin fee. I asked the broker why it was different to the other one and she said its up to the insurer.
Can anyone shed any light? I thought there was somewhere you could check what sort of risk area you are in so would have thought this was an industry wide thing and different insurers cant make up their own stats?
According to a website I was looking at both houses are in the same A rated postcode.
Just noticed title should read areas not ares.
I have just moved house, literally 400 metres from the old one, just a nicer house in a better location. Changed my policy details for the daily and the insurer said its the same area / risk area so only an admin fee to pay.
10 mins later I have phoned to update the new address for the weekend car, with a different insurer and they seem to think I have moved into the Bronx or something and have hiked my premium by about 12% + an even bigger admin fee. I asked the broker why it was different to the other one and she said its up to the insurer.
Can anyone shed any light? I thought there was somewhere you could check what sort of risk area you are in so would have thought this was an industry wide thing and different insurers cant make up their own stats?
According to a website I was looking at both houses are in the same A rated postcode.
Just noticed title should read areas not ares.
Edited by RB Will on Monday 18th December 15:00
There have been links shared previously with risk areas although I'm not sure how accurate/ up to date they were but yes there is a risk database out there.
This is the first one that came up on google: https://www.visitcars.co.uk/car-insurance/insuranc...
This is the first one that came up on google: https://www.visitcars.co.uk/car-insurance/insuranc...
eybic said:
There have been links shared previously with risk areas although I'm not sure how accurate/ up to date they were but yes there is a risk database out there.
This is the first one that came up on google: https://www.visitcars.co.uk/car-insurance/insuranc...
That's similar to what I just looked up in that its only the first half of the postcode that matters. I have moved to an address in the same A / low risk rated postcode so surely they can't hike the premium up?This is the first one that came up on google: https://www.visitcars.co.uk/car-insurance/insuranc...
Nothing else has changed, house type is still the same, car still garaged etc.
HantsRat said:
I had similar. Moved into a new build. Post code is very new and only been around for a year so no data recorded yet. Is your new house fairly newish? It could be they need to build up data first for that specific post code/street name.
Old house was built in 1989 and new one in 2001 so plenty of time for data I would have thought. And the new house is on a small addition to a road that has been there since about the 70s so the general area is more established than my old house.Has your street changed in anyway? And has any part of the postcode changed?
Some insurers go right down to street etc. Others only focus on the first portion of a postcode. This is why some of the risk profiles are not hugely helpful as you may be in an A postcode, but you are on a street which is worse im that area or there have been numerous claims in that area.
We were looking at buying a house technically under the same postcode of those risk websites...difference was £250 reduction with two end characters changing. Similar for the house we are in the process of buying.
The opposite problem can be true in some cases for home insurance and flood risk where the top portion of a post code unfortunately gets categorised as at risk or has a flood warnings...and some insurers wont cover a flood risk even with flood re in place.
However the insurers using the full postcode are likely to be more accurate and it may change the result (and the flood mappings being up to date).
Some insurers go right down to street etc. Others only focus on the first portion of a postcode. This is why some of the risk profiles are not hugely helpful as you may be in an A postcode, but you are on a street which is worse im that area or there have been numerous claims in that area.
We were looking at buying a house technically under the same postcode of those risk websites...difference was £250 reduction with two end characters changing. Similar for the house we are in the process of buying.
The opposite problem can be true in some cases for home insurance and flood risk where the top portion of a post code unfortunately gets categorised as at risk or has a flood warnings...and some insurers wont cover a flood risk even with flood re in place.
However the insurers using the full postcode are likely to be more accurate and it may change the result (and the flood mappings being up to date).
eybic said:
There have been links shared previously with risk areas although I'm not sure how accurate/ up to date they were but yes there is a risk database out there.
This is the first one that came up on google: https://www.visitcars.co.uk/car-insurance/insuranc...
No idea where that one comes from, though it's quite possibly just made up in order to attract Google clicks to an obscure car sales website.This is the first one that came up on google: https://www.visitcars.co.uk/car-insurance/insuranc...
Or it could be based on this one which is the one that usually gets posted. IIRC it's Aviva used for motorbike insurance in the mid-1990s and has no relevance at all to modern car insurance - again it's only purpose is search engine optimisation for websites of questionable reliability.
In fact there is no industry-wide pricing structure (if there was, that would be known as "price-fixing") and each insurer sets its own area ratings based on a number of factors. The insurer's own claims experience in a particular area will be a big factor, but the insurer's target market will also be a factor, as will commercial considerations (eg some insurers may take the view that people in leafy suburbs will be less price-sensitive than the average customer, and charge them what they think they can get away with).
Ninja59 said:
Has your street changed in anyway? And has any part of the postcode changed?
Some insurers go right down to street etc. Others only focus on the first portion of a postcode. This is why some of the risk profiles are not hugely helpful as you may be in an A postcode, but you are on a street which is worse im that area or there have been numerous claims in that area.
We were looking at buying a house technically under the same postcode of those risk websites...difference was £250 reduction with two end characters changing. Similar for the house we are in the process of buying.
The opposite problem can be true in some cases for home insurance and flood risk where the top portion of a post code unfortunately gets categorised as at risk or has a flood warnings...and some insurers wont cover a flood risk even with flood re in place.
However the insurers using the full postcode are likely to be more accurate and it may change the result (and the flood mappings being up to date).
Similar to you its on a different road but its only the last 2 letters of the postcode that are different. Neither house was a flood or other natural disaster risk. Some insurers go right down to street etc. Others only focus on the first portion of a postcode. This is why some of the risk profiles are not hugely helpful as you may be in an A postcode, but you are on a street which is worse im that area or there have been numerous claims in that area.
We were looking at buying a house technically under the same postcode of those risk websites...difference was £250 reduction with two end characters changing. Similar for the house we are in the process of buying.
The opposite problem can be true in some cases for home insurance and flood risk where the top portion of a post code unfortunately gets categorised as at risk or has a flood warnings...and some insurers wont cover a flood risk even with flood re in place.
However the insurers using the full postcode are likely to be more accurate and it may change the result (and the flood mappings being up to date).
RB Will said:
Also just had a look on the police crime map and there are no recorded crimes around either house either.
Two posts up, you were given a very good answer. Why do think crime matters for car insurance? It’s the damage you can do to others cars, or injuries you can cause that’s the big part of your cost. Gavia said:
Two posts up, you were given a very good answer. Why do think crime matters for car insurance? It’s the damage you can do to others cars, or injuries you can cause that’s the big part of your cost.
I would have thought car crime/ burglaries would have changed the premium which is what I was looking for. If it's damage to others etc then why does my house change mean I'm more likely to crash into someone? If anything it should be lower as my new road is easier to navigate and I don't have to go past the school that was a particular hazard in the mornings.
Basing it on usage also seems wrong as the daily does about 6 times the mileage as the weekend car and at worse times and the premium for that one didn't change!
One insurer tried to increase my premium by 50% mid term because I'd apparently moved to a high risk area..
However, I hadn't moved - the Royal Mail had just changed postcodes for the whole estate.
Took a lot of arguing and a formal complaint before they decided to waive the increase "as a goodwill gesture"
However, I hadn't moved - the Royal Mail had just changed postcodes for the whole estate.
Took a lot of arguing and a formal complaint before they decided to waive the increase "as a goodwill gesture"
RB Will said:
I would have thought car crime/ burglaries would have changed the premium which is what I was looking for.
If it's damage to others etc then why does my house change mean I'm more likely to crash into someone? If anything it should be lower as my new road is easier to navigate and I don't have to go past the school that was a particular hazard in the mornings.
Basing it on usage also seems wrong as the daily does about 6 times the mileage as the weekend car and at worse times and the premium for that one didn't change!
It’s not about how you drive on the road you live on, it’s about what claims each insurance company has had. If you now happen to live on a road where your neighbours have had a lot of fault crashes anywhere in the country, then that will affect it. If it's damage to others etc then why does my house change mean I'm more likely to crash into someone? If anything it should be lower as my new road is easier to navigate and I don't have to go past the school that was a particular hazard in the mornings.
Basing it on usage also seems wrong as the daily does about 6 times the mileage as the weekend car and at worse times and the premium for that one didn't change!
There are many reasons for an area affecting premiums charged and it will be different for each or most insurers.
There is the risk that has been mentioned previously - whether it be theft, malicious damage, general crime or flood (and yes some of the risk maps have it right down to the last 2 digits of a Postcode. (This isn't always fair or necessarily accurate but it's perhaps the best they could do e.g I once surveyed a extreme high risk flood property that was perched on the side of a steep incline next to a bridge over a railway cutting. If that flooded then the entire country was at risk from Noah's deluge).
Another factor was revenue and profit. If we were making good profits on certain classes of business we'd get greedy and drop the rates or risk areas to attract business from rival insurers. The reverse was true too - if we weren't making money on a particular class we would hike the rates by changing the area to make us uncompetitive and hopefully lose that business at renewal and be uncompetitive for quotations. If customers paid the higher rates we had hope of making less of a loss.
Insurance is like most other businesses in that they are there to make a profit. If you buy widgets at £1 each from your usual supplier and they put them up to £1.10 each it's your.choice to go elsewhere and find them for £0.90 each. Some customers thought they were doing us a favour bringing their business and when challenging renewal premiums were surprised when it was suggested they seek alternative quotations.
There is the risk that has been mentioned previously - whether it be theft, malicious damage, general crime or flood (and yes some of the risk maps have it right down to the last 2 digits of a Postcode. (This isn't always fair or necessarily accurate but it's perhaps the best they could do e.g I once surveyed a extreme high risk flood property that was perched on the side of a steep incline next to a bridge over a railway cutting. If that flooded then the entire country was at risk from Noah's deluge).
Another factor was revenue and profit. If we were making good profits on certain classes of business we'd get greedy and drop the rates or risk areas to attract business from rival insurers. The reverse was true too - if we weren't making money on a particular class we would hike the rates by changing the area to make us uncompetitive and hopefully lose that business at renewal and be uncompetitive for quotations. If customers paid the higher rates we had hope of making less of a loss.
Insurance is like most other businesses in that they are there to make a profit. If you buy widgets at £1 each from your usual supplier and they put them up to £1.10 each it's your.choice to go elsewhere and find them for £0.90 each. Some customers thought they were doing us a favour bringing their business and when challenging renewal premiums were surprised when it was suggested they seek alternative quotations.
Just bringing this one back to life quickly. The wife has changed her insurance over to the new house last week and got a partial refund!
So that's one car no change in premium, one car hiked up 10-15% and another with the premium decreased.
Would love to see the stats to back that lot up.
So that's one car no change in premium, one car hiked up 10-15% and another with the premium decreased.
Would love to see the stats to back that lot up.
RB Will said:
Just bringing this one back to life quickly. The wife has changed her insurance over to the new house last week and got a partial refund!
So that's one car no change in premium, one car hiked up 10-15% and another with the premium decreased.
Would love to see the stats to back that lot up.
It's the same reason, when I do a quote online, prices vary from £200-£1500. Different insurers want different types of business and each has their own stats to back up what they think will make them money. So that's one car no change in premium, one car hiked up 10-15% and another with the premium decreased.
Would love to see the stats to back that lot up.
I don't have an issue with it. It's just business.
RB Will said:
Just bringing this one back to life quickly. The wife has changed her insurance over to the new house last week and got a partial refund!
So that's one car no change in premium, one car hiked up 10-15% and another with the premium decreased.
Would love to see the stats to back that lot up.
What do you want? One fixed price from all insurance companies? The bigger the variance in price the better the competitive aspect of it. So that's one car no change in premium, one car hiked up 10-15% and another with the premium decreased.
Would love to see the stats to back that lot up.
RB Will said:
I would just be interested to see how the different insurers all come to different conclusions on how dodgy my new area is.
They’re never going to show younthat, as that’s their business model. However, Twig has already covered it. Insurer A only wants high risk drivers, so you’re not their type. Price £silly
Insurer B only wants over 60s, so you’re not their type. Price - no quote
Insurer C only wants sports cars.
Insurers, D, E, F & G all want you as you’re not their perfect customer
Insurer D has never had a claim from anyone at your address driving your car or any of their other checks. price £ by far the lowest
Insurer E as above but has had two claims recently for theft on the street. Price £dearer than D, but still not too far off. They’re concerned that you could be a victim of theft, so are a bit more wary
Insurer F as D, but they’ve had one claim for £1,000,000 for a bad fault accident, so are nervous. Price £miles out
Insurer G has an awful track record with 8 claims made by people on your street. Some were fault, some non- fault, so the real price should be the worst. However, they’ve decided they need some more market share, so are heavily discounting theor prices this month and are within £3 of Insurer D
I’ve just made those scenarios up, but I’m sure they’re totally plausible. Your insurer may be Insurer D at your old address, but Insurer F at your new one, whereas your wife’s insurer was F at your old address and D at this new address.
so does each insurer work off their own statistics or is there a sort of database they all have access to that they go from?
Seems a bit of a skewed system if the area risk is based on an individual company's experience there.
For example everyone on the street has the same insurer and everyone has put a claim in for a prang in a car park in another town, I move to the street and get my premium whacked up because people in my street have been crashed into in a place I'm never going to go. you can say well just change insurer then but that gives you an even bigger loss as most insurer's refund policies are evil too. If I cancel after say 6 months I get nothing back so its a case of suck it up and pay the extra £100 for no appreciable reason or lose £300 on principle.
It would be good if the insurers did share the info on how they load the premiums as it could help everyone be safer and give them less claims.
For example if they told me its a high risk area as the people at number 12 and 14 keep crashing into people I will be extra wary around them. Or if I was told that there has been numerous family estates nicked off driveways in the area I would put mine hidden in the garage rather than on the drive.
Seems a bit of a skewed system if the area risk is based on an individual company's experience there.
For example everyone on the street has the same insurer and everyone has put a claim in for a prang in a car park in another town, I move to the street and get my premium whacked up because people in my street have been crashed into in a place I'm never going to go. you can say well just change insurer then but that gives you an even bigger loss as most insurer's refund policies are evil too. If I cancel after say 6 months I get nothing back so its a case of suck it up and pay the extra £100 for no appreciable reason or lose £300 on principle.
It would be good if the insurers did share the info on how they load the premiums as it could help everyone be safer and give them less claims.
For example if they told me its a high risk area as the people at number 12 and 14 keep crashing into people I will be extra wary around them. Or if I was told that there has been numerous family estates nicked off driveways in the area I would put mine hidden in the garage rather than on the drive.
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