Estate agent - sold sign on unsold land - legal?
Discussion
We recently put an informal tender on a piece of land near us that was up with a local estate agent.
We were the highest bidders by quite a margin, although we were well below the sellers guide price (about 40% below). The land was being advertised well above market rate (about £20k an acre for basic pasture land with no planning - the average for such land is around £9-12k an acre)
The sellers were underwhelmed by the bids so decided not to sell.
Next day - a sold sign appeared on the land. When we queried it with the estate agent - they confirmed the land wasn't actually sold - but they said they put a sold sign up to "take it off the market".
Is this legal? Surely for anybody else passing then looking at right move (which still shows the guide price) they could think the land actually sold for close to (or even above) that guide price - therefore giving an over inflated idea of what the land is actually worth.
We were the highest bidders by quite a margin, although we were well below the sellers guide price (about 40% below). The land was being advertised well above market rate (about £20k an acre for basic pasture land with no planning - the average for such land is around £9-12k an acre)
The sellers were underwhelmed by the bids so decided not to sell.
Next day - a sold sign appeared on the land. When we queried it with the estate agent - they confirmed the land wasn't actually sold - but they said they put a sold sign up to "take it off the market".
Is this legal? Surely for anybody else passing then looking at right move (which still shows the guide price) they could think the land actually sold for close to (or even above) that guide price - therefore giving an over inflated idea of what the land is actually worth.
But it is SOLD, it didn't sell recently, but it has an owner so it is sold! think of it like being married you ether are marred or you arent, so land is always "for sale" or "sold"
I cant see how its fraud in any case, for a start it doesnt mention the guide price on the sign. So only and idiot would assume it sold for the guide price and therefore all land is now worth more. Same with all the overpriced cars at certain dealers, they wont publish the sold price, just say sold.
This would be the whitest of lies an estate agent could tell in any case, 0.1 out of 100 for those guys
I cant see how its fraud in any case, for a start it doesnt mention the guide price on the sign. So only and idiot would assume it sold for the guide price and therefore all land is now worth more. Same with all the overpriced cars at certain dealers, they wont publish the sold price, just say sold.
This would be the whitest of lies an estate agent could tell in any case, 0.1 out of 100 for those guys
Might be worth having a word with the local authority. Estate Agent signs are basically advertisements so subject to planning law, and this appears to be the relevant part http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2007/783/schedu...
Would appear to be in breach of legislation as its not sold
Would appear to be in breach of legislation as its not sold
On top of what's been said, I'd only think it could possibly be a problem if at some point it caused somebody to be deceived in some way by thinking that it had been sold when it hadn't. I imagine it would be a huge stretch to prove that somebody overpaid somehow, since it's common knowledge that some people like to list things for sale much higher than their open market value and they will often sell for much less.
Edited by Gareth79 on Wednesday 20th December 01:39
deggles said:
IANAL but I'm not sure what law could possibly have been broken? I could put a sign in my garden saying 'this house sold for eleventy-billion pounds' if I wanted. Whilst not true I'm sure it's not illegal.
Either way, check the land registry in a few weeks
I'm pretty sure there was some sort of change in the law to stop this a few years ago. Estate agents used to get a way with some dodgy practices.Either way, check the land registry in a few weeks
They would stick sold/for sale signs up outside multiple blocks of flats, to act as advertising. It would look like they had sold loads of properties in an area, or had loads for sale (pre internet)
They would also sell property cheap to mates, not putting forward other buyers etc. Then there was the miss-describing of properties.
IIRC there was a change in the law to put a stop to a lot of that.
Some dodgy stuff still goes on though.
CAPP0 said:
I don't want to come over "all PH" but I'm slightly curious to know why this bothers you and what effect it's having on your life?
He wanted the land, he hasn't got it, he's upset.Possibly because he knows something about the land as to WHY it should be worth more than 'average', and he thought he could get a steal.
Possibly because he was emotionally invested before-the-event and now feels let-down.
...or...?!?
havoc said:
CAPP0 said:
I don't want to come over "all PH" but I'm slightly curious to know why this bothers you and what effect it's having on your life?
He wanted the land, he hasn't got it, he's upset.Possibly because he knows something about the land as to WHY it should be worth more than 'average', and he thought he could get a steal.
Possibly because he was emotionally invested before-the-event and now feels let-down.
...or...?!?
Moonhawk said:
Surely for anybody else passing then looking at right move (which still shows the guide price) they could think the land actually sold for close to (or even above) that guide price - therefore giving an over inflated idea of what the land is actually worth.
If your offer would've been accepted, wouldn't that give an over inflated idea of what the land is actually worth?havoc said:
He wanted the land, he hasn't got it, he's upset.
Possibly because he knows something about the land as to WHY it should be worth more than 'average', and he thought he could get a steal.
Possibly because he was emotionally invested before-the-event and now feels let-down.
...or...?!?
We did want the land and offered a fair market rate for it (based on what we know other land has sold for in the immediate vicinity). Does it have anything special about it - not really. It's just a 1.5 acre grass paddock which is unlikely to ever get planning permission as it has an oil /gas pipeline running right through the middle of it.Possibly because he knows something about the land as to WHY it should be worth more than 'average', and he thought he could get a steal.
Possibly because he was emotionally invested before-the-event and now feels let-down.
...or...?!?
Do I feel let down - sure, but it is what it is. Despite multiple bidders, we were the highest (by quite a margin - so we were told). Of course being informal tender, the sellers are well within their rights not to sell - and they have exercised that right.
I just think it's a bit cheeky on behalf of the state agent. Putting a "sold" sign on something that has previously been up for sale implies it did actually sell. IMO that's a little dishonest as the property didn't sell, it was withdrawn from sale. If a house is taken off the market - estate agents don't generally get to put a "sold" sign on it.
cat with a hat said:
If your offer would've been accepted, wouldn't that give an over inflated idea of what the land is actually worth?
Why? Land is worth whatever somebody is prepared to pay for it. The sellers thought is was worth ~£20k an acre and set the guide price at that level - we thought it was worth closer to £12k an acre (based on what we know other land has recently sold for) - and offered at that level. Other bidders though it was worth less and so came in below our bids.
The land didn't sell - ergo, the market doesn't think it's worth £20k an acre.
Moonhawk said:
We did want the land and offered a fair market rate for it (based on what we know other land has sold for in the immediate vicinity). Does it have anything special about it - not really. It's just a 1.5 acre grass paddock which is unlikely to ever get planning permission as it has an oil /gas pipeline running right through the middle of it.
Do I feel let down - sure, but it is what it is. Despite multiple bidders, we were the highest (by quite a margin - so we were told). Of course being informal tender, the sellers are well within their rights not to sell - and they have exercised that right.
I just think it's a bit cheeky on behalf of the state agent. Putting a "sold" sign on something that has previously been up for sale implies it did actually sell. IMO that's a little dishonest as the property didn't sell, it was withdrawn from sale. If a house is taken off the market - estate agents don't generally get to put a "sold" sign on it.
How do you know it didn't sell?Do I feel let down - sure, but it is what it is. Despite multiple bidders, we were the highest (by quite a margin - so we were told). Of course being informal tender, the sellers are well within their rights not to sell - and they have exercised that right.
I just think it's a bit cheeky on behalf of the state agent. Putting a "sold" sign on something that has previously been up for sale implies it did actually sell. IMO that's a little dishonest as the property didn't sell, it was withdrawn from sale. If a house is taken off the market - estate agents don't generally get to put a "sold" sign on it.
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