To van or not.. towing vs van
Discussion
I am on the final mile stretch in making my decision to van or not as the primary car and i am re-reviewing my options before ploughing thousands into something i do not quite need yet...
So... Anyone tow bikes on a collapsible (or not) trailer with their primary vehicle? bikes are KTM enduro and S1000rr.
The only downside i can see is that i can not leave the vehicle and trailer alone for longer than a couple of minutes nowadays without it going walkies, meaning that overnight stays etc. are pretty much out of the question... unless the bikes or trailer can be secured.
Anything i am missing?
So... Anyone tow bikes on a collapsible (or not) trailer with their primary vehicle? bikes are KTM enduro and S1000rr.
The only downside i can see is that i can not leave the vehicle and trailer alone for longer than a couple of minutes nowadays without it going walkies, meaning that overnight stays etc. are pretty much out of the question... unless the bikes or trailer can be secured.
Anything i am missing?
I'm a trailer user simply because I can't afford a Van as well as a car (as well as 4 bikes). Unfortunately I can't get by with just a van.
It really depends how often and where you need to carry bikes - if much motorway work then a van's normally better as 70mph limit and able to use outside lane - saying that, a 500 mile trip to mid-Wales a few Saturdays ago caused little issue and 70/80 is easily maintainable with a decent trailer plus I was in car comfort - heated seats/decent stereo.
Van is better generally all round (loading/security/getting changed etc) but it comes down with whether you can afford and have room for one as a 2nd vehicle or can live with just a van the rest of the time.
If you do go down the trailer route, I wouldn't use a collapsible one with the S1000RR, also look for 10" or 13" wheels as it gives the wheel bearings and tyres an easier time - the difference between a good & bad trailer is usually £200/£300 and will be seen back come sale time.
eta - just a random thought, things like VW Caravelles/Hyundai i800 are technically cars as far as insurance and motorway speeds are concerned, one of these with limo tinted windows keep crossing my mind.
It really depends how often and where you need to carry bikes - if much motorway work then a van's normally better as 70mph limit and able to use outside lane - saying that, a 500 mile trip to mid-Wales a few Saturdays ago caused little issue and 70/80 is easily maintainable with a decent trailer plus I was in car comfort - heated seats/decent stereo.
Van is better generally all round (loading/security/getting changed etc) but it comes down with whether you can afford and have room for one as a 2nd vehicle or can live with just a van the rest of the time.
If you do go down the trailer route, I wouldn't use a collapsible one with the S1000RR, also look for 10" or 13" wheels as it gives the wheel bearings and tyres an easier time - the difference between a good & bad trailer is usually £200/£300 and will be seen back come sale time.
eta - just a random thought, things like VW Caravelles/Hyundai i800 are technically cars as far as insurance and motorway speeds are concerned, one of these with limo tinted windows keep crossing my mind.
Edited by graham22 on Wednesday 20th December 13:11
Thanks.
I do not really have the space for a non-collapsible trailer right now - it would have to be garaged and up against a wall. Space is a serious premium. Anything left outside will get stolen (central manchester).
Assume the weight would be to much on a collapsible with the S1000RR? (circa 204kg wet).
The cost saving of thousands and keeping a usable family car, or even upgrading to a SUV for a bit, is massively appealing, and cost saving, rather than a VW Kombi van.
I do not really have the space for a non-collapsible trailer right now - it would have to be garaged and up against a wall. Space is a serious premium. Anything left outside will get stolen (central manchester).
Assume the weight would be to much on a collapsible with the S1000RR? (circa 204kg wet).
The cost saving of thousands and keeping a usable family car, or even upgrading to a SUV for a bit, is massively appealing, and cost saving, rather than a VW Kombi van.
having had both I would never go back to a trailer, but like everything it depends on your own personal circumstances. i ve got more space to store a van over a trailer (securely), insurance is a couple of hundred quid, not much difference in mpg and a whole load more useful (like sleeping in, security etc) The T5 cost about £1000 in depreciation over 5 years, but now have a Mk6 tranny which was a quarter of the price and at the bottom of its depreciation curve now so should still be cheap like that and probably more reliable than the VW.
When it comes to transporting a bike then there is nothing that compares to a van
When it comes to normal day to day driving without needing to transport a bike, then there is nothing that compares to a car.
You will be compromising on something unless you get both, and even then it’s a compromise to your bank balance.
When it comes to normal day to day driving without needing to transport a bike, then there is nothing that compares to a car.
You will be compromising on something unless you get both, and even then it’s a compromise to your bank balance.
poo at Paul's said:
Van. You can get a decent van for £1500 and you'll wonder how you went on without it. After three years, my £1200 van was sold for £1000 and I went for a £7k 62 plate version of the same van.
Trailers for years, but it's a no brainer. Van wins, hands down
Cost isn’t an issue for him, it’s practicality. Trailers for years, but it's a no brainer. Van wins, hands down
Further thought - how often are you talking OP, particularly the BMW?
If not often, can you hire a decent box trailer/tow-a-van for the weekends required for the S1000R and buy a collapsible trailer for the KTM?
Hired a tow-a-van for moving house before, nice & low load height, not bad to tow, relatively secure, if I had room would consider that route myself.
If not often, can you hire a decent box trailer/tow-a-van for the weekends required for the S1000R and buy a collapsible trailer for the KTM?
Hired a tow-a-van for moving house before, nice & low load height, not bad to tow, relatively secure, if I had room would consider that route myself.
BobSaunders said:
I am on the final mile stretch in making my decision to van or not as the primary car and i am re-reviewing my options before ploughing thousands into something i do not quite need yet...
So... Anyone tow bikes on a collapsible (or not) trailer with their primary vehicle? bikes are KTM enduro and S1000rr.
The only downside i can see is that i can not leave the vehicle and trailer alone for longer than a couple of minutes nowadays without it going walkies, meaning that overnight stays etc. are pretty much out of the question... unless the bikes or trailer can be secured.
Anything i am missing?
I'd recommend a Van Trailer (box & therefore securable), which I used on the back of the X5 or Winnebago when I was racing. Towed well and secured with suitable ironmongery, never had any issues with scrotes. A van was a litestyle choice I (SWMBO) couldn't make So... Anyone tow bikes on a collapsible (or not) trailer with their primary vehicle? bikes are KTM enduro and S1000rr.
The only downside i can see is that i can not leave the vehicle and trailer alone for longer than a couple of minutes nowadays without it going walkies, meaning that overnight stays etc. are pretty much out of the question... unless the bikes or trailer can be secured.
Anything i am missing?
graham22 said:
Further thought - how often are you talking OP, particularly the BMW?
If not often, can you hire a decent box trailer/tow-a-van for the weekends required for the S1000R and buy a collapsible trailer for the KTM?
Hired a tow-a-van for moving house before, nice & low load height, not bad to tow, relatively secure, if I had room would consider that route myself.
Towing or van need is based on;If not often, can you hire a decent box trailer/tow-a-van for the weekends required for the S1000R and buy a collapsible trailer for the KTM?
Hired a tow-a-van for moving house before, nice & low load height, not bad to tow, relatively secure, if I had room would consider that route myself.
Using the enduro twice a month (Wales, Scotland, enduro parks etc.), and taking it on holiday to the likes of Cornwall/Wales/Scotland/*France*.
The S1000RR for holidays only - usage maybe once or twice a week when away to go and explore.
Towing both on some holidays.
I think you have a point re. hiring for the S1000rr - it will be few and far between.
Just to add, we have a 10-month old, and are proposing another in 2018 or early 2019. God willing.
Reality says that in 2020-2022 they are going to want to start doing things like riding bicycles, and family pets will start to come into play.. so yes, a Kombi will be on the scene then. It's whether i pull the trigger now in 2018 knowing that i might replace in 2022 anyway...
Little devil on the shoulder is saying do it, you need the space now.. look at all the wonderful things you can do with a van.. how practical everything is.. how cool they look..
Head says get the collapsible trailer based on current requirements and the known two year plan, and save yourself at least 10k over the next two years based on the practicality of a trailer and a roof box. And then ploughing that 10k in as extra deposit/purchase.
Reality says that in 2020-2022 they are going to want to start doing things like riding bicycles, and family pets will start to come into play.. so yes, a Kombi will be on the scene then. It's whether i pull the trigger now in 2018 knowing that i might replace in 2022 anyway...
Little devil on the shoulder is saying do it, you need the space now.. look at all the wonderful things you can do with a van.. how practical everything is.. how cool they look..
Head says get the collapsible trailer based on current requirements and the known two year plan, and save yourself at least 10k over the next two years based on the practicality of a trailer and a roof box. And then ploughing that 10k in as extra deposit/purchase.
Edited by BobSaunders on Wednesday 20th December 14:32
You’re going to lose some of that £10k on a car in the next two years so can’t rely on all of it. If you’re going to use the Enduro as much as you say then a van would be great, but there is a great option.
Get a big 4x4 and fit a rack on the back, that will keep the muddy Enduro bike on the outside
http://www.davecooper.co.uk/bike-racks/motorcycle-...
Cheaper versions are available amd they can all be removed in minutes to avoid theft.
Oh and don’t forget that a filthy Enduro bike will ruin the inside of your Kombi in no time. Enduro is unbelievably dirty and the damage your bike and kit will do will make you cry. I’ve spent a lot of money on a secondary set of flooring to cover off the dirty Enduro / MX months in my van and that’s just a van, not a kombi.
Get a big 4x4 and fit a rack on the back, that will keep the muddy Enduro bike on the outside
http://www.davecooper.co.uk/bike-racks/motorcycle-...
Cheaper versions are available amd they can all be removed in minutes to avoid theft.
Oh and don’t forget that a filthy Enduro bike will ruin the inside of your Kombi in no time. Enduro is unbelievably dirty and the damage your bike and kit will do will make you cry. I’ve spent a lot of money on a secondary set of flooring to cover off the dirty Enduro / MX months in my van and that’s just a van, not a kombi.
Gavia said:
You’re going to lose some of that £10k on a car in the next two years so can’t rely on all of it. If you’re going to use the Enduro as much as you say then a van would be great, but there is a great option.
Get a big 4x4 and fit a rack on the back, that will keep the muddy Enduro bike on the outside
http://www.davecooper.co.uk/bike-racks/motorcycle-...
Cheaper versions are available and they can all be removed in minutes to avoid theft.
Oh and don’t forget that a filthy Enduro bike will ruin the inside of your Kombi in no time. Enduro is unbelievably dirty and the damage your bike and kit will do will make you cry. I’ve spent a lot of money on a secondary set of flooring to cover off the dirty Enduro / MX months in my van and that’s just a van, not a kombi.
Good points on all fronts there Gavia - and food for thought. Get a big 4x4 and fit a rack on the back, that will keep the muddy Enduro bike on the outside
http://www.davecooper.co.uk/bike-racks/motorcycle-...
Cheaper versions are available and they can all be removed in minutes to avoid theft.
Oh and don’t forget that a filthy Enduro bike will ruin the inside of your Kombi in no time. Enduro is unbelievably dirty and the damage your bike and kit will do will make you cry. I’ve spent a lot of money on a secondary set of flooring to cover off the dirty Enduro / MX months in my van and that’s just a van, not a kombi.
I've looked at those racks and then discounted them as i was looking for a solution for the S1k at the time (six months ago).
The collapsible Dave Coopers double bike (http://www.davecooper.co.uk/trailers/trailers-for-bikes) are rated up to 350kg load. The current car can tow unbraked 745kg. The collapsible trailer must be 100kg easy (including wheels). S1000rr wet is what circa 220kg easy. KTM wet is circa 120kg easy. (without looking it all up). So i am playing to the maximum capacity of the trailer wet, but the current car is fine.
Maybe i suck up staying with the current car, put the van on hold until 2020, get a collapsible trailer and roof box.
One thing to be very wary of is being followed home with a bike on a trailer of a rack. Yes, in a van, they can follow you from an event, but it mittigates the risk having the bike in an anonymous van. Mine have both been black, with scratches and dents! No Fox stockers, no Ducati stockers, no chequesred flags and no attached awnings. So far so good. But plenty of mates with less descreet stuff have sadly had issues.
BTW, the point about kids etc is a good one. We do regular MTB ing now, just three of us, but on 27.5 and 29er bikes. It is amazing how much room you need in a van, but again, so much easier than roof racks on cars, and keep the stuff hidden away. 3 decent hardtail MTBs can be £5k.
And another vote for the van is it is like having a second garage or big shed!! Mine is currently hiding my daughters new TV bed for Xmas! !
I scrobbled about for years doing DIY and building, racing, trackdays etc with car and trailer, and YES it is possible, but the van just makes it so much easier.
My point BTW about a cheap decent van is have one as well as the car etc, ie instead of a trailer. If you have space.
BTW, the point about kids etc is a good one. We do regular MTB ing now, just three of us, but on 27.5 and 29er bikes. It is amazing how much room you need in a van, but again, so much easier than roof racks on cars, and keep the stuff hidden away. 3 decent hardtail MTBs can be £5k.
And another vote for the van is it is like having a second garage or big shed!! Mine is currently hiding my daughters new TV bed for Xmas! !
I scrobbled about for years doing DIY and building, racing, trackdays etc with car and trailer, and YES it is possible, but the van just makes it so much easier.
My point BTW about a cheap decent van is have one as well as the car etc, ie instead of a trailer. If you have space.
I tow my track bike with a Moto-Lug trailer. It’s a brilliant bit of kit. Collapses down to its component parts and is easy to store. Quite pricey but if/when you sell you get a fair chunk back. It tows well, mine has 10” wheels.
Towing has its drawbacks though. I’ve listed some below.
Speed limits are lower
Bike gets covered in crud thrown up by tow vehicle
If you load the trailer the night before you need to fit it in the garage overnight
Hooking the trailer up and getting it out of the garage at 5am to get to a track day is noisy (ask my wife and neighbours!)
Something else to maintain.
Can’t leave it alone for long, with or without bikes on, someone will take a fancy to it. (already mentioned in previous posts).
Vans do seem better all round, just depends if you can live with driving one every day.
DD33
Towing has its drawbacks though. I’ve listed some below.
Speed limits are lower
Bike gets covered in crud thrown up by tow vehicle
If you load the trailer the night before you need to fit it in the garage overnight
Hooking the trailer up and getting it out of the garage at 5am to get to a track day is noisy (ask my wife and neighbours!)
Something else to maintain.
Can’t leave it alone for long, with or without bikes on, someone will take a fancy to it. (already mentioned in previous posts).
Vans do seem better all round, just depends if you can live with driving one every day.
DD33
I can honestly say that December 2016 when I picked up my eBay win locally for £310, it was the best things I'd ever bought relating to bikes.
Sure, it's only a W plate Vauxhall Movano LWB hightop, has panelling in the back, a fubar gearbox(replaced for £300), but it has served me well for the last year of track days and racing. I sleep in it at circuits further afield. It does 70mph. It struggles like hell getting up the last hill to Cadwell though.
I couldn't do it without it.
How much longer it is for this world I don't know, but I will replace it with another van after because of how useful it has been to me.
Sure, it's only a W plate Vauxhall Movano LWB hightop, has panelling in the back, a fubar gearbox(replaced for £300), but it has served me well for the last year of track days and racing. I sleep in it at circuits further afield. It does 70mph. It struggles like hell getting up the last hill to Cadwell though.
I couldn't do it without it.
How much longer it is for this world I don't know, but I will replace it with another van after because of how useful it has been to me.
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