Discussion
Or to put it more accurately entering 21st century.
Seriously my dear old NAD amp 3130 has given sterling service and a recent upgrade and repair likely means another 30 years service possible.
My Marantz cd 65DX player has also and still is offering its best.
Teamed with a pair of floor standers that I purchased 2nd hand QUAD 21L which are sort of ok.
I would like to improve the sound quality, presently it is a little thin with no real punch, wispy washy. I feel sure it’s the speakers that I should consider replacing, but with what?
I am not afraid to go used market to perhaps secure better quality for my budget.
Budget around 1200 pounds or so.
Any advise links appreciated.
Seriously my dear old NAD amp 3130 has given sterling service and a recent upgrade and repair likely means another 30 years service possible.
My Marantz cd 65DX player has also and still is offering its best.
Teamed with a pair of floor standers that I purchased 2nd hand QUAD 21L which are sort of ok.
I would like to improve the sound quality, presently it is a little thin with no real punch, wispy washy. I feel sure it’s the speakers that I should consider replacing, but with what?
I am not afraid to go used market to perhaps secure better quality for my budget.
Budget around 1200 pounds or so.
Any advise links appreciated.
Not sure Richer Sounds sell them, you might have to go to another hi-fi shop for a listen. I picked a mint pair up off e-bay (they seem to hold their money really well). My lounge is only about 4m x 4m but they're certainly more than enough for me.
Review here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BN6s1S1cPPE&li...
Review here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BN6s1S1cPPE&li...
Fancy upping the budget a little (or maybe a cheeky offer would get them)?
Buy these and never look for another pair of speakers again - truly superb sound from top to bottom with one of the best mid-drivers in the business.
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?5441...
It's where my money would go (and nearly did on their bigger active brothers).
Buy these and never look for another pair of speakers again - truly superb sound from top to bottom with one of the best mid-drivers in the business.
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?5441...
It's where my money would go (and nearly did on their bigger active brothers).
legzr1 said:
Fancy upping the budget a little (or maybe a cheeky offer would get them)?
Buy these and never look for another pair of speakers again - truly superb sound from top to bottom with one of the best mid-drivers in the business.
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?5441...
It's where my money would go (and nearly did on their bigger active brothers).
Holy Mo!!, temptation is the work of satan. Buy these and never look for another pair of speakers again - truly superb sound from top to bottom with one of the best mid-drivers in the business.
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?5441...
It's where my money would go (and nearly did on their bigger active brothers).
They do seem to offer what I am looking for, had a read of an early review when the speakers were three years old.
Question if I may, do you feel that my NAD 3130 will do them justice?
Thank you for posting.
Honest answer, probably not but it would be nice knowing that as good as they sound with the NAD, they're capable of handling just about any future upgrade.
The pre/power link on the back of your amp also offers an interesting option (and apologies for spending more of your money
) - if you like the sound of the 3130 you could add a power amp at a later date which would take care of any possible issues of driving the ATCs to serious levels.
All hand built in-house from a company refreshingly free from bulls
t:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=8s&v=HJHul8HgbPs
The pre/power link on the back of your amp also offers an interesting option (and apologies for spending more of your money
) - if you like the sound of the 3130 you could add a power amp at a later date which would take care of any possible issues of driving the ATCs to serious levels.All hand built in-house from a company refreshingly free from bulls
t:https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=8s&v=HJHul8HgbPs
What sort of music do you listen to? How do you like it to sound?
Given my experience with hifi, I'm a great believer in balance. Unless you have plans on spending even more money on source and amplification, I wouldn't spend £1200 on a pair of speakers for the Marantz and NAD.
It would be interesting to see if Richer Sounds would let you bring the amp and CD along to the listening room and put together a package by identifying what is the weak link. I suspect it's probably the speakers, followed by the amplifier. Those old Marantz CD players I think have the legendary Philips DAC in so I think you'd have to spend quite a bit to get a noticable improvement.
If you want a decent sound stage, I'm mightily impressed with my Tannoys with the dual concentric driver, the sound from each speaker sounds as if it's a point source and so with that accuracy you really get the sound "hanging in the air" between them. I also rate Monitor Audio stuff, the Silver range is very good value for money and the floorstanders are surprisingly compact and smart looking.
I'd be tempted to get some £700-ish brand new speakers (avoids them turning up with damage to the drivers during transit), a £300-400 amplifier second hand from eBay, and spend the rest on some new CDs to listen to!
You could give a set of Tannoy XT6Fs and a Linn Majik or Arcam A85/A90 or FMJ a go? Or stick with NAD for power, the new direct digital amplifiers are meant to be very, very good.
Given my experience with hifi, I'm a great believer in balance. Unless you have plans on spending even more money on source and amplification, I wouldn't spend £1200 on a pair of speakers for the Marantz and NAD.
It would be interesting to see if Richer Sounds would let you bring the amp and CD along to the listening room and put together a package by identifying what is the weak link. I suspect it's probably the speakers, followed by the amplifier. Those old Marantz CD players I think have the legendary Philips DAC in so I think you'd have to spend quite a bit to get a noticable improvement.
If you want a decent sound stage, I'm mightily impressed with my Tannoys with the dual concentric driver, the sound from each speaker sounds as if it's a point source and so with that accuracy you really get the sound "hanging in the air" between them. I also rate Monitor Audio stuff, the Silver range is very good value for money and the floorstanders are surprisingly compact and smart looking.
I'd be tempted to get some £700-ish brand new speakers (avoids them turning up with damage to the drivers during transit), a £300-400 amplifier second hand from eBay, and spend the rest on some new CDs to listen to!
You could give a set of Tannoy XT6Fs and a Linn Majik or Arcam A85/A90 or FMJ a go? Or stick with NAD for power, the new direct digital amplifiers are meant to be very, very good.
The NAD 3130 is 30w per channel - grossly under rated for most of the speakers recommended above.
Firstly - are your speakers wired in phase???
OP, I suspect you would get more of an improvement simply upgrading your amp.
It was essentially a budget amp back in the day (one step up from the "legendary" 3020 IIRC).
You could pick up a NAD C352 off Ebay for around £300 and that would offer a far more useful 80w RMS per channel and probably wake your speakers up a bit too.
And if that still wasn't enough, you'd still have money left in your budget for a speaker upgrade (which I don't think is necessary) or to add a decent DAC.
The Marantz CD player does indeed have the "legendary" TDA1541 DAC chip, however my experience of that chip is that it can sound a bit thin in the wrong system.
I have a Sony CDP227ESD with dual 1541 DAC chips and that sounds pretty good compared to other (single DAC) players I've tried.
Another good amp worthy of mention is the Marantz PM7200 which can also be had from Ebay for around £350.
I've had both the above amps in the past, and they do sound good.
NAD 3130 spec:
EDIT
The Quad 21L specs look pretty good too (I know specs don't tell the full story) but they look to have pretty good bass extension.
Firstly - are your speakers wired in phase???
OP, I suspect you would get more of an improvement simply upgrading your amp.
It was essentially a budget amp back in the day (one step up from the "legendary" 3020 IIRC).
You could pick up a NAD C352 off Ebay for around £300 and that would offer a far more useful 80w RMS per channel and probably wake your speakers up a bit too.
And if that still wasn't enough, you'd still have money left in your budget for a speaker upgrade (which I don't think is necessary) or to add a decent DAC.
The Marantz CD player does indeed have the "legendary" TDA1541 DAC chip, however my experience of that chip is that it can sound a bit thin in the wrong system.
I have a Sony CDP227ESD with dual 1541 DAC chips and that sounds pretty good compared to other (single DAC) players I've tried.
Another good amp worthy of mention is the Marantz PM7200 which can also be had from Ebay for around £350.
I've had both the above amps in the past, and they do sound good.
NAD 3130 spec:
EDIT
The Quad 21L specs look pretty good too (I know specs don't tell the full story) but they look to have pretty good bass extension.
Edited by TonyRPH on Thursday 21st December 21:41
lostmotel said:
What sort of music do you listen to? How do you like it to sound?
Given my experience with hifi, I'm a great believer in balance. Unless you have plans on spending even more money on source and amplification, I wouldn't spend £1200 on a pair of speakers for the Marantz and NAD.
It would be interesting to see if Richer Sounds would let you bring the amp and CD along to the listening room and put together a package by identifying what is the weak link. I suspect it's probably the speakers, followed by the amplifier. Those old Marantz CD players I think have the legendary Philips DAC in so I think you'd have to spend quite a bit to get a noticable improvement.
If you want a decent sound stage, I'm mightily impressed with my Tannoys with the dual concentric driver, the sound from each speaker sounds as if it's a point source and so with that accuracy you really get the sound "hanging in the air" between them. I also rate Monitor Audio stuff, the Silver range is very good value for money and the floorstanders are surprisingly compact and smart looking.
I'd be tempted to get some £700-ish brand new speakers (avoids them turning up with damage to the drivers during transit), a £300-400 amplifier second hand from eBay, and spend the rest on some new CDs to listen to!
You could give a set of Tannoy XT6Fs and a Linn Majik or Arcam A85/A90 or FMJ a go? Or stick with NAD for power, the new direct digital amplifiers are meant to be very, very good.
Thank you for a very helpful post, along with other posters.Given my experience with hifi, I'm a great believer in balance. Unless you have plans on spending even more money on source and amplification, I wouldn't spend £1200 on a pair of speakers for the Marantz and NAD.
It would be interesting to see if Richer Sounds would let you bring the amp and CD along to the listening room and put together a package by identifying what is the weak link. I suspect it's probably the speakers, followed by the amplifier. Those old Marantz CD players I think have the legendary Philips DAC in so I think you'd have to spend quite a bit to get a noticable improvement.
If you want a decent sound stage, I'm mightily impressed with my Tannoys with the dual concentric driver, the sound from each speaker sounds as if it's a point source and so with that accuracy you really get the sound "hanging in the air" between them. I also rate Monitor Audio stuff, the Silver range is very good value for money and the floorstanders are surprisingly compact and smart looking.
I'd be tempted to get some £700-ish brand new speakers (avoids them turning up with damage to the drivers during transit), a £300-400 amplifier second hand from eBay, and spend the rest on some new CDs to listen to!
You could give a set of Tannoy XT6Fs and a Linn Majik or Arcam A85/A90 or FMJ a go? Or stick with NAD for power, the new direct digital amplifiers are meant to be very, very good.
I enjoy soft rock as in Fleetwood Mac etc, Pink Floyd etc, Genisis, Killers, Elbow and along those sounds.
My equipment delivered what I feel was a softer sound when teamed with the original Tannoys,It also gave musical presence, a good balance of tone without masking the top end.Since changing from Tannoy to Quad speakers I seem to have lost that
When I purchased my NAD and Marantz back in the early 1980’s I teamed them with Tannoy gold!! Sounded a real treat, sadly they came to the end of days about 7 years back. I replaced them with the Quads which I have not enjoyed half as much.
I fully intend to keep the NAD and Marantz on reading posts here and elsewhere along with reviews of new equipment taking into consideration cost. Also, to be very honest. they are old pals, I know that sounds daft but I don’t think I could part with them now!
Thinking it through spending well over 1k on untested speakers could be a risk, although no doubt fantastic equipment they may not suit my listening requirement.
Before I jump in it must be wise if I ask dealer if they would mind demo speakers to my old NAD and go from ther
TonyRPH said:
The NAD 3130 is 30w per channel - grossly under rated for most of the speakers recommended above.
Firstly - are your speakers wired in phase???
OP, I suspect you would get more of an improvement simply upgrading your amp.
It was essentially a budget amp back in the day (one step up from the "legendary" 3020 IIRC).
You could pick up a NAD C352 off Ebay for around £300 and that would offer a far more useful 80w RMS per channel and probably wake your speakers up a bit too.
And if that still wasn't enough, you'd still have money left in your budget for a speaker upgrade (which I don't think is necessary) or to add a decent DAC.
The Marantz CD player does indeed have the "legendary" TDA1541 DAC chip, however my experience of that chip is that it can sound a bit thin in the wrong system.
I have a Sony CDP227ESD with dual 1541 DAC chips and that sounds pretty good compared to other (single DAC) players I've tried.
Another good amp worthy of mention is the Marantz PM7200 which can also be had from Ebay for around £350.
I've had both the above amps in the past, and they do sound good.
NAD 3130 spec:
EDIT
The Quad 21L specs look pretty good too (I know specs don't tell the full story) but they look to have pretty good bass extension.
It’s really interesting to read this different approach to improving my current sound. Thank you.Firstly - are your speakers wired in phase???
OP, I suspect you would get more of an improvement simply upgrading your amp.
It was essentially a budget amp back in the day (one step up from the "legendary" 3020 IIRC).
You could pick up a NAD C352 off Ebay for around £300 and that would offer a far more useful 80w RMS per channel and probably wake your speakers up a bit too.
And if that still wasn't enough, you'd still have money left in your budget for a speaker upgrade (which I don't think is necessary) or to add a decent DAC.
The Marantz CD player does indeed have the "legendary" TDA1541 DAC chip, however my experience of that chip is that it can sound a bit thin in the wrong system.
I have a Sony CDP227ESD with dual 1541 DAC chips and that sounds pretty good compared to other (single DAC) players I've tried.
Another good amp worthy of mention is the Marantz PM7200 which can also be had from Ebay for around £350.
I've had both the above amps in the past, and they do sound good.
NAD 3130 spec:
EDIT
The Quad 21L specs look pretty good too (I know specs don't tell the full story) but they look to have pretty good bass extension.
Edited by TonyRPH on Thursday 21st December 21:41
I know that all of you guys know your stuff, hence my questions in here.
This different approach has really got me thinking, but I don’t feel that I. hold part with my 3130
amp, oh god this may mean having it as a spare. Am I entering the World of Hi - Fi? I think I must be.
OP, not sure if you saw my earlier suggestion, but have you checked your speakers are wired in phase?
Your description of the sound suggests they might not be.
You want to ensure that (+) (RED) on the amp goes to the corresponding (+) on the speakers and likewise with (-) (BLACK).
Of course if the (+) is correct then the (-) will be too!
Apologies if I'm teaching you to suck eggs here - but this is something that is often overlooked in my experience.
Additionally, if you stand near to a speaker does the bass improve?
Does the bass seem to weaken as you walk to the middle of the two speakers?
Your description of the sound suggests they might not be.
You want to ensure that (+) (RED) on the amp goes to the corresponding (+) on the speakers and likewise with (-) (BLACK).
Of course if the (+) is correct then the (-) will be too!
Apologies if I'm teaching you to suck eggs here - but this is something that is often overlooked in my experience.
Additionally, if you stand near to a speaker does the bass improve?
Does the bass seem to weaken as you walk to the middle of the two speakers?
[^^^^^^
Checked the phasing and all is correct.
Checked the sound as suggested, the bass improves as I approach the speakers, standing in between them. Also a marked improvement in the depth and clarity as I approach the speakers, nearest I can discribe is like music in the room next door and then open the door, not just louder but better quality also.
Checked the phasing and all is correct.
Checked the sound as suggested, the bass improves as I approach the speakers, standing in between them. Also a marked improvement in the depth and clarity as I approach the speakers, nearest I can discribe is like music in the room next door and then open the door, not just louder but better quality also.
As Tony is alluding to, it may be possible to bring about some of the improvements you're searching for by optimising your current setup.
The speakers, the listening room, the speaker's position in the room relative to boundaries, the speaker's position ( toe in angle ) and the listener's position in the room all have significant influences on the final sound. Measurements and listening tests show these factors have a far higher influence than the amp and CD player have. ( assuming CD and amp are both working correctly ). The peaks and troughs caused by a bad room, bad positioning of the speakers and or listener will be
If you are able to move the position of the speakers out into the middle room, place them close together (4-5 feet apart ) and then sit in a position where you are 4-5 feet from the speakers you will be able to hear more of what the amp, CD and speakers are doing and far less of what the room is contributing. The speakers should be angled inwards too so you are looking directly at the drivers and you should be sat down so that your head height is halfway between the woofer and tweeter.
Listening in the 'nearfield' will tell you whether or not you're happy with the sound's balance, clarity, dynamics etc. If the system still doesn't have the drama you're looking for then its time to try out alternative products. Do you have a mate (or mates) who would lend you their amp and/or speakers for a few days?
The speakers, the listening room, the speaker's position in the room relative to boundaries, the speaker's position ( toe in angle ) and the listener's position in the room all have significant influences on the final sound. Measurements and listening tests show these factors have a far higher influence than the amp and CD player have. ( assuming CD and amp are both working correctly ). The peaks and troughs caused by a bad room, bad positioning of the speakers and or listener will be
If you are able to move the position of the speakers out into the middle room, place them close together (4-5 feet apart ) and then sit in a position where you are 4-5 feet from the speakers you will be able to hear more of what the amp, CD and speakers are doing and far less of what the room is contributing. The speakers should be angled inwards too so you are looking directly at the drivers and you should be sat down so that your head height is halfway between the woofer and tweeter.
Listening in the 'nearfield' will tell you whether or not you're happy with the sound's balance, clarity, dynamics etc. If the system still doesn't have the drama you're looking for then its time to try out alternative products. Do you have a mate (or mates) who would lend you their amp and/or speakers for a few days?
Edited by Crackie on Saturday 23 December 22:20
Thanks Tony and cracki.
My room is 25’ x15’
The speakers are poorly placed and spaced at the moment, I will have a move around of them and see if I can find that elusive spot of positioning. As I mentioned earlier when I pLaced myself in etween the speakers and on adjusting my distance to / from the speakers the sound stage definitely improved/ deteriorates. Maybe onto something here it seems. I will post back on results later.
Thanks again to all contributes
My room is 25’ x15’
The speakers are poorly placed and spaced at the moment, I will have a move around of them and see if I can find that elusive spot of positioning. As I mentioned earlier when I pLaced myself in etween the speakers and on adjusting my distance to / from the speakers the sound stage definitely improved/ deteriorates. Maybe onto something here it seems. I will post back on results later.
Thanks again to all contributes
crankedup said:
Or to put it more accurately entering 21st century.
Seriously my dear old NAD amp 3130 has given sterling service and a recent upgrade and repair likely means another 30 years service possible.
My Marantz cd 65DX player has also and still is offering its best.
Teamed with a pair of floor standers that I purchased 2nd hand QUAD 21L which are sort of ok.
I would like to improve the sound quality, presently it is a little thin with no real punch, wispy washy. I feel sure it’s the speakers that I should consider replacing, but with what?
I am not afraid to go used market to perhaps secure better quality for my budget.
Budget around 1200 pounds or so.
Any advise links appreciated.
Keep the speakers, add a Yamaha R-N803D, which is a cracking amp, with lots of wireless features. Seriously my dear old NAD amp 3130 has given sterling service and a recent upgrade and repair likely means another 30 years service possible.
My Marantz cd 65DX player has also and still is offering its best.
Teamed with a pair of floor standers that I purchased 2nd hand QUAD 21L which are sort of ok.
I would like to improve the sound quality, presently it is a little thin with no real punch, wispy washy. I feel sure it’s the speakers that I should consider replacing, but with what?
I am not afraid to go used market to perhaps secure better quality for my budget.
Budget around 1200 pounds or so.
Any advise links appreciated.
Then if you want more umphhh look at a small Rel sub.
If you don't need the streaming stuff, the Yamaha A-S501 can be had for around £220.
The speakers are great, but the 3010 Nad won't be able to drive them.
Edited by gizlaroc on Friday 22 December 16:48
Gassing Station | Home Cinema & Hi-Fi | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff