How do I front-end ms sequel?

[ro_torque]

I have been working with database technologies for years, but unfortunately only niche market products not mainstream. So I understand the concept of relational databases. I want to learn: How to front end ms sequel with web pages. This may sound like a ridiculous goal. Assuming I have a considerable amount of time to devote to “playing” with this, can anyone give me a steer on what I need to do to get to my goal.

Do I need to learn VB .Net? I don’t know VB at all so where would be a good place to start, books, software or courses? What don’t I know? What do I need to buy?

Any suggestions gratefully received.

Thanks

[gopher]

You can use MS Sql from asp (vbscript or jscript) or use ado.net via asp.net (any .net language)or any other languageos that has drivers

I would choose the languageos you want to use then go from there.

Once done, look for things such as connection and command objects for language you are using as well as the data objects (such as recordsets, datatables, datasets etc) that the data will be returned in.

I've built many a web app based on MS Sql DB's and am more than happy to help where possible, drop me a line if you have any specific questions.

Cheers

Paul

[victormeldrew]

I'm just starting out with vb.net, also from a niche database background. Its actually not that difficult to grasp, probably more so if you were already a Windows coder (its a mindset shift from VB6, but IMHO simpler to grasp).

I started out with Professional vb.net 2003 from Wrox, and DataBase Programming with Visual Basic .net from apress. These were a pretty good start for me (though the index in the second book is wrong, which is a pain). Obviously you'll need visual studio .net (though vb.net will do if you are only going to use MS SQL).

A decent web connection is a must, you'll spend a lot of time trawling the internet for solutions to problems. There's a lot of stuff out there.

>> Edited by victormeldrew on Saturday 16th April 23:35

[lanciachris]

Why would you want to create a web front end? plus youd never be able to make anything 'good' even if you dedicated years to it.

[gopher]

lanciachris said:

Why would you want to create a web front end? plus youd never be able to make anything 'good' even if you dedicated years to it.

I was under the impression that he wanted to supply an MS SQL based db driven web site, not provide an enterprise manager type app for MS SQL - although now you've put that idea in my head...

[dilbert]

lanciachris said:

Why would you want to create a web front end? plus youd never be able to make anything 'good' even if you dedicated years to it.

[sarcasm]Ahh well you see that's because web browsers were designed to produce a functionally rich, graphically diverse user interface.[/sarcasm]

I agree with you my freind. Thousands wouldn't.

You just have to look at the public sector to find technonumpties, that think the universal solution to their problems, comes through a web browser.

I think most vendors have given up now. They just keep selling variations on the same webby theme in the hope that one day they might get it right!

[gopher]

I think he wants to drive a website using an "Sequel" backend, what's the issue?

[dilbert]

gopher said:

I think he wants to drive a website using an "Sequel" backend, what's the issue?

No problem at all. I've just seen too many people demand that a solution has to be web based, and then complain that it's too limited.

Usually the programmer gets the stick, because the browser is a limiting factor.

I suppose that I'm advocating an approach where one works out what one wants to do, and then chooses the best technology to implement it. From what I've seen, that doesn't happen very much.

I'm not suggesting that this is what the original poster is doing, but clearly my cynicism preceeds me. Sorry.

Edited to add;

The other one is where the customer demands a web based interface because that's what everyone else is doing. He's happy that it doesn't do what was needed because he was the one that got to spend the money.

The final one (probably hasn't happened much yet, but I can see it coming) is where the customer didn't know it was possible to have anything other than a web based application but demanded one anyhow. This is despite his competitor having a fully bespoke system constantly changing and updating to suit the developing needs of the business.

And yes folks, that's why we Brits are loosing out to the Far East.

>> Edited by dilbert on Sunday 17th April 01:19

[dilbert]

I suppose I ought to answer the question really.

Personally, I'd write a cgi binary using good old fashioned stdin and stdout streams. Using the wealth of functionality for dealing with MS SQL from C++. I'd implement any calls, passing the SQL command strings, using the one of the many libraries.

I would be able to use HTTP GET and POST, and I'd be able to format my own web pages to return to the client browser. I'd have the opportnity to distibute multiple databases across multiple machines, and access them concurrently, without having to worry if I would get the performance I wanted from a multiprocessor motherboard and server software, that might not unify in the same way when the hardware is found to be underperforming, and is changed.

I'd be able to independantly communicate with Client side Java applets by TCP.

Obviously I could also do this using ASP.net (who knows, I don't, but I'm sure MS Gurus will say you can).

What I've still not figured out, is why we need ASP.

Is it to make my hard earned knowledge, of all these things and more, yesterdays junk?

Or is it to make everybody buy more hardware than they really need?

Maybe it's because MS are beginning to feel the pinch from their competitors, and they need a .Net diversion?

[ro_torque]

gopher said:

I think he wants to drive a website using an "Sequel" backend, what's the issue?

I you have understood my requirements. Although, the other points raised are valid. I didn’t mean to create a contentious debate. The question arises out of interest in the technology and a desire to understand how things work.

Perhaps I should have asked the following: What is the best way to learn VB dot net and what do I have to buy to achieve this?.................

How do I create forms that can access ms sequel database tables? Should I use vb6 or vb.net or vb*? These products seem to be very expensive for an individual to buy; so what is the best option?

Thanks to "all" for the foregoing.

Ro

[Mark.S]

dilbert said:

Personally, I'd write a cgi binary using good old fashioned stdin and stdout streams. Using the wealth of functionality for dealing with MS SQL from C++. I'd implement any calls, passing the SQL command strings, using the one of the many libraries.

You COULD also write it in assembly, but why on earth would you? VB, ASP, C# etc are tools to make it easier to complete specific tasks.

[Mark.S]

ro_torque said:

How do I create forms that can access ms sequel database tables? Should I use vb6 or vb.net or vb*? These products seem to be very expensive for an individual to buy; so what is the best option?

There are plenty of free tools around to get you started. Sharpcode is supposed to be a pretty good free IDE for developing c# and vb.net. Alternately if you want to explore the web based stuff try Web Matrix, a free ASP.NET IDE.

www.icsharpcode.net/OpenSource/SD/
www.asp.net

Likewise there are thousands of sites with articles and samples to get you started. That said, it would probably be best to get the basics by working through a beginners book. Wrox Press have dozens, as do Microsoft. Put VB.NET into Amazon and take your pick.

www.4guysfromrolla.com
www.csharpfriends.com
www.codeproject.com

[gopher]

If you are a beginner take a look at the express editions
Express

These are currently in Beta (in fact they are nearly a year old) you can write full blown apps, websites, services etc using vb.net and use SQL2005 express Database - this is a limited version of the full blown SQL 2005 product. (the limits are not an issue for the market it is aimed at).

Although in Beta (and free) at the moment it is predicted that the cost of the release version will be either very low or free.

The express versions use version 2 of the framework which is also in beta but the SDK is very usefull as it allows you explore in detail the very rich classes that already exist. You can download this Here

If you want to go down the .Net route the important thing to do is to learn the libraries, it will save you a huge amount of time in the long run.

It's a shame that MS did not think about these products with version 1.1 framework but I supppose they had to start somewhere, it just means that people will have to code with a Beta product (which is stable, but may change in the release) until the release. It will make for a good start tho'

As has been mentioned explor the web there is a huge amount of resources around, but it certainly does not have to be expensive.

Cheers

Paul

[ro_torque]

Thanks again for all the above. I will have fun looking at the links and learning.

Cheers

Ro

[Don]

lanciachris said:

Why would you want to create a web front end? plus youd never be able to make anything 'good' even if you dedicated years to it.

Relatively easy to deploy. Deployment is all.

It doesn't matter how hard to code, how devastatingly unproductive and environment is - if its easy to deploy you make all the money you spent back the first time the product goes out the door. Conversely - environments like VB (really productive but virtually undeployable) cost a fortune to support year after year...


Even web apps can have deployment nightmares...


I appreciate your point completely BTW - "thick" clients allow for hugely rich user interfaces which are phenomenally difficult - and even impossible - to do in "thin" versions...

But you can't sell an app these days if it doesn't work in a browser. Simple as that.

[dilbert]

Mark.S said:

dilbert said: Personally, I'd write a cgi binary using good old fashioned stdin and stdout streams. Using the wealth of functionality for dealing with MS SQL from C++. I'd implement any calls, passing the SQL command strings, using the one of the many libraries. You COULD also write it in assembly, but why on earth would you? VB, ASP, C# etc are tools to make it easier to complete specific tasks.

Trying my hardest not to be contentious, C++ isn't exactly assembler. In fact I'm still trying to figure why it is that C# deserves a position as a more absracted language than it.

What I am clear about, is that with C++ I can connect to ad-hoc functionality that isnt provided by MS. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with MS stuff, in fact it's pretty darn good, but it does seem that people have a very "blinkered" view these days.

There are other communities in the world, which are going to do far better in the long run. To a certain degree they already are by using what's good abut MS, but not being tied down by them.

If software engineering in this country is not to go the way of Rover, the decisions that are made now need to take the future into account.

Ultimately, however, every individual must make their own choices about their direction. If you suggest that I am stupid for taking the view that I do, I suggest you aren't looking at the whole picture.

[m12_nathan]

If you think a browser can't render a decent gui take a look at the web interface for MOM or, or course, outlook web access.

If you are starting from scratch with a .net language I'd go for c#, most of the documentation for the framework is documented using c# examples.

[lanciachris]

Looks like i misunderstood this - I thought it was asking 'how can i create a web version of enterprise manager?'.

Database operations in a .net web app is trivial.

SqlCommand doStuff = new SqlCommmand( "aconnectionstring" );
doStuff.CommandType = CommandType.Text;
doStuff.CommandText = "Select * from yourbankaccount into mypocket where balance > 0";
doStuff.Execute();

or something similar to that anyway. Dont have visual studio on my home pc to do its intellisense magic!

Theres really not much else to it, except to try and keep stuff in stored procedures etc. rather than building the sql in the web pages. How to use stored procedures instead?

doStuff.CommandType = CommandType.StoredProcedure;
doStuff.CommandText = "mysproc"
doStuff.SelectCommand.Parameters.Add("@cheeseburger", "with cheese" );