RX7 prices and pontential purchase

[CountZero23]

I'm considering an RX-7 and have found what looks to be a great example for sale here.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1992-Mazda-RX7-Type-R-F...

In fact, it has been a readers car of the week here.
https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-japanesecars/m...

I've not looked at RX-7 prices in a while and they seem to have shot up over the last year or two, was possible to get a decent one for 6/7k at one point but the market seems to be judging them more fairly of late.

While not concourse, this one looks well loved and only has a few tasteful upgrades and hasn't had a pimpled Fast and Furious fan ruin is a with a badly fitting body kit or far worse.

ITts a 1992 Mazda RX7 Type R (FD3S) with 68K Miles and a rebuild 7k miles ago. Is 13k a fair price for one now?

Mods, please can you leave this here for a bit as the jap stuff forum is pretty quiet!

[Nik da Greek]

I owned FD RX-7s for eleven years, from bone stock to massive spec single turbo



I wouldn't own another. Not at any money

[CountZero23]

Nik da Greek said:

I owned FD RX-7s for eleven years, from bone stock to massive spec single turbo

I wouldn't own another. Not at any money

Not the first person to tell me that

[e30m3Mark]

I walked away from a mint FB at £2k a couple of years ago.

Regrets, I've had a few….

I'd still like another FB but may need to import one.

[MikeGoodwin]

Nik da Greek said:

I owned FD RX-7s for eleven years, from bone stock to massive spec single turbo



I wouldn't own another. Not at any money

How come you say that if you don't mind me asking

[Nik da Greek]

Conversely, I've still got my FB and quite possibly will never get rid of it. A world apart from the FD in so many ways...

[Nik da Greek]

MikeGoodwin said:

Nik da Greek said:

I owned FD RX-7s for eleven years, from bone stock to massive spec single turbo



I wouldn't own another. Not at any money

How come you say that if you don't mind me asking

Quite simply because they're just not very good cars... or they are, it just depends what you're looking for. Getting the elephant out of the room straight away, forget everything you've heard about rotary unreliability. They're not unreliable. A naturally aspirated 12A such as in early RX-7s or RX-3s etc will do 100l miles without any drama at all. Even a 13B such as in am FC RX-7 will be flawless well into five figures. What goes wrong is the extreme heat from turbocharging them and trying to fool an emissions/packaging equation. A rotary makes stupid heat when turbocharged, due to the three power "strokes" per revolution. The cooling package on an FD is barely adequate for an N/A rotary, let alone a twin turbocharged one. So, if you want performance and longevity you're straight away looking at uprating the intercooler and radiator. Keep it stock and it will die, not if, not maybe, but when. So straight away the "I want to keep it stock" ideal is in a dead-end of contradiction

leaving aside the keeping it alive conundrum, they're just not well made. The interior is made of eggboxes... later ones are better but if you're used to European levels of fit, finish and trim then you're going to be angry. They rust... I know all cars rust but somehow the FD has a reputation that it doesn't. It does. Really, it does. They bang and crash and flap about like a prick in a shirtsleeve over anything but smooth roads, and the more it is removed from stock suspension and bushing-wise, the worse it becomes. The stock exhaust is terrible and ruins performance and response, but change it for pretty much anything and you'll have tinnitus and your neighbours will be getting a petition about you...

On the days they work perfectly, the road's right for the car and everything's in harmony there's little that can touch one for thrills and bang per buck. But the days when they won't start, fk about and generally behave like a sulky teenager far outweigh the good days. Mostly what killed it for me was just the build quality though. They're just st, really st. I can't overemphasize enough how st they are. I never mind fixing stuff and tinkering, it's part of why I love cars, but when you're fixing the same damned things over and over again, knowing that sooner or later they'll break again, it just wears you out. Add in the increasing scarcity of parts and the stupid prices charged by the vampires that infect the Jap scene in general and the utter parasites that infest the RX-7 scene in particular and it's a recipe for considerable resentment every time you have to source anything. Consider that Mazda no longer make rotor housings for 13Bs... not even sure if they still support the Renesis motor in RX-8s... so the only engine housings that will ever exist are currently in existence today. Tomorrow there'll be fewer...



Brilliant cars, I don't regret owning mine at all, but so hopelessly flawed. If they weren't potentially so good it wouldn't be so upsetting how imperfect they are. If you want one, buy the very latest model you possibly can, preferably a 1999-on model fresh from Japan. Don't buy one in the UK, it'll be a minger that's been hacked about.... Rogue86's one in the OP ad is a very rare example of a near-stocker. Most are not! Hoard engine parts; you'll need them and by the time you realise it they may already be beyond reach

[CountZero23]

Nik da Greek said:

Brilliant cars, I don't regret owning mine at all, but so hopelessly flawed. If they weren't potentially so good it wouldn't be so upsetting how imperfect they are. If you want one, buy the very latest model you possibly can, preferably a 1999-on model fresh from Japan. Don't buy one in the UK, it'll be a minger that's been hacked about.... Rogue86's one in the OP ad is a very rare example of a near-stocker. Most are not! Hoard engine parts; you'll need them and by the time you realise it they may already be beyond reach

Nik, do you know much about Rogue86's RX-7?

I stumbled on his build thread when I was doing some research last night, that thread along with the fact he's a fellow PH'r do give me a fair bit more confidence than just a well-written advert on e-bay.

Regarding the price, they have moved so much in the last few years - do you think his figure of £12,995 is fair at current market rates?

Comes across on text and on his posts and as a decent bloke who's being honest about his car.

Cheers!

[MikeGoodwin]

Nik da Greek said:

Quite simply because they're just not very good cars... or they are, it just depends what you're looking for. Getting the elephant out of the room straight away, forget everything you've heard about rotary unreliability. They're not unreliable. A naturally aspirated 12A such as in early RX-7s or RX-3s etc will do 100l miles without any drama at all. Even a 13B such as in am FC RX-7 will be flawless well into five figures. What goes wrong is the extreme heat from turbocharging them and trying to fool an emissions/packaging equation. A rotary makes stupid heat when turbocharged, due to the three power "strokes" per revolution. The cooling package on an FD is barely adequate for an N/A rotary, let alone a twin turbocharged one. So, if you want performance and longevity you're straight away looking at uprating the intercooler and radiator. Keep it stock and it will die, not if, not maybe, but when. So straight away the "I want to keep it stock" ideal is in a dead-end of contradiction

leaving aside the keeping it alive conundrum, they're just not well made. The interior is made of eggboxes... later ones are better but if you're used to European levels of fit, finish and trim then you're going to be angry. They rust... I know all cars rust but somehow the FD has a reputation that it doesn't. It does. Really, it does. They bang and crash and flap about like a prick in a shirtsleeve over anything but smooth roads, and the more it is removed from stock suspension and bushing-wise, the worse it becomes. The stock exhaust is terrible and ruins performance and response, but change it for pretty much anything and you'll have tinnitus and your neighbours will be getting a petition about you...

On the days they work perfectly, the road's right for the car and everything's in harmony there's little that can touch one for thrills and bang per buck. But the days when they won't start, fk about and generally behave like a sulky teenager far outweigh the good days. Mostly what killed it for me was just the build quality though. They're just st, really st. I can't overemphasize enough how st they are. I never mind fixing stuff and tinkering, it's part of why I love cars, but when you're fixing the same damned things over and over again, knowing that sooner or later they'll break again, it just wears you out. Add in the increasing scarcity of parts and the stupid prices charged by the vampires that infect the Jap scene in general and the utter parasites that infest the RX-7 scene in particular and it's a recipe for considerable resentment every time you have to source anything. Consider that Mazda no longer make rotor housings for 13Bs... not even sure if they still support the Renesis motor in RX-8s... so the only engine housings that will ever exist are currently in existence today. Tomorrow there'll be fewer...



Brilliant cars, I don't regret owning mine at all, but so hopelessly flawed. If they weren't potentially so good it wouldn't be so upsetting how imperfect they are. If you want one, buy the very latest model you possibly can, preferably a 1999-on model fresh from Japan. Don't buy one in the UK, it'll be a minger that's been hacked about.... Rogue86's one in the OP ad is a very rare example of a near-stocker. Most are not! Hoard engine parts; you'll need them and by the time you realise it they may already be beyond reach

Appreciate that. Always good when you get a lengthy opinion. I've always looked at these with rose tinted glasses I guess like I do the r33 GTR. But look at the prices of those now. And would they be worth that money? Doubt it...

[e30m3Mark]

Nik da Greek said:

Conversely, I've still got my FB and quite possibly will never get rid of it. A world apart from the FD in so many ways...

Any pics of the FB?

[ZX10R NIN]

The price seems there or thereabouts for a decent FD they are good cars but the cooling (as stated above) is definitely something that was a problem.

Go in with your eyes open & you will have a very enjoyable car, when you have a toy you will always spend money maintaining it as long as you accept this then the smiles per mile ratio increases exponentially.

[NickM450]

Oi! Don't you dare buy that car, I've been eyeing it for the past week or so

Really love the look and sound of these and that car does seem to be well priced and a nice specification. Does have a turbo control problem though I believe, resulting in just 200bhp on the primary. The seller does say he's been quoted £175 to replace an actuator, which if that is what the problem is then it's a cheap fix.

Still a lovely looking thing though, wish my house sale would go through fairly sharpish so I can get on and buy a car

[Nik da Greek]

e30m3Mark said:

Nik da Greek said:

Conversely, I've still got my FB and quite possibly will never get rid of it. A world apart from the FD in so many ways...

Any pics of the FB?

Most are still on Photobucket


2 lights by Nick Liassides, on Flickr


Bay nearside by Nick Liassides, on Flickr

I think given how much time and effort Rogue86 put into his, that's a fair asking price in the current market. If I were to buy one, I'd want one like that... more or less stock and from an intelligent owner who's looked after it. I'd expect a compression test before buying any rotary but it's not the be-all and end-all... overall condition is massively important too.

Prices are definitely on the up and rightly so; a lot of the really lashed-up barried ones that came in on the tail end of the grey import boom have met their inevitable fate and the ones that have survived are the decent ones. Mostly. I'd still be looking for a more or less stock one, improve the intercooler and radiator, put in a decent ECU (NOT an APEXi!) and then leave it well alone. All too easy to get carried away with "improvements" and before you know where you are you've basically made a handgrenade with the pin out. I mention the ECU not to recommend chasing power figures but because the standard ECU is neither clever nor fast enough to really offer enough defence against knock which will kill a rotary engine in seconds. A decent one like a Link or Haltech will save your engine if it leans out enough to suffer det

[philwhite]

If you're handy with a spanner (which I'm not) and aren't using it daily, then I would recommend one. However, I can somewhat echo Nik's comments, I had an RX7 Type RS for nearly 5 years and it was ruinously expensive, I remember suspension bushes being the worst, I daily'd mine covering some poor roads and the rear knocking sound was an almost continuous companion. I spent a fortune chasing rust that just kept returning. The ECU blew costing me almost a grand. The oil pressure gauge kept failing despite replacing the sender multiple times. Mine only ever did 18mpg, whether I thrashed it or drove it like Miss Daisy. The 3,000 mile service intervals was also irritating as there are no specialists local to me; as such I always avoided using the car to save putting the miles on it, which started to make ownership feel pointless.

My wife basically gave me an ultimatum and mine had to go; I let it go when the market has bottomed out for probably a third of what it would be worth today. The GT86 that replaced it gives me some of the experience without the associated issues, but I can't say that I don't miss it. If I had the money and space, a Spirit R would be in my garage.

Say all that, when the stars are in alignment and everything works like it should, they're one of the best motoring experiences I've ever had, the performance and handling is fantastic; even compared to current cars. I'm sure the Golf R, S3, M135 and co would struggle to keep up with one. They are also one of the most beautiful cars ever made and an icon of the 90's.

NickM450 said:

Does have a turbo control problem though I believe, resulting in just 200bhp on the primary. The seller does say he's been quoted £175 to replace an actuator, which if that is what the problem is then it's a cheap fix.

I'd worry about this, if it's such a simple fix why hasn't the current owner addressed it? Sounds like the classic 'AC just needs a re-gas' line! I had a few turbo issues with my RX7 and they were a bugger to diagnose and fix! Look up the schematic for the 'rats nest', it's enough to give you nightmares!

Nik - Love the FB, stunning!

Edited by philwhite on Wednesday 27th December 09:14

[e30m3Mark]

More love for your FB here.

I had an '86 FB in that same colour blue. C984 DKP I think? I also had a '79 FB with no rear spoiler, OE 13'' alloys and metallic green paint. I imagine it would be pretty rare nowadays.

[CountZero23]

Some fantastic advice and fair warnings.

I've essentially sold myself on the idea though Rogue86, unfortunately, had an accident in his on Christmas day and looks like it could be a write-off. Nothing on the market which comes close, certainly not for my budget.

It's either playing the waiting game or getting and cheap unloved / barried car and spending the savings putting it right. I buy the seller as much as the car and none of the adverts for the cheaper ones fill me with much confidence.

I'd rather avoid the time and aggravation in bringing a bad car up to a decent standard and buy one which is clean and doesn't throw up many surprises.

[e30m3Mark]

Any suggestions re best place to find an FB?

[Nik da Greek]

e30m3Mark said:

Any suggestions re best place to find an FB?

'Murica if you don't mind a LHD. They sold eleventy million there and got the best models such as the superb GSL-SE. In Britain we never even got an FB with a 13B engine, they stayed 12A carburetted to the bitter end. Aus or south Africa are good for RHD models although the Aussie guys know what they're worth nowadays and charge accordingly.

UK ones are at the point where they all need/have had welding and will probably need it again. Honestly, they rust so fast you can hear it Gone are the days of buying a £100 bucket of cack on eBay, even utter wrecks that are way beyond repair are being flogged as patinated "project" cars at a couple of grand when they're only fit as parts donors.

Short answer; if you don't want to import one then be prepared to search for a loooooong time to find a good 'un. And to pay a good few grand for one

[e30m3Mark]

I'm happy enough with LHD (My E30 is LHD) so import is fine by me. I guess sunshine states are the best option?

[rotarymazda]

philwhite said:

If you're handy with a spanner (which I'm not) and aren't using it daily, then I would recommend one. However, I can somewhat echo Nik's comments, I had an RX7 Type RS for nearly 5 years and it was ruinously expensive

Had my unmodified 2000 RS for eleven years and ~35K miles, no reliability problems. I do 3K per year, servicing is £300 (Jimmys). Tyres/brakes last 20K miles. 18mpg is typical, 20+ on a run. Insurance £175 (classic policy). So it's expensive if you want to do a lot of miles, not if you just do 3K/yr.

I went for a series 8 cars (1999+) as they have better cooling and a simplified rats-nest.

It was a daily and never let me down but the kids are now too big to fit in the back so it's getting little use now.