It Doesn't matters, It's not the bike/kit you have...

[bagusbagus]

https://www.gribble.org/cycling/power_v_speed.html
Probably the best cycling app there is to see how weight/dynamics affects your performance,spend 30minutes comparing different things there and you will come to revelation...

In short, save your pennies it's all damn marketing hype/tricks..You can't really re-invent a bicycle (unless its an e-bike )

-Want to go fast?
Get in a good aero position to achieve the least surface contact area,
after you go past 15km/h it's all about aero (Mostly Aero OF YOU (~80%) , not the bike(~20%)
Under 15km/h it's all about the tyres you have, so the only thing you should invest in is a good set of tyres with good rolling resistance,
you can find info about most of the tyres here with all data: https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com

-Wear good fitting clothes( don't need any special stuff) , loose some weight of yourself( less aero drag), and you will be just as fast on a cheap $50 Used 15kg mtb with NICE tyres ( Yes,just the tyres not some expensive Rims) than someone on a 7kg $5k bike wearing ridiculous outfit - as long as you have the same Aero Drag and aren't going up-hills.

-Going up-hills? Again a heavy MTB with GOOD tyres + Taking a poop before you set off will give almost the same results (2-3% difference) The weight of your bike/kit ONLY matters when you go up a hill (barely), in straights- almost 0 difference.

-Still Getting anxious about the weight of your bike/kit? It's not actually the weight of the bike.. It's The Weight of YOU+ the Bike, count those 2 together and you will realise that Just taking a poop or eating 2 less Doughnuts before you get on a bike is a much better strategy than spending money to reduce the weight of the bike.

• Does not applies to Pro-Racers which you see on TV (maybe 0.001% of all cyclists? ), the kit actually gives an edge over others (2-5% gain ,perhaps in most cases?)

So Unless you are one of those, Just Play around with your Data and see for yourself that it's all pointless.
Just go out and Enjoy cycling.

[E65Ross]

This is interesting too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfEGiYD7ECU

It isn't all about speed. A bike with nicer kit just feels nicer to ride. I've ridden road bikes from £300 up to about £4k, I'm not 10x quicker but the handling is nicer, the shifting is nicer, ergonomics are often much nicer....

Another interesting thing is I went from Fulcrum Racing 7 wheels to Shimano RS80 wheels on my bike and using the same tyres I was immediately between 0.5--1mph quicker on every single ride.

And aero wheels

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUdC3mrHcc8

[Hugo a Gogo]

I have to wonder, what does it actually achieve anyway, being a bit faster on the road, not in a competition? It doesn't make it any more fun, does it? And it's actually making riding easier for you, so less effective training/fitness

[E65Ross]

I dunno, I quite like the thrill over going quicker. Going 40mph on a downhill is much more fun than 25mph, for example! OK, differences wouldn't be that much but the point is the same. There's also something satisfying about getting a new PB on a route you do regularly, or setting a string of Strava PBs on a ride

I don't agree with the less effective training. Power is power. You just ride faster. If riding on slow bikes would make you faster the pro cyclists would all be doing that instead.

[yellowjack]

I just set a bunch of new Strava PRs today.

Slow as owt on the way out, but assisted on the return portion by a tidy 23 mph southerly wind. Smashed a time that had stood since late 2013 when I first got a Garmin too.

At first I thought "doesn't count really - wind assistance is cheating" but then I pulled myself together and said "damn it all - you fought your way through a headwind to earn that help on the way back, just smile and be thankful".

I kind of agree that speed is fun, and yes, zipping down a nice hill at 40 mph is far more enjoyable, and invigorating, than pootling down the same hill at 25 mph. But I also agree with the previous poster who said "...what does it actually achieve anyway, being a bit faster on the road, not in a competition?"

I love to ride. Sometimes I go faster, sometimes a lot slower. I just enjoy the riding as much as possible. Perception of effort is often similar for wildly different times on segments. Put that down to wind, wet surfaces, health and wellbeing, whatever. But in the end coming home to an upload devoid of PRs isn't any less enjoyable than nabbing a KOM really.

I've got a nice bike, a 2015 Trek Emonda SL 6 with full Ultegra group. Yet I'm pretty slow up hills, and at best I'm a 14 mph to 15 mph man at the moment when it comes to average speed. But it feels nice to be able to climb onto a nicer bike than I really need and put a decent effort in (by my own standards) on a fairly long run out.

So in pure performance terms, a nice bike and nice kit may well not make a great deal of difference to the numbers on a cold, soulless spreadsheet. But a nice bike and nice kit are often enough to make you smile inside, and may be enough to persuade you out onto the bike when you aren't feeling 100%, and that makes the extra you paid to buy it worth every penny in my book.

[BoRED S2upid]

be just as fast on a cheap $50 Used 15kg mtb with NICE tyres ( Yes,just the tyres not some expensive Rims) than someone on a 7kg $5k bike wearing ridiculous outfit - as long as you have the same Aero Drag and aren't going up-hills.

I’d be very surprised if that were true. For starters a 50dollar bike what’s that in English pounds £40? Is going to be utterly ste. Rusty chain gears that don’t work, worn bottom bracket etc... so it’s really not going to be a comparison to a high end road bike no matter what your wearing!


However. The rest of your post I do agree with spend £2k to loose 3kg off the weight of the bike or go on a diet it’s a lot cheaper until you get down to a very low body fat then your gonna have to go lightweight bike and carbon fibre shoes.

[citizenmtb]

Thankfully, GCN have tried it for us

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wdb7KEc7xJI

There are many reasons to ride an more expensive bike. I'd still rather have one.

[Herman Toothrot]

The mountain bike talk is complete and utter ste. Anyone who owns and rides a selection on mountain bikes that are designed for different things will know it's complete ste.

If I took my Commencal Supreme ~39lbs to Cwmcarn for example and tried to ride Twrch I would basically be going for a long and unpleasant walk for the vast majority of the time.

If I took my old Vitus Rapide ~20lbs I'd be going on a quick ride (with some sketchy DH moments).

A better bet would be a nice trail or AM bike. Ragley MmmBop I could ride up the hills and have fun going down~30lbs.

If I took anything under about £200 new I'd be doubtful if I would get round without significant mechanical failure.

Edited by Herman Toothrot on Monday 25th December 23:41

[bagusbagus]

Herman Toothrot said:

The mountain bike talk is complete and utter ste. Anyone who owns and rides a selection on mountain bikes that are designed for different things will know it's complete ste.

If I took my Commencal Supreme ~39lbs to Cwmcarn for example and tried to ride Twrch I would basically be going for a long and unpleasant walk for the vast majority of the time.

If I took my old Vitus Rapide ~20lbs I'd be going on a quick ride (with some sketchy DH moments).

A better bet would be a nice trail or AM bike. Ragley MmmBop I could ride up the hills and have fun going down~30lbs.

If I took anything under about £200 new I'd be doubtful if I would get round without significant mechanical failure.

Edited by Herman Toothrot on Monday 25th December 23:41

If your tyres & gearing would be the same on both bikes= you would be surprised at the ''difference''
Tyres ,Aero drag & Gearing to keep your cadence at an optimal level is stuff really that matters, the rest including weight.. well not so much.
Basic physics...explore the stuff in the website linked in 1st post.

[Herman Toothrot]

bagusbagus said:

If your tyres & gearing would be the same on both bikes= you would be surprised at the ''difference''
Tyres ,Aero drag & Gearing to keep your cadence at an optimal level is stuff really that matters, the rest including weight.. well not so much.
Basic physics...explore the stuff in the website linked in 1st post.

Do you actually cycle much and actually have experience or do you just read websites?

[mcelliott]

bagusbagus said:

Basic physics...explore the stuff in the website linked in 1st post.

Personally I'd rather just go out and ride my bike, but each to their own.

[Donbot]

I don't (personally) see the point in these MTB / Roadie comparisons for road riding over distances. Road bikes put you in a nice aero position, whereas a MTB won't unless you change the riding position to the point where it is no longer a good mountain bike. Riding longer distances sitting down on a MTB hurt my back, which doesn't happen now I ride road bikes.

[BenGismo]

Herman Toothrot said:

The mountain bike talk is complete and utter ste. Anyone who owns and rides a selection on mountain bikes that are designed for different things will know it's complete ste.

This is correct. ^^

Unfortunately the mathematical analysis has no bearing on reality where you are constantly going up and down 10mm high (micro) hills aka... rough ground. This occurs hundreds/thousands of times in an hour. This even occurs on the flat when riding on a mountain bike on anything other than tarmac. All this adds up - it wont show on the garmin/strava elevation but its there. Ive got a 15kg MTB and a 8kg one and I KNOW the lighter of the two is quicker and much nicer ride too. Feel free to provide a "formula" that contradicts it if you want but its utter rubbish in reality.

Those of us that do have multiple different bikes with various weights and values know the difference it makes.

[bakerstreet]

I'm not surprised by any of this.

I just bought myself a set of carbon bars from the far east on Ebay. Probabaly 100g lighter than the ones they are replacing. However, I don't buy them for the weight saving. After about an hour, I get numb hands on ali bars. Both the other bikes in the fleet are running carbon bars and I don't suffer numb hands with those. As a side note, both bars were about £40 on Ebay

My point is, not everything is bought to to be faster/lighter etc etc.

Do I want to go back to a 11kg Carrera TDF road bike, no I don't. I'll stick to my Fuji Transonic and the Giant Defy as a the winter bike.

[g7jhp]

To get faster you need to ride more. You can ride smarter using training tools like a power meter but you need to spend more time in the saddle.

Road bikes are lighter and help build endurance. My MTB feels far more like HIT training when you're having to spin in mud and fight for grip. Very different in their own ways.

But it's best to get out and enjoy it.

[Vantagemech]

What the juddering fk is that page supposed to prove?
In the real world, if I ride my 10kg carbon HT round the local forestry, Im faster and less tired than when hoofing the 13kg FS round it.

Yet I'd not get to the bottom of any of the reds at BPW without an incident on the HT... As said, horses for courses.

Plus I'd add that anyone that believes a sub £200 bike is as good when its nothing more than a BSO, tries riding it on the limit for a day..

Once you ride a decent bike you'd realise what your'e paying for, sure you can get down the hill, but in total control?

Watch some of Seths mtb reports. This one puts budget bikes in real situations, not theory on paper...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1A6bKUCcDW0

[idiotgap]

I put a few thousand miles on a £56 gumtree hybrid over the last year. I had to replace the tyres, not sure 32mm marathon plus count as nice, but although heavy they do roll and I haven't wasted time on punctures. I ride a relatively flat route, this bike is not as fast as a carbon road bike or an aluminium road bike, I can tell that because it takes me less time to cover the same route on those bikes. I wear the same clothes (well fitted lycra) on both and tried to adopt an aero position on the hybrid.

[Hugo a Gogo]

of course, if you want to go fast on your road bike, you don't need to follow UCI rules

or even

[oddball1313]

Why buy a car that does more than 70mph, why buy a house that has a bit more space than you actuallyneed, why spend money on nice tasty food when you could live on protein shakes and supplements. Why buy anything nice in fact as its clearly a waste of money. Why have aspirations and work hard?

Why not fk off and live in North Korea?

Stupid thread