HDMI expert required
Discussion
Hi there,
A quick question. I'm trying to think of a way to add a 4k HDR TV to my home setup while retaining my Denon AVR which is only HDMI 1.4.
I was thinking of using a 6x2 matrix and outputting to the TV and reciever separately.
I'm thinking though, that if eveything else on the matrix was HDMI 2.0/a/b the HDMI 1.4 of the reciever would drag the whole lot down back to the lowest common denominator.
Am I right or wrong with that one?
A quick question. I'm trying to think of a way to add a 4k HDR TV to my home setup while retaining my Denon AVR which is only HDMI 1.4.
I was thinking of using a 6x2 matrix and outputting to the TV and reciever separately.
I'm thinking though, that if eveything else on the matrix was HDMI 2.0/a/b the HDMI 1.4 of the reciever would drag the whole lot down back to the lowest common denominator.
Am I right or wrong with that one?
legzr1 said:
Most if not all UHD players have two HDMI outputs exactly for this reason - video to screen and audio (1.4) to receiver.
I was looking at this one: https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/tv-and-home-entertai... and it has the Video HDMI for 4k to the TV and an audio only 1.4 to the AV Amp.spudgun GB said:
Hi there,
A quick question. I'm trying to think of a way to add a 4k HDR TV to my home setup while retaining my Denon AVR which is only HDMI 1.4.
I was thinking of using a 6x2 matrix and outputting to the TV and reciever separately.
I'm thinking though, that if eveything else on the matrix was HDMI 2.0/a/b the HDMI 1.4 of the reciever would drag the whole lot down back to the lowest common denominator.
Am I right or wrong with that one?
I have been through this recently, adding an Apple TV 4K to a system with a HDMI 1.4 receiver and a new 4K/HDR TV.A quick question. I'm trying to think of a way to add a 4k HDR TV to my home setup while retaining my Denon AVR which is only HDMI 1.4.
I was thinking of using a 6x2 matrix and outputting to the TV and reciever separately.
I'm thinking though, that if eveything else on the matrix was HDMI 2.0/a/b the HDMI 1.4 of the reciever would drag the whole lot down back to the lowest common denominator.
Am I right or wrong with that one?
What I used was this splitter - it takes an input from the Apple TV and outputs 4K/HDR to the TV and full surround sound to the AVR:
https://www.cablesson.co.uk/catalogue/splitters/ca...
When I was looking into it, it appeared that there are only a very limited number of splitters that would do this, and most of them were much more expensive. The rest of the Cablesson range, for example, do not provide this function.
I am sure you could get a matrix that would do the same job, but when I looked it was almost as cheap to upgrade the AVR! If you have more than one 4K source, you could either buy a splitter for each or plug all of the sources into this and then the output into one splitter:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/LIGAWO-3090063-HDMI-Switc...
This one also passes 4K/HDR and I use it in my system, but I have never used it in series with the splitter. All of my other 4K sources have either got a second HDMI out or I just use optical for audio. There is no reason why it shouldn't work, but HDMI is a fussy connection....
thank you all for your inputs so for, pun intended.
I'm not trying to add a 4k bluray player to my current arrangemeny but get the best out of my PS4 pro and Xbox one S.
At the moment I have a single HDMI cable going to the TV from the AV reciever. The TV is wall mounted in a false wall and all the wiring is in trunking, so adding an extra HDMI cable to the screen is awkward but not impossible.
I have 6 HDMI devices cnnectted to the reciever 4 of which HDMI 1.4 is perfect for. The other two need an upgrade.
I almost need a 3 into one before the TV to cover the the AV output and the two HDMI 2.0 feeds and then two spltters after the consoles but before the AV reciever to feed the reciever and panel.
I'm also a bit concerned about HDCP and how all this will effect this arrangement. I don't know much about it.
I'm not trying to add a 4k bluray player to my current arrangemeny but get the best out of my PS4 pro and Xbox one S.
At the moment I have a single HDMI cable going to the TV from the AV reciever. The TV is wall mounted in a false wall and all the wiring is in trunking, so adding an extra HDMI cable to the screen is awkward but not impossible.
I have 6 HDMI devices cnnectted to the reciever 4 of which HDMI 1.4 is perfect for. The other two need an upgrade.
I almost need a 3 into one before the TV to cover the the AV output and the two HDMI 2.0 feeds and then two spltters after the consoles but before the AV reciever to feed the reciever and panel.
I'm also a bit concerned about HDCP and how all this will effect this arrangement. I don't know much about it.
Edited by spudgun GB on Tuesday 9th January 08:47
spudgun GB said:
thank you all for your inputs so for, pun intended.
I'm not trying to add a 4k bluray player to my current arrangemeny but get the best out of my PS4 pro and Xbox one S.
At the moment I have a single HDMI cable going to the TV from the AV reciever. The TV is wall mounted in a false wall and all the wiring is in trunking, so adding an extra HDMI cable to the screen is awkward but not impossible.
I have 6 HDMI devices cnnectted to the reciever 4 of which HDMI 1.4 is perfect for. The other two need an upgrade.
I almost need a 3 into one before the TV to cover the the AV output and the two HDMI 2.0 feeds and then two spltters after the consoles but before the AV reciever to feed the reciever and panel.
I'm also a bit concerned about HDCP and how all this will effect this arrangement. I don't know much about it.
Since you seem to be doing almost exactly what I have done with a very similar set of components, I'll leave a few details of my system here in case it is of any use.I'm not trying to add a 4k bluray player to my current arrangemeny but get the best out of my PS4 pro and Xbox one S.
At the moment I have a single HDMI cable going to the TV from the AV reciever. The TV is wall mounted in a false wall and all the wiring is in trunking, so adding an extra HDMI cable to the screen is awkward but not impossible.
I have 6 HDMI devices cnnectted to the reciever 4 of which HDMI 1.4 is perfect for. The other two need an upgrade.
I almost need a 3 into one before the TV to cover the the AV output and the two HDMI 2.0 feeds and then two spltters after the consoles but before the AV reciever to feed the reciever and panel.
I'm also a bit concerned about HDCP and how all this will effect this arrangement. I don't know much about it.
Edited by spudgun GB on Tuesday 9th January 08:47
I have a Denon X4000 AVR (HDMI 1.4) with a couple of HD sources going into it's HDMI inputs.
Since this won't pass 4K/HDR, I bought this switch:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/LIGAWO-3090064-HDMI-Switc...
I run an HDMI cable from the HDMI output from the Denon AVR into input 1 of this switch and another HDMI cable from the output of the switch into the HDMI input of my TV.
Then I started adding 4K sources:
Input 2 of the switch has a PS4 Pro connected to it, which is also connected by optical cable to the AVR to give surround sound.
Input 3 of the switch has an Xbox One X connected in exactly the same way as the PS4 Pro
Input 4 of the switch has a Samsung 4K Blu Ray player connected to it, which is also connected to the AVR by HDMI. This one is easy because the player has two HDMI outputs.
Input 5 of the switch has an Apple TV 4K connected to it. Since the ATV 4K doesn't have either a second HDMI output or optical, I have connected the Cablesson 1x2 splitter shown above between the Apple TV and the switch. One of the HDMI outputs goes to the switch for picture and the other goes to the AVR for sound.
The switch auto-switches between inputs when you turn on one of the connected items, but this set up confues that for certain inputs so I use a Harmony remote to tell the switch which input it needs to be on for each activity. It comes with it's own remote as well.
There are a few downsides:
1. PS4 Pro and Xbox One X cannot pass HD audio through optical. This doesn't matter for me as I only use them for gaming, but might do for you if you use them as a movie source.
2. Two extra power outlets are used and it is a bit of a mess of cables.
The upsides:
1. Cost compared to buying a new AVR. When I did this, my AVR was worth about £250 and the equivalent new one was £1,400. The switch and splitter cost me about £70 combined, and I spent about £20 on the extra HDMI cables, so it was a lot cheaper!
2. Convenience compared to running an extra HDMI cable to the TV. I have got a 5m cable buried in trunking in a solid wall, so it would be a lot of hassle to replace it. The cable must be 10 years old, so it is living on borrowed time, but it passes 4K/HDR fine, so I don't want to replace it unless I have to!
Thanks Kingston, that's really interesting.
I'm thinking then get a pair of those Cablesson splitters and a 3 x 1 hdmi switch. Put the switcher on the existing TV HDMI cable and the output from the AV on say input 1. Use the spillters as you have on your Apple TV to separate an audio signal for the reciever and still keep 4k for the switch.
The Cablesson splitters just work you say. No issues with HDMI 2.0b on one side and HDMI1.4 on the other? They seem like a brilliant solution.
Im going to need a few more HDMI cables as well then by the looks of it.
Switch wise, I might go for this:
https://www.lindy.co.uk/audio-video-c2/switches-c1...
They seem to be ahead of most covering 4k and HDR related switches.
I'm thinking then get a pair of those Cablesson splitters and a 3 x 1 hdmi switch. Put the switcher on the existing TV HDMI cable and the output from the AV on say input 1. Use the spillters as you have on your Apple TV to separate an audio signal for the reciever and still keep 4k for the switch.
The Cablesson splitters just work you say. No issues with HDMI 2.0b on one side and HDMI1.4 on the other? They seem like a brilliant solution.
Im going to need a few more HDMI cables as well then by the looks of it.
Switch wise, I might go for this:
https://www.lindy.co.uk/audio-video-c2/switches-c1...
They seem to be ahead of most covering 4k and HDR related switches.
Edited by spudgun GB on Tuesday 9th January 17:43
spudgun GB said:
Thanks Kingston, that's really interesting.
I'm thinking then get a pair of those Cablesson splitters and a 3 x 1 hdmi switch. Put the switcher on the existing TV HDMI cable and the output from the AV on say input 1. Use the spillters as you have on your Apple TV to separate an audio signal for the reciever and still keep 4k for the switch.
The Cablesson splitters just work you say. No issues with HDMI 2.0b on one side and HDMI1.4 on the other? They seem like a brilliant solution.
Im going to need a few more HDMI cables as well then by the looks of it.
Switch wise, I might go for this:
https://www.lindy.co.uk/audio-video-c2/switches-c1...
They seem to be ahead of most covering 4k and HDR related switches.
The Cablesson definitely works for me in that configuration, but if you do go for it, make sure you get that actual one, they do ones badged 4K2K as well which definitely won't work.I'm thinking then get a pair of those Cablesson splitters and a 3 x 1 hdmi switch. Put the switcher on the existing TV HDMI cable and the output from the AV on say input 1. Use the spillters as you have on your Apple TV to separate an audio signal for the reciever and still keep 4k for the switch.
The Cablesson splitters just work you say. No issues with HDMI 2.0b on one side and HDMI1.4 on the other? They seem like a brilliant solution.
Im going to need a few more HDMI cables as well then by the looks of it.
Switch wise, I might go for this:
https://www.lindy.co.uk/audio-video-c2/switches-c1...
They seem to be ahead of most covering 4k and HDR related switches.
Edited by spudgun GB on Tuesday 9th January 17:43
I didn't quite understand how it outputs to a HDMI 2.0 and HDMI 1.4 device at the same time, as I had previously been told I'd need invest in a much more expensive product from HD Fury to do that properly:
https://www.hdfury.com/product/avr-key/
I just use the latest-spec Amazon Basics HDMI cables. They are cheap, but seem well made and pass everything I have thrown at them.
The Lindy switch looks like it would do the job. I think they all come out of the same factory anyway as that remote looks remarkably similar to the one that came with my Ligawo switch!
Technically, HDMI 'should' pass info between devices so that the know what resolution to operate at without you having to change settings manually.
In some cases, splitters do not pass this info, or actively strip HDCP (Content Protection) which results in resolution not being passed as well. This is the only reasion I can think that it is work at both 4k and 1080p resolutions.
Unless, the HDMI spec allows AVR's to identify themselves as a device that only passes resolution settings from a connected screen, however if there is not active connection to the screen, the AVR may just ignor any video portion and deal with the audio only.
Interesting, I may have to ask a friend in the industry about that one.
V.
In some cases, splitters do not pass this info, or actively strip HDCP (Content Protection) which results in resolution not being passed as well. This is the only reasion I can think that it is work at both 4k and 1080p resolutions.
Unless, the HDMI spec allows AVR's to identify themselves as a device that only passes resolution settings from a connected screen, however if there is not active connection to the screen, the AVR may just ignor any video portion and deal with the audio only.
Interesting, I may have to ask a friend in the industry about that one.
V.
Thanks very much everyone.
Last night I spent the evening re-routing some HDMI cables to make the future upgrade easier to manage.
Next thing will be looking at some tellys I guess.
Just one last thing, Kingstone, do you notice a big difference between 4k and 1080p?
My viewing distance for my 50" screen is about 2.5 metres and I'm wondering if I will notice very much.
The HDR side of it may be another thing entirely.
Last night I spent the evening re-routing some HDMI cables to make the future upgrade easier to manage.
Next thing will be looking at some tellys I guess.
Just one last thing, Kingstone, do you notice a big difference between 4k and 1080p?
My viewing distance for my 50" screen is about 2.5 metres and I'm wondering if I will notice very much.
The HDR side of it may be another thing entirely.
spudgun GB said:
Just one last thing, Kingstone, do you notice a big difference between 4k and 1080p?
My viewing distance for my 50" screen is about 2.5 metres and I'm wondering if I will notice very much.
The HDR side of it may be another thing entirely.
Like everything, there is good and bad 4K. Done well, it can be stunning, other times you will hardly notice the difference between 4K and HD. Same with HDR.My viewing distance for my 50" screen is about 2.5 metres and I'm wondering if I will notice very much.
The HDR side of it may be another thing entirely.
I have found that some of the bext examples to show off the tech are with games. Have a look at Ratchet & Clank and your PS4 Pro if you need convincing that buying a 4K/HDR TV was the right way to go. Battlefront 2 on the Xbox One X has a few brilliant moments as well.
Unlike 3D, the industry really seems to be behind 4K/HDR, so I can't see it falling by the wayside. Even Netflix and Amazon Prime are pushing a lot of their own productions in 4K/HDR and a lot of that actually looks pretty good despite being a far lower bitrate than 4K Blu-ray.
Just an update, but it didnt go the way I thought it would or had planned.
I went to sound and vision in Bristol back in February and at the end of the day ended up in the Sony suite seeing their latest and greatest. If you gave them your email address they would email you some discount codes for some of there products. I duly did this and later the following week I got an email from them. It wasn't a discount code though but access to the sony employee discount website. This changed things quite a bit and ended up buying a KD-55XE9005 off of there. I got a sony factory refurbished one for £780, which I couldn't come close to anywhere else. Later that week I bought a denon avr-x2400 to go with it.
Having had them for a while there is definitely something new going on inside the denon amp. In virtual X mode the surround effect is much better to my ears giving a fuller effect rather than sound focused at the speakers.
However the TV is amazing coming from a 4 year old panasonic. 4k hasn't really moved things on that much but the HDR is incredible.
So overall not what I had intended to do but very happy with the out come. Thanks again.
I went to sound and vision in Bristol back in February and at the end of the day ended up in the Sony suite seeing their latest and greatest. If you gave them your email address they would email you some discount codes for some of there products. I duly did this and later the following week I got an email from them. It wasn't a discount code though but access to the sony employee discount website. This changed things quite a bit and ended up buying a KD-55XE9005 off of there. I got a sony factory refurbished one for £780, which I couldn't come close to anywhere else. Later that week I bought a denon avr-x2400 to go with it.
Having had them for a while there is definitely something new going on inside the denon amp. In virtual X mode the surround effect is much better to my ears giving a fuller effect rather than sound focused at the speakers.
However the TV is amazing coming from a 4 year old panasonic. 4k hasn't really moved things on that much but the HDR is incredible.
So overall not what I had intended to do but very happy with the out come. Thanks again.
Edited by spudgun GB on Tuesday 17th April 23:00
There is 4k and there is 4k. Some films, documentaries etc. are mastered in 2k (or thereabouts, maybe higher for some) and bumped up to 4k. Masters being a tad better than 1080p (not 1080i, different thing, sort of). Other films are mastered 4k and higher, these should look better however 4k carries all that HDR and Dolby vision etc. Mind you, Star Trek on Netflix was 1080p with HDR.
Planet Earth II and Blue Planet II are master in 5k. They are absolutely stunning and should be a show case on how to do it. On disk though, compression adds another dimension and whilst a disk is not full fat 4K it s streets ahead of streaming rates at the moment.
Handy what is what here
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=270798
Some films are getting scanned across, some of the the film format lends itself to 4k very well, Blade Runner 4K is superb. But there are lemons, Independence Day II or whatever it is called is visually superb, pity the film is pants.
Streaming rates are also different for the usual suspects in 4k. Netflix is 15 mb/s and that shows.
Planet Earth II and Blue Planet II are master in 5k. They are absolutely stunning and should be a show case on how to do it. On disk though, compression adds another dimension and whilst a disk is not full fat 4K it s streets ahead of streaming rates at the moment.
Handy what is what here
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=270798
Some films are getting scanned across, some of the the film format lends itself to 4k very well, Blade Runner 4K is superb. But there are lemons, Independence Day II or whatever it is called is visually superb, pity the film is pants.
Streaming rates are also different for the usual suspects in 4k. Netflix is 15 mb/s and that shows.
spudgun GB said:
Just an update, but it didnt go the way I thought it would or had planned.
I went to sound and vision in Bristol back in February and at the end of the day ended up in the Sony suite seeing their latest and greatest. If you gave them your email address they would email you some discount codes for some of there products. I duly did this and later the following week I got an email from them. It wasn't a discount code though but access to the sony employee discount website. This changed things quite a bit and ended up buying a KD-55XE9005 off of there. I got a sony factory refurbished one for £780, which I couldn't come close to anywhere else. Later that week I bought a denon avr-x2400 to go with it.
Having had them for a while there is definitely something new going on inside the denon amp. In virtual X mode the surround effect is much better to my ears giving a fuller effect rather than sound focused at the speakers.
However the TV is amazing coming from a 4 year old panasonic. 4k hasn't really moved things on that much but the HDR is incredible.
So overall not what I had intended to do but very happy with the out come. Thanks again.
I'm glad that you are up and running, and that you are pleased with the results.I went to sound and vision in Bristol back in February and at the end of the day ended up in the Sony suite seeing their latest and greatest. If you gave them your email address they would email you some discount codes for some of there products. I duly did this and later the following week I got an email from them. It wasn't a discount code though but access to the sony employee discount website. This changed things quite a bit and ended up buying a KD-55XE9005 off of there. I got a sony factory refurbished one for £780, which I couldn't come close to anywhere else. Later that week I bought a denon avr-x2400 to go with it.
Having had them for a while there is definitely something new going on inside the denon amp. In virtual X mode the surround effect is much better to my ears giving a fuller effect rather than sound focused at the speakers.
However the TV is amazing coming from a 4 year old panasonic. 4k hasn't really moved things on that much but the HDR is incredible.
So overall not what I had intended to do but very happy with the out come. Thanks again.
I went the same way last week, selling my X4000 and all of the associated 4K gear to buy an X4400 that does it all in one box. It was still quite a lot of money to spend on something that wasn't a big upgrade in most ways, but I am pleased I did it.
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