MOT testing emissions and cat failure

[Loose_Cannon]

Hi all. I recently bought a Jag XJR in Northern Ireland, which a few days prior to me purchasing had an MOT (not at the supplying garage, it's done by the Govt over there).

Within 50 miles of leaving the engine light came on and when I got home this was diagnosed to 2 duff cats, the contents of which fell on the floor when changed for new ones.

Looking at the NI MOT the parameters for "FAST IDLE CO2" and "LAMBDA" have been entered as "not available". Checking old MOTs (done in England) these parameters are always filled in. TBH I have no idea what these parameters actually mean, but leaving them blank doesn't seem right. 3 questions really;

Why would these values have been left blank?
Is the test still valid with these blank? (Yes I suppose as it was a "pass")
Would real measured values to these parameters have warned of failed/failing cats?

Any MOT testers in the house? Id like to know more before using emotive words like collusion or ineptitude in any complaints.

[stevieturbo]

Loose_Cannon said:

Hi all. I recently bought a Jag XJR in Northern Ireland, which a few days prior to me purchasing had an MOT (not at the supplying garage, it's done by the Govt over there).

Within 50 miles of leaving the engine light came on and when I got home this was diagnosed to 2 duff cats, the contents of which fell on the floor when changed for new ones.

Looking at the NI MOT the parameters for "FAST IDLE CO2" and "LAMBDA" have been entered as "not available". Checking old MOTs (done in England) these parameters are always filled in. TBH I have no idea what these parameters actually mean, but leaving them blank doesn't seem right. 3 questions really;

Why would these values have been left blank?
Is the test still valid with these blank? (Yes I suppose as it was a "pass")
Would real measured values to these parameters have warned of failed/failing cats?

Any MOT testers in the house? Id like to know more before using emotive words like collusion or ineptitude in any complaints.

The only oddity in our test over here, is emissions. In every other respect it is stricter than the rest of the UK, but most emissions tests are just basic, and any cat type test is only July 2001+ and that;'s just a visual.

It's all related to cars getting fked up, testers complaining about noise, fumes and all sorts of weird things ( although they're damn right as far as the utterly insane diesel test goes )

None of those a big deal when it's the working man in the street with his own business.....when you're a government employee, suddenly things change. Big claims and sick pay everywhere !!!

What age is the car ?

[Loose_Cannon]

2007, 76k miles.

I take you are located in NI too?

Funny you should mention how strict the MOT is over there, the dealer said as much too when I told him of this, and I genuinely think he was a surprised as me.

And yet they also managed to miss 2 large worn lower front suspension arm bushes, damage to the inside edge the OSF tyre, not to mention 2 advisory items from the last MOT which was carried out here on the mainland (namely NSR lower shock bush which was loose as f, and a couple of nasty bullets in the screen hidden near the wiper sensor area).

The dealer stumped for the cats but the suspension components the MOT station pronounced as fit have cost me 650 quid to rectify.

[stevieturbo]

Loose_Cannon said:

2007, 76k miles.

I take you are located in NI too?

Funny you should mention how strict the MOT is over there, the dealer said as much too when I told him of this, and I genuinely think he was a surprised as me.

And yet they also managed to miss 2 large worn lower front suspension arm bushes, damage to the inside edge the OSF tyre, not to mention 2 advisory items from the last MOT which was carried out here on the mainland (namely NSR lower shock bush which was loose as f, and a couple of nasty bullets in the screen hidden near the wiper sensor area).

The dealer stumped for the cats but the suspension components the MOT station pronounced as fit have cost me 650 quid to rectify.

I said much stricter than on the mainland....but as always, humans are involved so often things can be a little strange.

I've bought a few vehicles from England...oddly they always seem to have an MOT barely a week old, and every single on has had major defects.
But a lot of that could be down to the motor trade...often big places selling lots of cars have "friends" who are willing to assist with MOT's to get vehicles out the door. That would apply all over.

Most dealers simply cannot be trusted. If you've bought a vehicle with major defects, then that dealer would have to be fixing those under warranty.

It's just a given...buyer beware.

I bought a van in November there...it had a full recent MOT, and a receipt for allegedly major work carried out to the fuel system
Pump, injectors all removed, tested and repaired where necessary, new filter fitted. Also replace PRV.

Now given the van had catastrophic fuel system failure 2 weeks after I bought it ( although 4,000 miles ) I had a lot of work to do to it.
And not a hope in hell was the work claimed carried out given what the receipt charged and simple visuals of how everything came apart.
There's no doubt they'd been in there tampering, as there were bolts/fixings missing, a diesel leak, bolts in wrong....but no way did they do what was claimed.
And the PRV they replaced had been tightened into the rail so hard it had destroyed it and the PRV.

And this is also the same garage that issued the MOT which was in August and less than 1000 miles before I bought it.

Edited by stevieturbo on Friday 26th January 11:21

[The Rookie]

I'm not convinced the consumer rights act applies in NI< if it did you would have recourse on the dealer to fix the suspension as well.

[stevieturbo]

Any buyer has rights, even more so if there are major defects only days after buying the vehicle. And again even more so if from a dealer !

And if there are any issues with the validity of the MOT, contact them

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/information-and-servic...

[Loose_Cannon]

I've had my share of dodgy MOTs. The worst was an American car trader in Chelmsford whose modus operandi appears to be importing any old wonky yank ste, getting a hooky MOT from his mate's garage then sitting on the car for 3 months before selling. This is apparently the cutoff dates whereby defects cannot be charged to be a failure of the MOT inspection.

I'll be honest when the dealer said the NI inspection was done by a government agency I thought it would be of a higher standard than this and/or less corruptible.

I've lodged a complaint with the DVA over there so we'll see if that amounts to anything. I doubt it but it might wake someone up somewhere.

[stevieturbo]

It would seem rather odd that it's a suspension problem that got "missed", as the shaker plates they put them on to get a visual on all joints really do give the suspension a fair old bashing.

Although emissions is also strange....

Can you post a copy of the actual MOT slips ? This will have the emissions as tested data on it, headlamp test and brake test data as well as any other notifications.
Whilst the test thresholds are just basic, the actual emissions results would have highlighted to anyone whether cats etc were operating fine

Edited by stevieturbo on Friday 26th January 22:38

[Loose_Cannon]

Hmm never seen these shaker plates you mention in use before, may be an NI thing? Regardless of those the Jag indy I visited when I got home stuck a lever in each of the 2 large bushes and got them moving with very little effort. He spun the wheel, felt the edgeit wobble, "your bushes and tyre are buggered mate". The NSR shocker lower bush actually rattled.

Sounds like technology has taken over from expertise. Surely wear on an inner edge of a tyre enough to make it look misshapen should be a red rag to an MOT inspector to go looking at bushes?



Also the opposite side, this must be worth at least an advisory?



And this was an advisory last time, I missed it as you cant see it from inside




I'll admit to being a numpty for not inspecting closer myself, I just figured a 5 mile old MOT covered some basics. Oh yes heres the figures;

[stevieturbo]

Loose_Cannon said:

Hmm never seen these shaker plates you mention in use before, may be an NI thing? Regardless of those the Jag indy I visited when I got home stuck a lever in each of the 2 large bushes and got them moving with very little effort. He spun the wheel, felt the edgeit wobble, "your bushes and tyre are buggered mate". The NSR shocker lower bush actually rattled.

Sounds like technology has taken over from expertise. Surely wear on an inner edge of a tyre enough to make it look misshapen should be a red rag to an MOT inspector to go looking at bushes?



Also the opposite side, this must be worth at least an advisory?



And this was an advisory last time, I missed it as you cant see it from inside




I'll admit to being a numpty for not inspecting closer myself, I just figured a 5 mile old MOT covered some basics. Oh yes heres the figures;

Shaker plates....car is on a 4 post ramp, wheels are on the plates and these get moved fairly robustly in various directions under hydraulic power to really give all joints a good test whilst the inspector watches for anything amiss.

Found this on Youtube. Pretty much this sort of thing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YrptNrQhpM

Exhaust emissions, it's quite apparent from that basic idle test and emissions measured...not a damn thing wrong with the cats, with emissions very much well below what even a proper cat test would require. So something doesnt add up there....perhaps whoever sold you the cats could have questions to answer ?
Exactly what were any emissions when you were told there was a problem ?

As for wheels/tyres.....who's to say those are the same wheels/tyres fitted at the MOT test ? I know plenty of people who change theirs over just for the test...and used car dealers would be the worst for it. Saves them putting new tyres on every car they get traded in to them etc

And that test is dated late November....you've only done 5 miles since then ?

As for cracked tyres......I'd say it would be more unusual to find tyres that arent cracked after a few months ! Tyres these days really do seem to be junk in that respect, and nearly some of the bigger name brands seem to be the worst !

[stevieturbo]

If the crack on the screen isnt in drivers view, isnt spreading etc...pretty sure that is not a reason for rejection either.

Of course all these problems are very visible, tyres, window etc....why didnt you raise this with the seller before you drove away ?

[Loose_Cannon]

Oh yes I agree I've been a bit of a doofus with this one - it had 4 new wheels fitted, and I first approached it from the rear, spotted 2 new tyres on the back (and on the spare) and assumed it had two new tyres on the front! Doh! I also didn't test drive it at motorway speeds (because there wasnt any nearby) so only picked up on the drone/wobble on the way home. Oh yes the 5 miles or so was before I bought it, basically back from the MOT station straight back on the forecourt.

The codes displayed were P420/430 "catalytic inefficiency" which remained even after replacing the heated upstream Lambdas. Gone now with new cats, and the guts of the old ones were in bits.