Is a 640i (2011 on) Gutless
Discussion
In persuit of a value / 4 seat convertible for the summer this looks like a 6 series is great value. 650i`s are thin on the ground but 640i are more common (but still not many about).
Of concern is getting an i6 when I prefer V8`s and the 640 is only 320BHP
Will it feel gutless ? (will try and drive one asap but other opinion
Also seems approved used is about £2k more (worth it for the warranty)
Of concern is getting an i6 when I prefer V8`s and the 640 is only 320BHP
Will it feel gutless ? (will try and drive one asap but other opinion
Also seems approved used is about £2k more (worth it for the warranty)
320bhp gutless....
oh come on. what are you wanting Veyron performance then go out buy a Veyron...
below are the figures for a 640 and a 650
640 8 speed auto 2013 0-60 5.5 sec 14.0 sec @ 97 mph
650 8 speed auto 2013 0-60 4.5 sec 12.9 sec @ 112 mph
difference being one engine is turbocharged and this gives a different delivery, the 650 being a V8 has power where the 640 doesn't, also the V8 is a more stirring engine experience wise but can actually feel less than the 640 due to the way that the turbo comes in and boosts. That nice lump of torque making itself felt.
if it were me id go for the 650.
oh come on. what are you wanting Veyron performance then go out buy a Veyron...
below are the figures for a 640 and a 650
640 8 speed auto 2013 0-60 5.5 sec 14.0 sec @ 97 mph
650 8 speed auto 2013 0-60 4.5 sec 12.9 sec @ 112 mph
difference being one engine is turbocharged and this gives a different delivery, the 650 being a V8 has power where the 640 doesn't, also the V8 is a more stirring engine experience wise but can actually feel less than the 640 due to the way that the turbo comes in and boosts. That nice lump of torque making itself felt.
if it were me id go for the 650.
With the 6 series weighing around 1800kg, I think the extra torque of the 640d helps to hide the weight a fair bit. The diesel has almost as much torque as the V8.
330 torque from the 640i carrying 1800kg isn't going to feel that rapid for me...but a diesel convertible isn't ideal either. The petrol V8 has to be the best bet for sure I reckon.
330 torque from the 640i carrying 1800kg isn't going to feel that rapid for me...but a diesel convertible isn't ideal either. The petrol V8 has to be the best bet for sure I reckon.
Coming from an E92 335i N55 to F06 640i,
no the 640i doesn't feel gutless.
Those who say it's gutless have never driven one, only drove in Eco Pro mode or are too used to exotics.
People need to learn to look beyond hp/torque/weight, (even gearing of the transmission matters a lot)
seems like they are the only criteria for performance when I browse forums.
no the 640i doesn't feel gutless.
Those who say it's gutless have never driven one, only drove in Eco Pro mode or are too used to exotics.
People need to learn to look beyond hp/torque/weight, (even gearing of the transmission matters a lot)
seems like they are the only criteria for performance when I browse forums.
My personal preference is torquey engines and slow shifting boxes (not eager to shift down all the time) I had an XFR that was horrible shifting down on every gentle prod despite V8 and S/C!! Perfect example is a DB9 and currently my old Cayenne 4.8 both move forward on a wave of torque that I find delightful. Outright oerformsnce isn't important to me just creamy pull from low revs.
I just can't do diesel for weekend fun but will test a 640i and report back
I just can't do diesel for weekend fun but will test a 640i and report back
Most cars with the ZF8 are going to be changing gears a lot, short ratios and lots of them to maximise efficiency/headline acceleration figures, I know what you mean about surfing the torque with a longer gear a very pleasant way to drive if not the fastest but who cares about that.
I set off in 2nd all the time in my car (DCT) as I much prefer the longer legs of that gear I hate short 1st gears feels like there is nothing to lean on (if that makes sense) then double shift up into 4th which will take me over 130mph but will pull from less than 30mph.
I've tried to drive ZF8s manually but it doesn't work too short in ratio and too many gears it's better to let it do the work but then you have to accept it will change down often but it is smooth.
I set off in 2nd all the time in my car (DCT) as I much prefer the longer legs of that gear I hate short 1st gears feels like there is nothing to lean on (if that makes sense) then double shift up into 4th which will take me over 130mph but will pull from less than 30mph.
I've tried to drive ZF8s manually but it doesn't work too short in ratio and too many gears it's better to let it do the work but then you have to accept it will change down often but it is smooth.
Edited by Wills2 on Saturday 27th January 20:15
I've been considering a 640itoo; it has the more powerful N55HP engine ( also used in M135i, M235i and 730 )
Looks like BMW were very conservative with the power specs. The engine makes over 350hp stock and 400hp is easy with a stage 1 map. Sounds great too..
http://www.superchips.co.uk/curves/N55HP%20with%20...
Looks like BMW were very conservative with the power specs. The engine makes over 350hp stock and 400hp is easy with a stage 1 map. Sounds great too..
http://www.superchips.co.uk/curves/N55HP%20with%20...
Edited by Crackie on Saturday 27th January 18:12
I have a 640i; gutless? No, not at all; however it is a very insulated car and you can be doing 80+ and it doesn't feel fast - but the whole 'no dramatics' thing is one of the reasons I love my car.
The power delivery compared to my old 645 is very different; the old V8 would surge and push you along on a wave, where as the i6 turbo just seems to build and build speed - and it doesn't sound as good either. If hooning is your thing, this isn't the car from you; but as a GT (and mine is a daily driver) it's very good; plus I've owned now for 3 years and have had zero mechanical issues other than a cracked sunroof.
Still love it though.
The power delivery compared to my old 645 is very different; the old V8 would surge and push you along on a wave, where as the i6 turbo just seems to build and build speed - and it doesn't sound as good either. If hooning is your thing, this isn't the car from you; but as a GT (and mine is a daily driver) it's very good; plus I've owned now for 3 years and have had zero mechanical issues other than a cracked sunroof.
Still love it though.
I would not touch an N63 in the 50i. N63tu yes but even then they can use a lot of oil. Regarding the N63 then have a Google they just are a poor engine. Even one guy with an f10 550i is struggling to resolve the multitude of issues on his N63.
Regarding the 640i a rare beast, if you want petrol then go here or M6 IMO.
Not sure but most of the time my 640D in comfort never uses 1st gear. It pretty much starts in 2nd all the time (even in sport mode it is 2nd from a standstill).
Regarding the 640i a rare beast, if you want petrol then go here or M6 IMO.
Not sure but most of the time my 640D in comfort never uses 1st gear. It pretty much starts in 2nd all the time (even in sport mode it is 2nd from a standstill).
Edited by Ninja59 on Saturday 27th January 19:29
parabolica said:
I have a 640i; gutless? No, not at all; however it is a very insulated car and you can be doing 80+ and it doesn't feel fast - but the whole 'no dramatics' thing is one of the reasons I love my car.
The power delivery compared to my old 645 is very different; the old V8 would surge and push you along on a wave, where as the i6 turbo just seems to build and build speed - and it doesn't sound as good either. If hooning is your thing, this isn't the car from you; but as a GT (and mine is a daily driver) it's very good; plus I've owned now for 3 years and have had zero mechanical issues other than a cracked sunroof.
Still love it though.
That’s how I feel about my 435d.The power delivery compared to my old 645 is very different; the old V8 would surge and push you along on a wave, where as the i6 turbo just seems to build and build speed - and it doesn't sound as good either. If hooning is your thing, this isn't the car from you; but as a GT (and mine is a daily driver) it's very good; plus I've owned now for 3 years and have had zero mechanical issues other than a cracked sunroof.
Still love it though.
Chaps it’s not looks or anything other than I love pootling around using torque and low revs it’s just a personal preference .
In bmw experience I’ve had a 530i 2004, 730d 760i and 323i the best engine for me was the diesel at the time (motorway warrior) the 530i was new and lasted 3 months before swapping for the 730 hated the engine / box.
Is the 650i really a bad engine?
Cheers
In bmw experience I’ve had a 530i 2004, 730d 760i and 323i the best engine for me was the diesel at the time (motorway warrior) the 530i was new and lasted 3 months before swapping for the 730 hated the engine / box.
Is the 650i really a bad engine?
Cheers
From memory anything 2012/13 is N63 for the 650i.
The CCP in the USA (which was never done in the UK and is/has never been acknowledged over here) included:
"For those unfamiliar with BMW engine terminology, the N63 powerplant is the twin-turbocharged, 4.4-liter V-8 with 402 horsepower that saw use in every 5 Series, 6 Series, 7 Series, X5, and X6 model that have names ending with "50i" and were manufactured between 2008 and 2013. Having the service bulletin number B001314, the recall may take several days for each vehicle involved and could include replacement of the fuel injectors, mass airflow sensors, battery, crankcase vent lines, fuel pressure sensor, the engine’s vacuum pump and last, but certainly not least, replacement of the timing chain."
The N63tu has been much better, but not perfect even now I still know people with issues regarding oil usage and pipework around the turbos being in the V not being protected properly (even with the odd recall for more shielding to protect the lines).
The UK guy with the F10 550i N63 - http://forum.bmw5.co.uk/topic/130588-reliability/ (ironically when I first saw and heard someone in the UK had a 50i I asked if it had an N63 couple of months down the line this appears....)
A US guy with an N63tu that had issues - http://www.6post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14540... (the original engine liked oil though as well)
If you go 650i then make sure it is an N63tu at least.
The other issue if you do not like a gearbox shifting around could be the ZF8 as the ratios are fairly short in the first number of gears to maximise eco points. I rarely notice mine shifting in the 640d though (unless it is cold initially it is like me when I wake up and a bit slow).
The CCP in the USA (which was never done in the UK and is/has never been acknowledged over here) included:
"For those unfamiliar with BMW engine terminology, the N63 powerplant is the twin-turbocharged, 4.4-liter V-8 with 402 horsepower that saw use in every 5 Series, 6 Series, 7 Series, X5, and X6 model that have names ending with "50i" and were manufactured between 2008 and 2013. Having the service bulletin number B001314, the recall may take several days for each vehicle involved and could include replacement of the fuel injectors, mass airflow sensors, battery, crankcase vent lines, fuel pressure sensor, the engine’s vacuum pump and last, but certainly not least, replacement of the timing chain."
The N63tu has been much better, but not perfect even now I still know people with issues regarding oil usage and pipework around the turbos being in the V not being protected properly (even with the odd recall for more shielding to protect the lines).
The UK guy with the F10 550i N63 - http://forum.bmw5.co.uk/topic/130588-reliability/ (ironically when I first saw and heard someone in the UK had a 50i I asked if it had an N63 couple of months down the line this appears....)
A US guy with an N63tu that had issues - http://www.6post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14540... (the original engine liked oil though as well)
If you go 650i then make sure it is an N63tu at least.
The other issue if you do not like a gearbox shifting around could be the ZF8 as the ratios are fairly short in the first number of gears to maximise eco points. I rarely notice mine shifting in the 640d though (unless it is cold initially it is like me when I wake up and a bit slow).
Edited by Ninja59 on Sunday 28th January 09:59
In real terms the 640 doesnt feel as quick as the DB9 did.
I ended up buying the 640d because it felt more urgent, but still without the constant thrust the AM had.
I think as a sensible 4dr car you'll be please, if budget allows maybe look at the Panamera as that is the obvious choice for speed comfort and space.
Simond S said:
In real terms the 640 doesnt feel as quick as the DB9 did.
I ended up buying the 640d because it felt more urgent, but still without the constant thrust the AM had.
I think as a sensible 4dr car you'll be please, if budget allows maybe look at the Panamera as that is the obvious choice for speed comfort and space.
I drove a 640i sport and liked it, as its a convertible PanAm is not an option, 650i tales scared the crap out of me, even with a AUC warranty plus not much choice on petrol never mind V8!I ended up buying the 640d because it felt more urgent, but still without the constant thrust the AM had.
I think as a sensible 4dr car you'll be please, if budget allows maybe look at the Panamera as that is the obvious choice for speed comfort and space.
So a high spec 640i Se or sport in blue with nappa (Dakota is horrible) and a few options (HUD I fancy) is on the map up to about £25k
Gassing Station | BMW General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff