MIL light / Fueling problem Help - Chim 4.0

[MiniGrin]

Hi all,
I have a 1998 4.0 Chim

All started a few months ago, car was running well, pops and bangs on over run, love it. Battery died so jump started it and went on to do many miles, ran a bit lumpy, stepper motor was going a bit mad (uneven idle, reving its self etc) and had stopped popping on overrun and deceleration. Didnt think alot of it, a bit annoying but just hoped it would sort its self. - it didnt.

2 or so months later it just cut out on me whilst driving, turned over twice then just clicking - dead battery so got recovered, new battery on, will turn fast and fine but wont start. Spotted the MIL light on. Had a quick read and I think/thought it was fuel pump as the 80 amp fuse is ok, it turns and has spark, and my fuel pump has never sounded good and i now cant hear the pump prime up. Also seems to go along with slight fuel starve causing the rough running prior to cutting out for a few months.

So! got a new none Bosch (i know, bad choice) one that claims to be for a chimaera, fitted it, now it will still turn fine, and now coughs and splutters a little every now and then whilst turning but wont run still, the new pump is making an uneven wurring noise (inconstant if that makes sense) and the MIL light is off until ive turned it over for about 5 mins then it comes back. i can clear it again by arming and disarming the alarm/immobilizer.

Any ideas? where to go next?

Thanks, James.

[QBee]

Better people than me will come up with suggestions. It does sound like you may not be getting fuel to the cylinders, as you imply.

But if you want to try a proper TVR fuel pump that I know works, I have one sitting in my shed you can try.
I can either post it to you, or you can pop over if you ever venture out of God's own county to the south - I am just outside Newark-on-Trent, a mile off the A1.

Have you cleared the MIL light? I think disconnecting and reconnecting the ECU may reset it, but that's without consulting the book of words. Might be a thought anyway - I have known that clear faults before. Also, if you cannot hear the fuel pump prime, then that's your first fault to sort. The fuel pump is on a different immobiliser circuit to the ignition. I assume you must have locked and unlocked the car to reset the immobiliser.


Now for some proper comments from them that knows, tha knows.

Edited by QBee on Tuesday 30th January 21:56

[N7GTX]

Sounds like the fuel pump relay above the passenger's feet is not working or there is a bad connection between the pump and the relay.
First, on the B pillar just behind the passenger's seat you can pull the trim away as its on velcro. The wiring for the pump joins here. Look at the pump wiring colours then you know which ones you are looking for. Pull the connector apart and ensure dry and clean. WD40 or electrical contact cleaner will do.
If that is all good you need to check if you get 12 volts at the pump. Obviously if you have a multimeter an easy check or use a bulb and hold a wire on the centre point and one on the side with the other ends attached to the 2 terminals on the pump. Turn the ignition on. The light should come on for 3 secs then go off if the system and relay are working.
Relays are a common failure and usually located either above the passenger's feet or in the mass of wiring above the battery. The relay should be a brown one (Bosch) although it may be metal and likely in a blue holder. There will be another next to it and it is for the ignition circuits. Good practice to replace both especially when replacing the pump.
The relay looks like this:



The Bosch part number is 0332014112 and available on eBay etc or from a TVR supplier:

https://tvr-parts.com/tvr-parts/part-details/tvr-m...

Edited by N7GTX on Tuesday 30th January 23:45

[Classic Chim]

N7GTX said:

Sounds like the fuel pump relay above the passenger's feet is not working or there is a bad connection between the pump and the relay.
First, on the B pillar just behind the passenger's seat you can pull the trim away as its on velcro. The wiring for the pump joins here. Look at the pump wiring colours then you know which ones you are looking for. Pull the connector apart and ensure dry and clean. WD40 or electrical contact cleaner will do.
If that is all good you need to check if you get 12 volts at the pump. Obviously if you have a multimeter an easy check or use a bulb and hold a wire on the centre point and one on the side with the other ends attached to the 2 terminals on the pump. Turn the ignition on. The light should come on for 3 secs then go off if the system and relay are working.
Relays are a common failure and usually located either above the passenger's feet or in the mass of wiring above the battery. The relay should be a brown one (Bosch) although it may be metal and likely in a blue holder. There will be another next to it and it is for the ignition circuits. Good practice to replace both especially when replacing the pump.
The relay looks like this:



The Bosch part number is 0332014112 and available on eBay etc or from a TVR supplier:

https://tvr-parts.com/tvr-parts/part-details/tvr-m...

Edited by N7GTX on Tuesday 30th January 23:45

Even I understood that. Excellent

[N7GTX]

^^^^ not taking the piss are you, divvy?

[Classic Chim]

Hahaha
No not at all.
I don’t even know where my relays are anymore that’s how divvy I am!

So the Mil light ( wtf ) is it again,
Is it connected with Mbe ?
Specifically CUX, is it like a fault code signal ?

[N7GTX]

Malfunction Indicator Light. Don't think its connected or it would come on when you turn the ignition on then go off when the engine starts. May be wrong as I've never asked Trickster.

[MiniGrin]

Thanks guys, i will borrow a few relays to check tomorrow off my dads griff and get some ordered. Will post back with my findings. Cheers

[blitzracing]

The MIL light comes on when the ECU picks up a fault condition, but its unusual to find it working on a TVR unless its been re chipped as theorigional TVR ECU code did not have it enabled. You need a fault code reader or RoverGauge to read the codes from a plug in cable or 2 digit fault display. All covered here- about 2/3 of the page downwards.

http://www.g33.co.uk/pages/technical-fuel-injectio...

[QBee]

MILF light works on my car. Tends to come on when the Mrs gets in the car.

[N7GTX]

blitzracing said:

The MIL light comes on when the ECU picks up a fault condition, but its unusual to find it working on a TVR unless its been re chipped as theorigional TVR ECU code did not have it enabled. You need a fault code reader or RoverGauge to read the codes from a plug in cable or 2 digit fault display. All covered here- about 2/3 of the page downwards.

http://www.g33.co.uk/pages/technical-fuel-injectio...

Yes, understand this Blitz, but we were wondering if our MBE's were plumbed in. I'm guessing not as stand alone software can access it but I never asked the question. OBD protocols connect but give spurious fault codes and data

[blitzracing]

Its all a bit haphazard- basically there should be +12v on one side of the MIL light and the other side is then grounded by the ECU when a fault occurs to bring the lamp on. There are two issues- one is that on some TVRs it appears the lamp is grounded when it needs 12v so will never work, the second is the Range Rover firmware in the ECU does not have the fault code lamp enabled. Its a really easy change in the firmware to get it to work, and Steve Sprint even reworked the code to get a nice little flash on ignition on as a test to show its working, but it does need a re-chip to get this function. Otherwise you have to rely on RoverGauge or the two digit fault code reader to even know when the ECU is in limp home mode.

[MiniGrin]

Hi again, had chance to look this morning, changed out the relay for the fuel, no better. Changed it back, persevered trying to start it. So turning it over and pumping the pedal, it just caught and ran..... not very well. Quite a bit of smoke from both pipes to start with, wouldn't idle, VERY noisy from both exhaust and engine, and Very lumpy - sounded like 4 cylinders, switched off after a few minuets when i got a bit of smoke from the engine bay (probably just burning off crud from a few months stood but better safe than sorry). Felt the exhaust, passenger side was very hot (as expected from a few minuets running), driver side was relatively cold.

So, looks and sounds like the driver side bank of the V is not working..... could this be a fuel blockage on the injector rail? or could it be a dead CAM ..... or something else, what do people think?

Thanks, James.

EDIT: also the fuel pump is now deadly quiet.... but i guess its working given it ran for a few mins until i let it stop. MIL light now permanently on.

Edited by MiniGrin on Thursday 1st February 12:12

[QBee]

We had this issue of one cold bank a couple of weeks ago, either on here of Faceache.
Cannot remember the diagnosis now, but someone will remember.

[spitfire4v8]

If the drivers bank is stone cold the only thing that can stop all 4 cylinders firing is no supply or return for the injectors which are fired in 2 banks of 4 injectors.
You can do a quick check for return ecu signal and power by removing the side repeater and remove the bulb holder from the lens bit and plug it into one injector plug. You might need a darkened room but you should see it pulsing very dimly on the starter. If not you need to check for a 12v feed, or the return to the ecu. If it's pulsing you have power and signal, if it doesnt you have one or both missing.

[Penelope Stopit]

Here is some information
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

[ChimpOnGas]

MiniGrin said:

Hi all,
I have a 1998 4.0 Chim

All started a few months ago, car was running well, pops and bangs on over run, love it. Battery died so jump started it and went on to do many miles, ran a bit lumpy, stepper motor was going a bit mad (uneven idle, reving its self etc) and had stopped popping on overrun and deceleration. Didnt think alot of it, a bit annoying but just hoped it would sort its self. - it didnt.

2 or so months later it just cut out on me whilst driving, turned over twice then just clicking - dead battery so got recovered, new battery on, will turn fast and fine but wont start. Spotted the MIL light on. Had a quick read and I think/thought it was fuel pump as the 80 amp fuse is ok, it turns and has spark, and my fuel pump has never sounded good and i now cant hear the pump prime up. Also seems to go along with slight fuel starve causing the rough running prior to cutting out for a few months.

So! got a new none Bosch (i know, bad choice) one that claims to be for a chimaera, fitted it, now it will still turn fine, and now coughs and splutters a little every now and then whilst turning but wont run still, the new pump is making an uneven wurring noise (inconstant if that makes sense) and the MIL light is off until ive turned it over for about 5 mins then it comes back. i can clear it again by arming and disarming the alarm/immobilizer.

Any ideas? where to go next?

Thanks, James.

James, check your earths and your charging system!

There's a bunch of sensors group earthed to the N/S cylinder head that are a good place to start, but you need to check all earths including very importantly the battery main earth.



Also check your alternator output, first direct at the alternator itself and then at the battery, all the heavy cabling on our TVRs was of a marginal gauge when new, years of heat cycles and corrosion don't help either, then there's a feeble failure prone strip fuse under the car that makes things worse still.

In many respects your ECU is just a serious of switches, it needs a solid reliable current supply to function correctly, unfortunately with the TVR wiring so poor and poor earths on these cars so common, you really need to start at one end of each circuit and work your way right through the system until you find the issue.... or more likely the collection of issues.

Good luck with it.

[blitzracing]

If The MIL light is coming on all the time, the ECU is picking up something pretty serious, as it does not trigger easily.

[Roy the Boy]

QBee said:

MILF light works on my car. Tends to come on when the Mrs gets in the car.

And the MIL light when her mother does?

[blitzracing]

Just had a thought- Ive seen something like this before with the MIL lamp being on all the time. Go back to the photo of the loom above and see the blue connector marked loom connections- this is a plug and socket assembly, and it joins various grounds and supply rails with loop back connectors in the "plug side". Ive seen corrosion on the loopback connectors make it go open circuit that causes all sorts of odd issues (like COG says with his earth wiring). You have to get a screwdriver around the edge of the plug to release it, but its certainly worth a check.