Static Salaries
Discussion
I've just had an agent email me with a job spec, the salary is less than I was earning 9-10 years ago when I was last working as a permanent employee and this isn't the only example. I keep an eye on the permanent IT job market and salaries have pretty much remained static for at least 10 years which I find really odd since we've had at least 2-3% inflation and much more in some areas like utilities and travel etc.
This was in fact one of the reasons I left permiedom as I was going backwards year on year in terms of spending power. Is this the norm in other industries too or just peculiar to IT?
This was in fact one of the reasons I left permiedom as I was going backwards year on year in terms of spending power. Is this the norm in other industries too or just peculiar to IT?
Certainly it's becoming more prevalent in IT as it becomes more of a commodity and less of a specialism.
There are still highly paid IT roles but they're in the higher skill and experience levels. Support in particular seems static or reducing from what I've seen lately.
I was on 20+ in the late 80s but that seems to be a support salary these days.
There are still highly paid IT roles but they're in the higher skill and experience levels. Support in particular seems static or reducing from what I've seen lately.
I was on 20+ in the late 80s but that seems to be a support salary these days.
You need to invest in your career to keep going forwards. I’ve moved from software development, into delivery and leadership, added operations and spent the last decade in digital and eCommerce moving into digital transformation. All perm for well known, big brands and earning more now than I ever have, well into double six figs with all the executive perks that go with it, running a team of 500. Many of them contractors who obviously we don’t career develop.
One of the reasons I left contracting many years ago is I didn’t want to be a 40 yo software developer. Each to their own though.
One of the reasons I left contracting many years ago is I didn’t want to be a 40 yo software developer. Each to their own though.
The problem is although I was offered several managerial roles in my time, it's just not something that interests me as people are a pain in the arse so I skilled up but again skilling up will only increase your salary so far before you hit a paywall.
At any rate I'm not really talking about promotions or moving up the corporate ladder or permie vs contracting. I'm talking about companies paying staff the same wages that they were paying 20 years ago to do the the same job when everything else has got more expensive with above inflation increases. Even contracting rates have been pretty static during the time I've been doing it, how can that be when the whole world is getting more expensive?
At any rate I'm not really talking about promotions or moving up the corporate ladder or permie vs contracting. I'm talking about companies paying staff the same wages that they were paying 20 years ago to do the the same job when everything else has got more expensive with above inflation increases. Even contracting rates have been pretty static during the time I've been doing it, how can that be when the whole world is getting more expensive?
There’s been a pay freeze since about 2008 when the banking crisis hit. We’ve been limping along ever since and many have been made redundant along the way. It’s not just IT. Add to that, many roles have become commoditised and many younger people have entered the market and will work for less. It’s all a bit crap really.
Mobile Chicane said:
Same in my gig - advertising / marketing.
I see plenty of roles advertised at £35k in London.
I was earning that as an Account Manager in 1995.
I suspect we are/were both subject to the boom. In 2000 I earned more in a month than I do now do in a year.I see plenty of roles advertised at £35k in London.
I was earning that as an Account Manager in 1995.
In 2001 it all ended. The (my) IT industry started to tank and I jumped. Stupidly. But hey that's the choices.,
As to the OP. 0% increase for me YOY but managed an 8% rise over 3 years performance related.
Next year have already been told "don't work too hard, expect 0%"
Its been pretty static from what I can see for the last few years, any opportunities I have had offered to be have been below and at best equal to what I am currently on (base salary wise). The start of this year has seen significant rises in what could be on the table. Not significant enough to pull me away from a pretty sweet gig but enough to have a look. I'm in a fairly specialist area of telecoms.
I don't get how this is sustainable in the long term though? Surely inflationary pressures must force wages to rise at some point? I know a few people who were struggling to get to the end of the month back then, how will these people cope when in real terms, they've been going backwards for at least the last 10 years?
Contrary to popular perception, Britain is actually one of the poorest countries in the developed world. The country's productivity rate is appalling. The management class is widely acknowledged as among the worst in the Western world (David Brent).
A flood of outsourcing to cheaper Asia and a flood of cheaper overseas workers has reduced real wages for much of the lower and middle classes and even some upper classes in the UK (and elsewhere).
For theoretical example, why would anyone hire a £20k UK coder to redesign a website, when you can find one just as good in India for £5k. You've got to cut your own salary to something like £8k before the employer will even consider hiring you in the UK.
Economic failure and globalisation / regionalisation are the main reasons why wages are flat for so many. We can't afford higher salaries.
And it will only get worse as robots and AI march forward. For example, robotrading is already quietly replacing significant numbers of forex traders in London (and elsewhere).
A flood of outsourcing to cheaper Asia and a flood of cheaper overseas workers has reduced real wages for much of the lower and middle classes and even some upper classes in the UK (and elsewhere).
For theoretical example, why would anyone hire a £20k UK coder to redesign a website, when you can find one just as good in India for £5k. You've got to cut your own salary to something like £8k before the employer will even consider hiring you in the UK.
Economic failure and globalisation / regionalisation are the main reasons why wages are flat for so many. We can't afford higher salaries.
And it will only get worse as robots and AI march forward. For example, robotrading is already quietly replacing significant numbers of forex traders in London (and elsewhere).
Offshoring jobs and bringing offshore resources onshore (then giving them permanent residence) hasn't helped. Neither has some of the largest IT employers like HP, CSC, and IBM making large numbers of people redundant. Some of the redundancy schemes seem particularly cynical as they have replaced older employees with considerably cheaper onshore grads and offshore resources. Jobs aimed at grads/onshored labour will have a lower salary band. I suspect they hope that there will be an endless supply of cheap labour who are just about good enough to do the job.
On a personal level I've managed above average inflation every year I've been in IT (more than 20 years), but I have had to change job regularly and I'm always updating my skillset. I know at some point I will be made redundant and I'll be back to square one, just hope I can get to retirement first.
On a personal level I've managed above average inflation every year I've been in IT (more than 20 years), but I have had to change job regularly and I'm always updating my skillset. I know at some point I will be made redundant and I'll be back to square one, just hope I can get to retirement first.
Olivera said:
Yipper said:
why would anyone hire a £20k UK coder to redesign a website, when you can find one just as good in India for £5k.
However on the flip-side, most companies also don't really care about the quality of the offshore staff when they are making a 75%+ saving on their wage bill.
ROSSinHD said:
Since staring in my sector in 2001 my salary has increased on average 12% per year based on base salary and not bonus or package items adjusted for inflation as well. I guess I am lucky.
Have you been doing the same job for the same company with the same scope and responsibility for all that time? If you are on an upward career trajectory 12% is very good but I'm sure there are others who have done much better. I was curious as to your calculation and my salary movement has been pretty much the same with the same sort of annual compounded % increase for basic salary.
Olivera said:
Yipper said:
why would anyone hire a £20k UK coder to redesign a website, when you can find one just as good in India for £5k.
ks.On this ocassion he is not far from the mark, 20k UK coders have no future. Its a commodity at that level which means cheapest wins.
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