Speed camera nets £750,000 in two months
Discussion
A temporary speed trap at roadworks has led to motorists being fined £750,000 in just two months. Cameras were placed on both carriageways of the busy A27 at Falmer, near Brighton, while a pedestrian subway was installed.
The East Sussex trap helped earn a £1.5million 'profit' for the Government in a year.
The speed limit was reduced from 70mph to 40mph, but about 12,500 drivers failed to slow down, and incurred £60 fines.
The figures were disclosed in the 2003-2004 annual review of the Sussex Speed Camera Partnership, which runs the county's cameras.
The profit Government-funded organisation made just under £1.5m profit for the year, half provided by the motorists caught at the A27 roadworks during February and March, which was handed back to the Department for Constitutional Affairs.
After the A303 Foggy Bottom debacle, one does wonder whether the reduced limit was signed correctly.
It would be interesting (although academic) to learn how many motorists were booked when there were no workmen around (night, weekends, etc.).
Streaky
>>> Edited by streaky on Wednesday 20th April 14:59
The East Sussex trap helped earn a £1.5million 'profit' for the Government in a year.
The speed limit was reduced from 70mph to 40mph, but about 12,500 drivers failed to slow down, and incurred £60 fines.
The figures were disclosed in the 2003-2004 annual review of the Sussex Speed Camera Partnership, which runs the county's cameras.
The profit Government-funded organisation made just under £1.5m profit for the year, half provided by the motorists caught at the A27 roadworks during February and March, which was handed back to the Department for Constitutional Affairs.
After the A303 Foggy Bottom debacle, one does wonder whether the reduced limit was signed correctly.
It would be interesting (although academic) to learn how many motorists were booked when there were no workmen around (night, weekends, etc.).
Streaky
>>> Edited by streaky on Wednesday 20th April 14:59
Now if they had signs which informed drivers over the limit to slow down to 40 when it detected speeding, perhaps less than 12500 people would have broken that limit.
Are they more concerned in getting fines than keeping the workmen safe on the road?
As for getting 3/4 of a million in fines, did it occur to them that thats money out of peoples pockets, money that would be better spent in the private sector as opposed to crippling the economy with stealth taxes and government bloat?
Thought not.
Are they more concerned in getting fines than keeping the workmen safe on the road?
As for getting 3/4 of a million in fines, did it occur to them that thats money out of peoples pockets, money that would be better spent in the private sector as opposed to crippling the economy with stealth taxes and government bloat?
Thought not.
I just realised one particularly stupid thing the report said:
The profit Government-funded organisation made just under £1.5m profit for the year, half provided by the motorists caught at the A27 roadworks during February and March, which was handed back to the Department for Constitutional Affairs.
How can you hand money 'back' to someone who didn't have it in the first place? Symptomatic I fear.
Grrrrrrrr.
Streaky
The profit Government-funded organisation made just under £1.5m profit for the year, half provided by the motorists caught at the A27 roadworks during February and March, which was handed back to the Department for Constitutional Affairs.
How can you hand money 'back' to someone who didn't have it in the first place? Symptomatic I fear.
Grrrrrrrr.
Streaky
12,500 speeders in two weeks? One every 97 seconds? how dangerous must that be?
After having to replace the camera film the first TEM TIMES, one would have thought the scamera partnerships would have realised this (so called) potential danger and done something more effective to combat it.....but no, they let it continue. I really can't guess why!!!
I'm in the wrong job. Maybe I should instead set up my own speed camera unit and send out official looking conditional offers.......
Please make cheques out to
Cars And Safe Health, or C A S H for short
After having to replace the camera film the first TEM TIMES, one would have thought the scamera partnerships would have realised this (so called) potential danger and done something more effective to combat it.....but no, they let it continue. I really can't guess why!!!
I'm in the wrong job. Maybe I should instead set up my own speed camera unit and send out official looking conditional offers....... Please make cheques out to
Cars And Safe Health, or C A S H for short
KB_S1 said:
Does anyone know the accident rate during this scamera blitz?
My thoughts exactly.
If there were numerous speed-related KSIs then the cameras didn't prevent them. If there weren't then speed wasn't the problem anyway.
So, apart from the small matter of the money, it's lose-lose for the scumera partnership.
Not sure about this one.
Sussex Camera Partnership in my opinion tend to be one of the better ones. All their sites are clearly marked, and there is even a mobile site outside the local school, albeit I have a suspicion the accident blackspot is about half a mile from that point. The number of fixed cameras in Sussex is small, and those I have seen appear to be in residential areas.
The A27 is a fast road, and in places dangerous, although part of that I suspect is that motorists get imaptient on the single carriageway bit, seek to overtake misjudging speed of oncoming traffic and therefore accidents happen.
My question on the A27 roadworks would be were the cameras fixed, in which case there is no excuse, and was the 40mph limit only enforced when the workmen were around, or were a lot of these people caught when there was no additional danger.
I think Towman knows the area better than me.
Sussex Camera Partnership in my opinion tend to be one of the better ones. All their sites are clearly marked, and there is even a mobile site outside the local school, albeit I have a suspicion the accident blackspot is about half a mile from that point. The number of fixed cameras in Sussex is small, and those I have seen appear to be in residential areas.
The A27 is a fast road, and in places dangerous, although part of that I suspect is that motorists get imaptient on the single carriageway bit, seek to overtake misjudging speed of oncoming traffic and therefore accidents happen.
My question on the A27 roadworks would be were the cameras fixed, in which case there is no excuse, and was the 40mph limit only enforced when the workmen were around, or were a lot of these people caught when there was no additional danger.
I think Towman knows the area better than me.
Yep. In my humble opinion the speed limit was totally justified and the cameras were clearly signed. (sorry)
The road in question is 3 lanes wide with one lane joining as a slip from a tight 90 degree bend. After about 400m the road splits again, with one lane as an off slip to the left. So we have the following mix.......
High speed traffic trying to get from lanes 2&3 to lane 1. Slow (ish) traffic trying to get from lane 1 to lane 2.
There were loads of accidents there prior to the roadworks.
Eastbound is even worse. Again there is a third lane formed by an on and off slip. Traffic comes down the hill at well over 70 mph. In the middle of the on/off slip lane is a junction
with no lead-in at all. Buses take this turning at 5mph! If you come down the hill at warp factor and want to turn for the University, you can easily be suprised by an almost stationary car in lane one. If there was ever a junction which needs re-engineering, it is this one.
One last addition..... As usual, although the cameras have gone, the lines are still on the bloody road. So one can be travelling at a perfectly legit 70mph only or the moron in front to hit the brakes as he panics about a camera!
Blimey - what a long post - I must go and lie down.
The road in question is 3 lanes wide with one lane joining as a slip from a tight 90 degree bend. After about 400m the road splits again, with one lane as an off slip to the left. So we have the following mix.......
High speed traffic trying to get from lanes 2&3 to lane 1. Slow (ish) traffic trying to get from lane 1 to lane 2.
There were loads of accidents there prior to the roadworks.
Eastbound is even worse. Again there is a third lane formed by an on and off slip. Traffic comes down the hill at well over 70 mph. In the middle of the on/off slip lane is a junction
with no lead-in at all. Buses take this turning at 5mph! If you come down the hill at warp factor and want to turn for the University, you can easily be suprised by an almost stationary car in lane one. If there was ever a junction which needs re-engineering, it is this one. One last addition..... As usual, although the cameras have gone, the lines are still on the bloody road. So one can be travelling at a perfectly legit 70mph only or the moron in front to hit the brakes as he panics about a camera!
Blimey - what a long post - I must go and lie down.
I was working at Sussex uny at the time of this camera. The limits were well signed. I did not get caught, or flashed. However, the cameras were operational 24 hours and there were rarely workmen on the road. In fact, weeks would pass without any activity of any sort - probably the workmen were working nearby but not on the road itself. There were accusations that the camera activity was deliberately prolonged .. I don't remember the details as to why or who. I have no problems slowing for roadworks, but much of the time the cameras were enforcing the limit there was no-one working within sight.
Anyone who was caught could not have been paying attention to the road.
Anyone who was caught could not have been paying attention to the road.
towman said:towman - when you next arise from your wholly justified recumbent position, could you please enlighten us as to the number of lanes in use during the period the cameras were operating and whether these were normal width. Also, whereabouts in the overall length of the roadworks were the cameras sited. Very many thanks - Streaky
Yep. In my humble opinion the speed limit was totally justified and the cameras were clearly signed. (sorry)
The road in question is 3 lanes wide with one lane joining as a slip from a tight 90 degree bend. After about 400m the road splits again, with one lane as an off slip to the left.
towman said:
Yep. In my humble opinion the speed limit was totally justified and the cameras were clearly signed. (sorry)
The road in question is 3 lanes wide with one lane joining as a slip from a tight 90 degree bend. After about 400m the road splits again, with one lane as an off slip to the left. So we have the following mix.......
High speed traffic trying to get from lanes 2&3 to lane 1. Slow (ish) traffic trying to get from lane 1 to lane 2.
There were loads of accidents there prior to the roadworks.
Eastbound is even worse. Again there is a third lane formed by an on and off slip. Traffic comes down the hill at well over 70 mph. In the middle of the on/off slip lane is a junction
One last addition..... As usual, although the cameras have gone, the lines are still on the bloody road. So one can be travelling at a perfectly legit 70mph only or the moron in front to hit the brakes as he panics about a camera!
Blimey - what a long post - I must go and lie down.
From what you say, the road is in desperate need of re-engineering. Is that what the roadworks were doing?
If the limits were justified during the roadworks, then the cameras make some sense. But I do think it would be useful to understand whether they actually had an effect on the number of accidents. If the cameras were really obvious yet so many drivers didn't see them, that suggests that it may have been the less observant ones -- the ones more likely to have accidents. If they didn't have accidents then perhaps, for all the inherent danger of the situation, speed wasn't the main issue?
supraman2954 said:
12,500 speeders in two weeks? One every 97 seconds? how dangerous must that be?
After having to replace the camera film the first TEM TIMES, one would have thought the scamera partnerships would have realised this (so called) potential danger and done something more effective to combat it.....but no, they let it continue. I really can't guess why!!!
Please make cheques out to
Cars And Safe Health, or C A S H for short
There obviously is an issue if they caught that many cars. But they did nothing to reduce the danger. e.g. Sign posting earlier or putting a police car in an obvious spot to make sure motorists see it and slow down.
I can't help thinking it is all about revenue
.docjan said:
Now if they had signs which informed drivers over the limit to slow down to 40 when it detected speeding, perhaps less than 12500 people would have broken that limit.
You mean like a Red Circle, White background with a 40 in black text!
docjan said:
Are they more concerned in getting fines than keeping the workmen safe on the road?
NO!
docjan said:
As for getting 3/4 of a million in fines, did it occur to them that thats money out of peoples pockets, money that would be better spent in the private sector as opposed to crippling the economy with stealth taxes and government bloat? Thought not.
It does. Does it not occur to you and the 12,500 that there is a simple way to prevent the loss of £60.00 and keep the workforce safe?
>> Edited by destroyer on Thursday 21st April 10:24
chrisgr31 said:
The A27 is a fast road, and in places dangerous, although part of that I suspect is that motorists get imaptient on the single carriageway bit, seek to overtake misjudging speed of oncoming traffic and therefore accidents happen.
My question on the A27 roadworks would be were the cameras fixed, in which case there is no excuse, and was the 40mph limit only enforced when the workmen were around, or were a lot of these people caught when there was no additional danger.
I think Towman knows the area better than me.
One of the objectives of road works cameras is to protect the workforce.
Another, very important objective is to protect the drivers who are traversing the road works where the layout is temporary, presents many unusual twists and turns and is subject to change as the works progress. Coming upon a road layout at night that was significantly different to what a driver may have passed just hours before will require a little more time to comprehend, lower speed at approach will allow a greater time to do just that.
destroyer said:
It does. Does it not occur to you and the 12,500 that there is a simple way to prevent the loss of £60.00 and keep the workforce safe?
Out of the 12,500 speeders, how many of them injured the workmen as they drove by?
None? Sounds like they were pretty safe already...
destroyer said:
One of the objectives of road works cameras is to protect the workforce.
Another, very important objective is to protect the drivers who are traversing the road works where the layout is temporary, presents many unusual twists and turns and is subject to change as the works progress. Coming upon a road layout at night that was significantly different to what a driver may have passed just hours before will require a little more time to comprehend, lower speed at approach will allow a greater time to do just that.
Can you advise me what interest you have in this matter? Whether its merely as a road user, as a police office, as a member of a camera partnership, as a victim of a road accident, or relative of a victim? Always nice to know why people take the viewpoint they do. Personally my only interest is as a motorist, and a resident of East Sussex so my COuncil Tax is subsidising (or not!) this lot.
I pointed out that in most cases Sussex Camera Partnership appear to indicate clearly their camera sites, and the cameras etc are clearly visible. If memory serves me right this camera was possibly in a layby, underneath a roundabout and therefore may not have been clearly visible.
Is also possible that large numbers of people were actually caught because they were keeping their eyes open to see what hazards existed on the road, without distracting themself by viewing the speedo.
The fact that 12,500 people managed to exceed the limit (by an unknown margin) so presumably a lot more passed in excess of 40 but at less than the NIP generating speed, without incident would appear to infer that the works were relatively safe.
I don;t have much sympathy for those that get caught by cameras in roadworks as the dangers of speeding in these areas, and the often strict enforcement of temporary limits, are well publicised.
However this doesn;t stop us discussing whether speeds in these areas should be controlled by different methods, and different speed limits should operate at different times of day.
hedders said:
It does. Does it not occur to you and the 12,500 that there is a simple way to prevent the loss of £60.00 and keep the workforce safe?
Out of the 12,500 speeders, how many of them injured the workmen as they drove by?
None? Sounds like they were pretty safe already...
I don't think so.
A typical number of vehicles passing through a motorway site in that area would be a minimum of 30,000 in each direction. Take 60,000/day multiply by 60 days and then work out the percentage 12,500 represents. It's 0.69% of the motorists passing the cameras were caught speeding. Now that means that the vast majority were either:
1. within the speed limit, or
2. not detected because the camera wasn't active
1. is more likely as to detect motorists at 7 minute intervals over a 2 month period would require it to be active most if not all of the time.
Ariel photo with map overlay of area in question.
http://uk.multimap.com/map/photo.cgi?client=public&X=534500&Y=108750&width=500&height=310&gride=&gridn=&srec=0&coordsys=gb&db=pc&pc=&zm=0&scale=5000&right.x=6&right.y=96
The whole thing will probably have to be rodone if the football stadium is built at the Uni.
http://uk.multimap.com/map/photo.cgi?client=public&X=534500&Y=108750&width=500&height=310&gride=&gridn=&srec=0&coordsys=gb&db=pc&pc=&zm=0&scale=5000&right.x=6&right.y=96
The whole thing will probably have to be rodone if the football stadium is built at the Uni.
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