Lasting Power of Attorney - DIY or not
Discussion
My dear Dad, after seeing the pickle another part of the family are in after a will didn't turn out like he expected has decided to do an LPA (wills are already done years ago - estate goes to my kids - his only Grandchildren).
However, now he has decided time to do LPAs for himself and Mum. I think I know why as for about a year I've been trying to subltey point out something might not be right with Mum....two weeks ago she walked past me in the street, despite me saying "Hello Mum"...Mum's excuse post event is her ears were waxed and she has cleaned them and can now hear me, otherwise she would have noticed me.......hmmmm.
Anyway, Dad has decided to do LPAs for them both. DIY. With four LPAs for each other (themselves, me, sis, aunt) and add four "interested parties to the applications.
Does this seem a bit of a recipie for disaster for homemade £82 government fee LPAs? When I asked Dad whom got precedence in the descision making, and the fact that 500 miles seperates us all geographically, he though all we had to do was "agree between ourselves"and someone write a check (my Dad won't do online banking.....as sis is a fraud analyst for a bank and has convinced parents it is unsafe - she won't even buy her nieces present on Amazon due to Fraud risk....).
Does the will bypassing my generation present a conflict of interest, e.g. my sis could say give the parents the best nursing home ever, damm the cost it is their last few days, whereas if I were callous, I might think let them rot in el cheapo home, means more inheritance for my kids (*) (not that that is true but you can see what I mean). The Aunt is an unknown quantity. Seen her twice in 20 years, get a Christmas card every year, doesn't want visitors as husband doesn't like people (hence the 500 miles away about as NW as you could get without being on St Kilda).
So, I offerred to my Dad to pay for him to get a solicitor to do LPAs if cost was the issue he is writing them himself, but he (ex high up Civil Service from the pen and paper days) said he can understand a form and fill it in right?
Am I being unduly paranoid or what?
(*) whom I'll then kill to get at the money anyway, Dastarrdly and Mutley Laugh, ha-ha.....not really be great for them to afford the deposit on a small house in their early 20s (guessing mortality here.....).
TLDR. Dad is tight, is doing LPA on the cheap a good idea to save money?
However, now he has decided time to do LPAs for himself and Mum. I think I know why as for about a year I've been trying to subltey point out something might not be right with Mum....two weeks ago she walked past me in the street, despite me saying "Hello Mum"...Mum's excuse post event is her ears were waxed and she has cleaned them and can now hear me, otherwise she would have noticed me.......hmmmm.
Anyway, Dad has decided to do LPAs for them both. DIY. With four LPAs for each other (themselves, me, sis, aunt) and add four "interested parties to the applications.
Does this seem a bit of a recipie for disaster for homemade £82 government fee LPAs? When I asked Dad whom got precedence in the descision making, and the fact that 500 miles seperates us all geographically, he though all we had to do was "agree between ourselves"and someone write a check (my Dad won't do online banking.....as sis is a fraud analyst for a bank and has convinced parents it is unsafe - she won't even buy her nieces present on Amazon due to Fraud risk....).
Does the will bypassing my generation present a conflict of interest, e.g. my sis could say give the parents the best nursing home ever, damm the cost it is their last few days, whereas if I were callous, I might think let them rot in el cheapo home, means more inheritance for my kids (*) (not that that is true but you can see what I mean). The Aunt is an unknown quantity. Seen her twice in 20 years, get a Christmas card every year, doesn't want visitors as husband doesn't like people (hence the 500 miles away about as NW as you could get without being on St Kilda).
So, I offerred to my Dad to pay for him to get a solicitor to do LPAs if cost was the issue he is writing them himself, but he (ex high up Civil Service from the pen and paper days) said he can understand a form and fill it in right?
Am I being unduly paranoid or what?
(*) whom I'll then kill to get at the money anyway, Dastarrdly and Mutley Laugh, ha-ha.....not really be great for them to afford the deposit on a small house in their early 20s (guessing mortality here.....).
TLDR. Dad is tight, is doing LPA on the cheap a good idea to save money?
StanleyT said:
TLDR. Dad is tight, is doing LPA on the cheap a good idea to save money?
Go through the forms. The explanatory notes are excellent. Involve all the putative attorneys in the decision, and agree among everybody what the right answers are.You really don't need any kind of professional help - they won't add anything to the important bits, anyway.
Just make sure every detail is correct and all necessary questions have been answered. If there are any mistakes, the forms will be sent back and you'll have to do them again which will add significantly to the time.
You don't have to use a Solicitor, you can go to a member of STEP and they will usually do it for a much more reasonable sum. If your situation is straightforward enough then don't bother and do it all yourself.
You don't have to use a Solicitor, you can go to a member of STEP and they will usually do it for a much more reasonable sum. If your situation is straightforward enough then don't bother and do it all yourself.
StanleyT said:
And #3 reply, cross posted.
So what does happen when say 4 people are one persons POA, how does a descision get made?
Ta,
Stanley
It can be specified in the LPA so 2 or more have to agree or each can make the decisions independent of the others.So what does happen when say 4 people are one persons POA, how does a descision get made?
Ta,
Stanley
That's the first thing to sort out between yourselves before you start filling the forms in!
StanleyT said:
Is it any quicker is a solicitor does it?
No, the delay is all in the registration process.StanleyT said:
Though I think he worries solicitor may pick up on Mum.
The process needs to have somebody qualified confirm that she has the capacity and understands what she's doing - the "certificate provider". If she doesn't, then it's too late - you cannot get LPA after she's lost capacity.Oh, and welcome to the "demented parent" thread...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Edited by TooMany2cvs on Wednesday 7th February 17:59
Showing signs of dementia can be a long way from losing mental capacity, so I wouldn't worry just yet.
My advise would be to get the LPAs in place without delay.
One advantage of using a third party (solicitor or STEP) is that some family members may be more accepting of an independent adviser when it comes to these matters. The application process can drag on for months or not happen at all when you have parents and siblings who don't all agree on a way forward.
When the moment comes for your mum to sign the form, you really don't want anyone to doubt it is for the right reasons, or it won't get signed.
My advise would be to get the LPAs in place without delay.
One advantage of using a third party (solicitor or STEP) is that some family members may be more accepting of an independent adviser when it comes to these matters. The application process can drag on for months or not happen at all when you have parents and siblings who don't all agree on a way forward.
When the moment comes for your mum to sign the form, you really don't want anyone to doubt it is for the right reasons, or it won't get signed.
When we got mums done we used a lawyer. I did cost more but as mum was suffering from dementia, it was felt the best thing to do. Saved any argument that mum wasn't mentally capable of signing it.
Because of the "fun" we had with my mums. Not with the LPA itself but getting it implemented at banks etc. The wife and I decided to get them in place now. (Hopefully long before they are needed.) We used a solicitor and to be honest we could have done it better and quicker ourselves. (Did get half our money back)
Because of the "fun" we had with my mums. Not with the LPA itself but getting it implemented at banks etc. The wife and I decided to get them in place now. (Hopefully long before they are needed.) We used a solicitor and to be honest we could have done it better and quicker ourselves. (Did get half our money back)
Done this twice - DIY, once with an understanding GP signing to say my Mum understood what was going on (dubious at best), second one last year when my Dad had a fall (now recovered). Never had a problem, and in fact I used it to collect some investments after Mum passed on when strictly speaking I should have let the executors of the will do that (the solicitors holding the will) - still no issue with either executor or LPA. Makes me a bit twitchy this is open to abuse tbh.
Do it yourself! As others have said it is not difficult to do - just tedious. Solicitors can work out expensive. Having potentially 4 attorneys may make the application process longer as each will have to see, agree and sign the original document. It can be worded that attorneys can act independently (not jointly) which will make life easier for you should you need to make use of it. Once it has been registered with the Office of the Public Guardian the original will be sent to the applicants (your father and mother) to keep. If you have any worries it would be sensible to intercept this and get a certified copy or two made. Should you need to use it the bank or whatever institution will need to see the original (or a certified copy) and after these have done the rounds a few times they get pretty dog-eared!! Finally, although he may be filling in the forms he technically can't apply on behalf of your mother - neither can you - your mother will need to do it. Are you applying for both financial and health/welfare components? Good luck - looks like you will need to use all the family statesman and negotiating skills you have!!
toastyhamster said:
Done this twice - DIY, once with an understanding GP signing to say my Mum understood what was going on (dubious at best), second one last year when my Dad had a fall (now recovered). Never had a problem, and in fact I used it to collect some investments after Mum passed on when strictly speaking I should have let the executors of the will do that (the solicitors holding the will) - still no issue with either executor or LPA. Makes me a bit twitchy this is open to abuse tbh.
You organised your own LPAs but let Solicitors act as executors?Wow. Just WOW!!
desolate said:
I may be completely misremembering but my mother was incapable.
Using the form you inform all the relevant family plus an independent TP and they "approve" your appointment.
If somebody's already lost capacity, to the point nobody is willing to act as certificate provider, then your only option is the Court of Protection.Using the form you inform all the relevant family plus an independent TP and they "approve" your appointment.
https://www.gov.uk/courts-tribunals/court-of-prote...
...and that's as slow and expensive as you think it sounds...
REALIST123 said:
toastyhamster said:
Done this twice - DIY, once with an understanding GP signing to say my Mum understood what was going on (dubious at best), second one last year when my Dad had a fall (now recovered). Never had a problem, and in fact I used it to collect some investments after Mum passed on when strictly speaking I should have let the executors of the will do that (the solicitors holding the will) - still no issue with either executor or LPA. Makes me a bit twitchy this is open to abuse tbh.
You organised your own LPAs but let Solicitors act as executors?Wow. Just WOW!!
I'm also executor for an elderly Aunt.
TooMany2cvs said:
desolate said:
I may be completely misremembering but my mother was incapable.
Using the form you inform all the relevant family plus an independent TP and they "approve" your appointment.
If somebody's already lost capacity, to the point nobody is willing to act as certificate provider, then your only option is the Court of Protection.Using the form you inform all the relevant family plus an independent TP and they "approve" your appointment.
https://www.gov.uk/courts-tribunals/court-of-prote...
...and that's as slow and expensive as you think it sounds...
Don't forget the responsibilities which include keeping records and receipts for payments from accounts.
The Court of Protection also investigates any misuse - or suggested misuse as we found out when my sister in law discovered I was LPA for her parents.
Luckily I had everything covered by it still took the investigation a year.
Slightly O/T but there is now a refund process in place for those who paid the fees between 2013 and March last year. I dont think it was very well publicised but our solicitor informed us about it. If you did four, as we did, its £180 (I think!) which isnt bad for ten minutes form filling:
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/power-of-attorn...
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/power-of-attorn...
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff