Positive discrimination/tokenism
Discussion
Controversial topic, but listening to TMS this morning got me thinking.
i don't really care apart from a sports commentary/analysis perspective. But Woman on TMS (test match special) commentating, are bloody awful imo, sheer tokenism, box ticking. Ebony Rainsford Smith commentating on the T20 today, adds nothing states the obvious, boring voice. Now there are plenty of male commentators like that too, but she wouldn't be doing the job if she wasn't a woman, and even bigger bonus a minority.
Its the same in football, Garth Crooks is a fantastic (imo, if oft derided by many) summarizer/analyst and very entertaining, and Thierry Henry, Chris Kamara are respectively good analysts/entertaining and the lesser seen Andy Cole and Jason Roberts are good summarizers too although get no airtime. Jacqui Oatley is good too.
However Jermaine Jenas on the other hand adds nothing and is simply a box tick for the bbc, youngish, yes, minority yes, can formulate a sentence, yes. Ignoring the fact he has an average player, is boring, adds nothing and states the obvious constantly, although again lots of non ethnic summarizers are similarly anodyne.
things like the Rooney rule, i don't feel qualified to speak about, but in general i feel if you are good enough in your field you will make it regardless of color or gender (unless your a he-she which is a different color horse completely..). positive discrimination is dangerous path, unless you really think there is institutionalized racism that pervades society. I agree there is plenty of casual racism about but i don't feel this country has an issue with institutionalized racism impacting people prospects in life, and perhaps it is used an excuse.
tin hat on
i don't really care apart from a sports commentary/analysis perspective. But Woman on TMS (test match special) commentating, are bloody awful imo, sheer tokenism, box ticking. Ebony Rainsford Smith commentating on the T20 today, adds nothing states the obvious, boring voice. Now there are plenty of male commentators like that too, but she wouldn't be doing the job if she wasn't a woman, and even bigger bonus a minority.
Its the same in football, Garth Crooks is a fantastic (imo, if oft derided by many) summarizer/analyst and very entertaining, and Thierry Henry, Chris Kamara are respectively good analysts/entertaining and the lesser seen Andy Cole and Jason Roberts are good summarizers too although get no airtime. Jacqui Oatley is good too.
However Jermaine Jenas on the other hand adds nothing and is simply a box tick for the bbc, youngish, yes, minority yes, can formulate a sentence, yes. Ignoring the fact he has an average player, is boring, adds nothing and states the obvious constantly, although again lots of non ethnic summarizers are similarly anodyne.
things like the Rooney rule, i don't feel qualified to speak about, but in general i feel if you are good enough in your field you will make it regardless of color or gender (unless your a he-she which is a different color horse completely..). positive discrimination is dangerous path, unless you really think there is institutionalized racism that pervades society. I agree there is plenty of casual racism about but i don't feel this country has an issue with institutionalized racism impacting people prospects in life, and perhaps it is used an excuse.
tin hat on
The problem is it's like most things - what sounds OK in principle is taken to extremes.
If you have two similar candidates for a role, the theory is that you choose the minority to balance your workforce a bit - whereas in the old days you might choose the Caucasian man.
However - if you've got two candidates, one of which is eminently suitable and one of which is hopeless, choosing the hopeless candidate just because he (she) ticks a few minority boxes really doesn't help anybody.
If you have two similar candidates for a role, the theory is that you choose the minority to balance your workforce a bit - whereas in the old days you might choose the Caucasian man.
However - if you've got two candidates, one of which is eminently suitable and one of which is hopeless, choosing the hopeless candidate just because he (she) ticks a few minority boxes really doesn't help anybody.
Edited by davek_964 on Tuesday 13th February 12:53
Every programme seems to have LBGT story lines , every other couple is in a mixed race relationship .
Our TV doesn't give a true representation of society , although I have encountered all of the above and have no problem with them being represented but they are in the minority and in many areas of the country are a very tiny minority , are they trying to make up for them not being represented in the past ?
Our TV doesn't give a true representation of society , although I have encountered all of the above and have no problem with them being represented but they are in the minority and in many areas of the country are a very tiny minority , are they trying to make up for them not being represented in the past ?
bristolracer said:
Those who make the rules do not agree,and find your opinion distasteful and offensive.
They will, in time have your right to free speech removed as it does not comply.
As far as they are concerned an all inclusive society will not include you, as you have different opinions.
Pretty much They will, in time have your right to free speech removed as it does not comply.
As far as they are concerned an all inclusive society will not include you, as you have different opinions.
theplayingmantis said:
However Jermaine Jenas on the other hand adds nothing and is simply a box tick for the bbc, youngish, yes, minority yes, can formulate a sentence, yes. Ignoring the fact he has an average player, is boring, adds nothing and states the obvious constantly, although again lots of non ethnic summarizers are similarly anodyne.
Indeed he was a mediocre player, but I think he's quite good on the telly. Articulate, well spoken, former PL/international footballers, there isn't a huge pool of talent to choose from. theplayingmantis said:
Its the same in football, Garth Crooks is a fantastic (imo, if oft derided by many) summarizer/analyst and very entertaining, and Thierry Henry, Chris Kamara are respectively good analysts/entertaining and the lesser seen Andy Cole and Jason Roberts are good summarizers too although get no airtime. Jacqui Oatley is good too.
However Jermaine Jenas on the other hand adds nothing and is simply a box tick for the bbc, youngish, yes, minority yes, can formulate a sentence, yes. Ignoring the fact he has an average player, is boring, adds nothing and states the obvious constantly, although again lots of non ethnic summarizers are similarly anodyne.
Trouble with the BBC is that they seem to have forgotten the point of pundits on the TV, and are more focused on getting lots of former England internationals, even if they only made half a dozen appearances as a sub. Or at the big tournaments they'll get former international players on board. And a lot of them don't really have enough experience on TV to make it work. They need to focus on quality rather than quantity and work with a few with potential and build up their confidence. I remember when Alan Shearer first started I wasn't too impressed, but over time he loosened up and you could see he became more relaxed, now I rate him quite highly.However Jermaine Jenas on the other hand adds nothing and is simply a box tick for the bbc, youngish, yes, minority yes, can formulate a sentence, yes. Ignoring the fact he has an average player, is boring, adds nothing and states the obvious constantly, although again lots of non ethnic summarizers are similarly anodyne.
I also find that they like to play it safe, and spend too much time gushing compliments over a fancy bit of footwork rather than analyse the game properly. And then cut to some montage of 2 second clips, so reducing the amount of time they can discuss the game even further.
Without wishing to sound like an old fogey (I'm "only" 37), I remember Alan Hansen and Ruud Gullit have a few proper discussions/disagreements during the coverage of France '98. Sadly you don't get this much any more (and I don't count Lawro being an arse for arse's sake)
bristolracer said:
Those who make the rules do not agree,and find your opinion distasteful and offensive.
They will, in time have your right to free speech removed as it does not comply.
As far as they are concerned an all inclusive society will not include you, as you have different opinions.
Right to free speech? In the UK? We haven't had that for years, it's hardly a free speech right when it contains a dozen openly worded caveats for what the courts can decide, actually isn't free speech. They will, in time have your right to free speech removed as it does not comply.
As far as they are concerned an all inclusive society will not include you, as you have different opinions.
https://youtu.be/lmZmDNRDb2c
theplayingmantis said:
Ebony Rainsford Smith commentating on the T20 today, adds nothing states the obvious, boring voice. Now there are plenty of male commentators like that too, but she wouldn't be doing the job if she wasn't a woman
While generally I hate all things PC, and agree with you in principle, allow me to play devils advocate a minute - in the same sentence you say she wouldn't have got the gig with her boring voice etc if she was a man, but also that there are plenty of male commentators like that too.. which suggests she could get the job if she was a man.Or am I reading it wrong?
(know nothing about cricket by the way)
I try to be good, honest.
But I have had it up to there with the BBC paying Claire Balding loads of money to chat up fillies on her programmes. I watched the Olympics programme last night, and she was ignoring two blokes sat at the table while she made eyes at the blonde bombshell sat next to her. I like the Winter Olympics more than the summer games, but her performances are close to making it impossible.
And on Saturday I settled down to listen to the live commentary on the West Ham match on R4 live (digital) and the female commentator was appalling. Five minutes into the match and she was still describing the team kits and players' haircuts. She was pausing all the time as she obviously had to refer to her notes for the players' names - I thought the signal was buffering, it was that bad - and of course, that awful upwards inflexion on the end of every single phrase that only the worst commentators can manage. I quite like listening to a game on the radio when it is done well, just like TMS, but this was torture.
But I have had it up to there with the BBC paying Claire Balding loads of money to chat up fillies on her programmes. I watched the Olympics programme last night, and she was ignoring two blokes sat at the table while she made eyes at the blonde bombshell sat next to her. I like the Winter Olympics more than the summer games, but her performances are close to making it impossible.
And on Saturday I settled down to listen to the live commentary on the West Ham match on R4 live (digital) and the female commentator was appalling. Five minutes into the match and she was still describing the team kits and players' haircuts. She was pausing all the time as she obviously had to refer to her notes for the players' names - I thought the signal was buffering, it was that bad - and of course, that awful upwards inflexion on the end of every single phrase that only the worst commentators can manage. I quite like listening to a game on the radio when it is done well, just like TMS, but this was torture.
daddy cool said:
theplayingmantis said:
Ebony Rainsford Smith commentating on the T20 today, adds nothing states the obvious, boring voice. Now there are plenty of male commentators like that too, but she wouldn't be doing the job if she wasn't a woman
While generally I hate all things PC, and agree with you in principle, allow me to play devils advocate a minute - in the same sentence you say she wouldn't have got the gig with her boring voice etc if she was a man, but also that there are plenty of male commentators like that too.. which suggests she could get the job if she was a man.Or am I reading it wrong?
(know nothing about cricket by the way)
Roofless Toothless said:
But I have had it up to there with the BBC paying Claire Balding loads of money to chat up fillies on her programmes. I watched the Olympics programme last night, and she was ignoring two blokes sat at the table while she made eyes at the blonde bombshell sat next to her. I like the Winter Olympics more than the summer games, but her performances are close to making it impossible.
Christ, that women is unbearable. Doesn't matter what the event is, she'll be wandering around trying to find someone famous to talk to. And if she's not doing that it's a constant stream of name-dropping - who she had dinner with last night, who came to say hello, who she saw 5 minutes ago, how she's best friends with so and so, etc etc...I think Britain would benefit with a return to the 1970's era of mentality - nobody'd heard of political correctness from what I've been told. I wasn't alive in the 70's but can only imagine people were more natural and happier because of it. People could speak their mind / the truth without offending a 'snowflake' or jobsworth and getting themselves sued, sacked or even incarcerated. Everything's all too serious and clinical now. PC's taken off at an exponential rate and ran away - I seem to recall hearing the term 'political correctness' for the first time in 1997 when the labour party became elected. Tony Blair imported millions of immigrants and now the countries lost its identity. What are the chances of a u-turn? Currently I'm considering where my future lies and I have to say, it's not in Britain which is difficult to accept.
Zetec-S said:
Roofless Toothless said:
But I have had it up to there with the BBC paying Claire Balding loads of money to chat up fillies on her programmes. I watched the Olympics programme last night, and she was ignoring two blokes sat at the table while she made eyes at the blonde bombshell sat next to her. I like the Winter Olympics more than the summer games, but her performances are close to making it impossible.
Christ, that women is unbearable. Doesn't matter what the event is, she'll be wandering around trying to find someone famous to talk to. And if she's not doing that it's a constant stream of name-dropping - who she had dinner with last night, who came to say hello, who she saw 5 minutes ago, how she's best friends with so and so, etc etc...One day, and I bet it'll happen at Cheltenham next month, he'll try and give Ruby Walsh a lie detector and accuse a horse of being rude.
StairDominator said:
I think Britain would benefit with a return to the 1970's era of mentality - nobody'd heard of political correctness from what I've been told. I wasn't alive in the 70's but can only imagine people were more natural and happier because of it. People could speak their mind / the truth without offending a 'snowflake' or jobsworth and getting themselves sued, sacked or even incarcerated. Everything's all too serious and clinical now. PC's taken off at an exponential rate and ran away - I seem to recall hearing the term 'political correctness' for the first time in 1997 when the labour party became elected. Tony Blair imported millions of immigrants and now the countries lost its identity. What are the chances of a u-turn? Currently I'm considering where my future lies and I have to say, it's not in Britain which is difficult to accept.
StairDominator said:
I think Britain would benefit with a return to the 1970's era of mentality - nobody'd heard of political correctness from what I've been told. I wasn't alive in the 70's but can only imagine people were more natural and happier because of it. People could speak their mind / the truth without offending a 'snowflake' or jobsworth and getting themselves sued, sacked or even incarcerated. Everything's all too serious and clinical now. PC's taken off at an exponential rate and ran away - I seem to recall hearing the term 'political correctness' for the first time in 1997 when the labour party became elected. Tony Blair imported millions of immigrants and now the countries lost its identity. What are the chances of a u-turn? Currently I'm considering where my future lies and I have to say, it's not in Britain which is difficult to accept.
Yep the 70s were great. If you were white, middle class, and male.Pretty s
t for everyone else though.And yes I lived through it and yes I am white middle class and male
StairDominator said:
I think Britain would benefit with a return to the 1970's era of mentality - nobody'd heard of political correctness from what I've been told. I wasn't alive in the 70's but can only imagine people were more natural and happier because of it. People could speak their mind / the truth without offending a 'snowflake' or jobsworth and getting themselves sued, sacked or even incarcerated. Everything's all too serious and clinical now. PC's taken off at an exponential rate and ran away - I seem to recall hearing the term 'political correctness' for the first time in 1997 when the labour party became elected. Tony Blair imported millions of immigrants and now the countries lost its identity. What are the chances of a u-turn? Currently I'm considering where my future lies and I have to say, it's not in Britain which is difficult to accept.
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