Why is the NHS so broken?
Discussion
i think you may be comparing apples and oranges to an extent.
Frances health system is not a fully state funded system people are expected to fund their own top up insurance.
I think the NHS has strayed to far from the original intention of a cradle to grave basic health service
I would not be adverse to a system like france's if the basic health system in this country was better
Should the nhs be funding fertilization treatments? while the ability not have kids without medical intervention is regrettable i do not think it is something a national health service should be addressing as it is not a basic health care requirement.
Frances health system is not a fully state funded system people are expected to fund their own top up insurance.
I think the NHS has strayed to far from the original intention of a cradle to grave basic health service
I would not be adverse to a system like france's if the basic health system in this country was better
Should the nhs be funding fertilization treatments? while the ability not have kids without medical intervention is regrettable i do not think it is something a national health service should be addressing as it is not a basic health care requirement.
citizensm1th said:
i think you may be comparing apples and oranges to an extent.
Frances health system is not a fully state funded system people are expected to fund their own top up insurance.
I think the NHS has strayed to far from the original intention of a cradle to grave basic health service
I would not be adverse to a system like france's if the basic health system in this country was better
Should the nhs be funding fertilization treatments? while the ability not have kids without medical intervention is regrettable i do not think it is something a national health service should be addressing as it is not a basic health care requirement.
Blimey! We agree.Frances health system is not a fully state funded system people are expected to fund their own top up insurance.
I think the NHS has strayed to far from the original intention of a cradle to grave basic health service
I would not be adverse to a system like france's if the basic health system in this country was better
Should the nhs be funding fertilization treatments? while the ability not have kids without medical intervention is regrettable i do not think it is something a national health service should be addressing as it is not a basic health care requirement.
citizensm1th said:
Should the nhs be funding fertilization treatments? while the ability not have kids without medical intervention is regrettable i do not think it is something a national health service should be addressing as it is not a basic health care requirement.
It's an interesting question, and possibly not. This said, Sarah is now pregnant following our recent IVF, so I'd be inclined to err on the side of yes 
Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:
citizensm1th said:
Should the nhs be funding fertilization treatments? while the ability not have kids without medical intervention is regrettable i do not think it is something a national health service should be addressing as it is not a basic health care requirement.
It's an interesting question, and possibly not. This said, Sarah is now pregnant following our recent IVF, so I'd be inclined to err on the side of yes tight fart said:
Because of the chronic waste and overspending.
What makes you think that? Studies almost universally rank the NHS as one of the most efficient health services in the world. It's not broken. The issues it does experience such as poor cancer survival rates compared to europe, lack of beds and overwhelmed A&E departments are due to a decade or so of under-spending on infrastructure. Attempts to paper over this with s
tty PFI deals have just cost us more for worse service. SystemParanoia said:
Neither I nor anyone I know has anything but praise for The nhs. No bad experiences beyond the occasional 4hr A&E waits due to sicker people being there.
In general it is more good than bad. Some family members have ended up in hospital for various reasons. I've been surprised that they have not had non-invasive, but expensive, scans which they would have got overseas, even if those scans had to be paid for by their private insurance who would not have batted an eyelid.
It is public health, which means health to a set budget. The NHS does choose not to fund some drugs or treatments if it does not meet their cost-benefit criteria (on a population wide level, not on an individual level).
citizensm1th said:
Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:
citizensm1th said:
Should the nhs be funding fertilization treatments? while the ability not have kids without medical intervention is regrettable i do not think it is something a national health service should be addressing as it is not a basic health care requirement.
It's an interesting question, and possibly not. This said, Sarah is now pregnant following our recent IVF, so I'd be inclined to err on the side of yes I'm split. I get that it isn't essential care, yet it's come good for us. The prime reason for existing (IMO) is to reproduce, so if someone struggles to, is giving medical support appropriate? You'll forgive me for not voting against it!
Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:
Seconded. It's staff do a mighty fine job, for little (financial) reward.
Nurse's Pay - "Fully qualified nurses start on salaries of £22,128 rising to £28,746 on Band 5 of the NHS Agenda for Change Pay Rates. Salaries in London attract a high-cost area supplement. With experience, in positions such as nurse team leader on Band 6, salaries progress to £26,565 to £35,577."Doctors' Pay - "There are around 45,000 hospital consultants who are paid between £74,504 a year and £100,446 a year. Salaries for the UK's 42,000 GPs vary from an average of £103,000 a year for partners in practices to anything between £53,781 and £81,158 for GPs employed by Primary Care Trusts."
Paramedics' Pay - "Paramedic salaries start in Band 5, which ranges from £21,909 to £28,462. For team leaders or senior paramedics who have undertaken extended skills training in critical care or trauma, salaries are in Band 6, which fall between £26,302 and £35,225."
Of course there are many carers and so on less pay than the above.
Current UK average wage is £27,600. So basically the above NHS staff are paid more than most UK full time workers. Doesn't this mean that NHS staff are HIGHLY PAID? Why all the "low paid nurses stories"? I know many people who would love these "low" NHS salaries (that they are paying for with their taxes).
MikeStroud said:
Nurse's Pay - "Fully qualified nurses start on salaries of £22,128 rising to £28,746 on Band 5 of the NHS Agenda for Change Pay Rates. Salaries in London attract a high-cost area supplement. With experience, in positions such as nurse team leader on Band 6, salaries progress to £26,565 to £35,577."
Doctors' Pay - "There are around 45,000 hospital consultants who are paid between £74,504 a year and £100,446 a year. Salaries for the UK's 42,000 GPs vary from an average of £103,000 a year for partners in practices to anything between £53,781 and £81,158 for GPs employed by Primary Care Trusts."
Paramedics' Pay - "Paramedic salaries start in Band 5, which ranges from £21,909 to £28,462. For team leaders or senior paramedics who have undertaken extended skills training in critical care or trauma, salaries are in Band 6, which fall between £26,302 and £35,225."
Of course there are many carers and so on less pay than the above.
Current UK average wage is £27,600. So basically the above NHS staff are paid more than most UK full time workers. Doesn't this mean that NHS staff are HIGHLY PAID? Why all the "low paid nurses stories"? I know many people who would love these "low" NHS salaries (that they are paying for with their taxes).
Multiply those numbers by 1.3 to get a more accurate reflection of total remuneration!Doctors' Pay - "There are around 45,000 hospital consultants who are paid between £74,504 a year and £100,446 a year. Salaries for the UK's 42,000 GPs vary from an average of £103,000 a year for partners in practices to anything between £53,781 and £81,158 for GPs employed by Primary Care Trusts."
Paramedics' Pay - "Paramedic salaries start in Band 5, which ranges from £21,909 to £28,462. For team leaders or senior paramedics who have undertaken extended skills training in critical care or trauma, salaries are in Band 6, which fall between £26,302 and £35,225."
Of course there are many carers and so on less pay than the above.
Current UK average wage is £27,600. So basically the above NHS staff are paid more than most UK full time workers. Doesn't this mean that NHS staff are HIGHLY PAID? Why all the "low paid nurses stories"? I know many people who would love these "low" NHS salaries (that they are paying for with their taxes).
sidicks said:
MikeStroud said:
Nurse's Pay - "Fully qualified nurses start on salaries of £22,128 rising to £28,746 on Band 5 of the NHS Agenda for Change Pay Rates. Salaries in London attract a high-cost area supplement. With experience, in positions such as nurse team leader on Band 6, salaries progress to £26,565 to £35,577."
Doctors' Pay - "There are around 45,000 hospital consultants who are paid between £74,504 a year and £100,446 a year. Salaries for the UK's 42,000 GPs vary from an average of £103,000 a year for partners in practices to anything between £53,781 and £81,158 for GPs employed by Primary Care Trusts."
Paramedics' Pay - "Paramedic salaries start in Band 5, which ranges from £21,909 to £28,462. For team leaders or senior paramedics who have undertaken extended skills training in critical care or trauma, salaries are in Band 6, which fall between £26,302 and £35,225."
Of course there are many carers and so on less pay than the above.
Current UK average wage is £27,600. So basically the above NHS staff are paid more than most UK full time workers. Doesn't this mean that NHS staff are HIGHLY PAID? Why all the "low paid nurses stories"? I know many people who would love these "low" NHS salaries (that they are paying for with their taxes).
Multiply those numbers by 1.3 to get a more accurate reflection of total remuneration!Doctors' Pay - "There are around 45,000 hospital consultants who are paid between £74,504 a year and £100,446 a year. Salaries for the UK's 42,000 GPs vary from an average of £103,000 a year for partners in practices to anything between £53,781 and £81,158 for GPs employed by Primary Care Trusts."
Paramedics' Pay - "Paramedic salaries start in Band 5, which ranges from £21,909 to £28,462. For team leaders or senior paramedics who have undertaken extended skills training in critical care or trauma, salaries are in Band 6, which fall between £26,302 and £35,225."
Of course there are many carers and so on less pay than the above.
Current UK average wage is £27,600. So basically the above NHS staff are paid more than most UK full time workers. Doesn't this mean that NHS staff are HIGHLY PAID? Why all the "low paid nurses stories"? I know many people who would love these "low" NHS salaries (that they are paying for with their taxes).
The question for most grown ups is: do the life saving skills that doctors, nurses and paramedics mean they should be in the top half, or the bottom half of national pay.
I wonder. I wonder why you're even asking that question.
Bizarre.
MikeStroud said:
Nurse's Pay - "Fully qualified nurses start on salaries of £22,128 rising to £28,746 on Band 5 of the NHS Agenda for Change Pay Rates. Salaries in London attract a high-cost area supplement. With experience, in positions such as nurse team leader on Band 6, salaries progress to £26,565 to £35,577."
Doctors' Pay - "There are around 45,000 hospital consultants who are paid between £74,504 a year and £100,446 a year. Salaries for the UK's 42,000 GPs vary from an average of £103,000 a year for partners in practices to anything between £53,781 and £81,158 for GPs employed by Primary Care Trusts."
Paramedics' Pay - "Paramedic salaries start in Band 5, which ranges from £21,909 to £28,462. For team leaders or senior paramedics who have undertaken extended skills training in critical care or trauma, salaries are in Band 6, which fall between £26,302 and £35,225."
Of course there are many carers and so on less pay than the above.
Current UK average wage is £27,600. So basically the above NHS staff are paid more than most UK full time workers. Doesn't this mean that NHS staff are HIGHLY PAID? Why all the "low paid nurses stories"? I know many people who would love these "low" NHS salaries (that they are paying for with their taxes).
Forgot to add: if you know so many people who would love those wages, why not tell them there's a shortage of staff. All they need to do is get a degree, do loads of training, and then simply put up with the stress and unsociable hours.Doctors' Pay - "There are around 45,000 hospital consultants who are paid between £74,504 a year and £100,446 a year. Salaries for the UK's 42,000 GPs vary from an average of £103,000 a year for partners in practices to anything between £53,781 and £81,158 for GPs employed by Primary Care Trusts."
Paramedics' Pay - "Paramedic salaries start in Band 5, which ranges from £21,909 to £28,462. For team leaders or senior paramedics who have undertaken extended skills training in critical care or trauma, salaries are in Band 6, which fall between £26,302 and £35,225."
Of course there are many carers and so on less pay than the above.
Current UK average wage is £27,600. So basically the above NHS staff are paid more than most UK full time workers. Doesn't this mean that NHS staff are HIGHLY PAID? Why all the "low paid nurses stories"? I know many people who would love these "low" NHS salaries (that they are paying for with their taxes).
Do let us know how they get on.
Its complicated.
One of the problems=
My A and E is crippled by the fact it’s trolleys are blocked because the amount of beds in the hospital has decreased since I started 20 years ago. Add on the problem they ( labour in Wales ) closed a few local hospitals that usually dealt in the elderly convalescing.
Add to that, top management who don’t spend long in their post massage statistics to make themselves ‘look good’ so they can move on to the next trust with a tick on their cv’s. Then telling MP’s like Jeremy hunt ‘everything Is fine at my hospital, look at my statistics ‘
One of the problems=
My A and E is crippled by the fact it’s trolleys are blocked because the amount of beds in the hospital has decreased since I started 20 years ago. Add on the problem they ( labour in Wales ) closed a few local hospitals that usually dealt in the elderly convalescing.
Add to that, top management who don’t spend long in their post massage statistics to make themselves ‘look good’ so they can move on to the next trust with a tick on their cv’s. Then telling MP’s like Jeremy hunt ‘everything Is fine at my hospital, look at my statistics ‘
Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:
SystemParanoia said:
Neither I nor anyone I know has anything but praise for The nhs. No bad experiences beyond the occasional 4hr A&E waits due to sicker people being there.
Seconded. It's staff do a mighty fine job, for little (financial) reward. They are not all saints by a long stretch.
25% are good.
50% are average and do what they should do/ need to do.
25% should leave because they have little to no interest in the job/ welfare of their patients.
I've seen it first hand.
I don't understand where this idea that all those who work in the medical profession are beyond reproach.
There are plenty of lazy, workshy, incompetents in the NHS - including Doctors and nurses.
Ian Geary said:
Forgot to add: if you know so many people who would love those wages, why not tell them there's a shortage of staff. All they need to do is get a degree, do loads of training, and then simply put up with the stress and unsociable hours.
Do let us know how they get on.
Agreed to both your posts.Do let us know how they get on.
It's not like you can compare a Dr's or Nurses job with many, if any,other jobs is it?
Why was the salaries of Managers , or whatever they are known as these days, included
in the breakdown?
I had occasion to spend some time over the past 2 years in a Macmillan ward, both as a bed and out patient. Some of the staff there are what I suppose would be called auxiliary nurses, not fully qualified. There wages were under £8 ph, and without these nurse
the ward will have really, really, struggled to cope.
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