Rejecting a car after 8 months?
Discussion
Hi all,
I bought an F56 Mini Cooper S from a main dealer around 9 months ago. The car is a 2015 plate and had 7k miles on it when I bought it.
Normally I wouldn't disclose what I've paid/what I'm paying but I'm fairly sure it'll be needed for advice.
It is on a hire purchase agreement, I put down my old car as PX - 5.5k.
33 Months at 400 a month, I have 24 months left of the agreement.
Within a week of picking the car up it was pulling to the left - it went back for an alignment, didn't resolve. (2/3 weeks after purchase)
Second time it went back for this issue - new steering rack - didn't resolve. (Month after purchase)
A rattle started from the front end over broken surfaces - brakes were 'Cleaned', didn't resolve. Dealer said it was normal. (2/3 months after purchase)
Noticed very uneven wear on the front tyres, one down to the chords on the inner edge, other perfectly fine. Took it back and showed the dealer the tyres as well as the service invoices from their previous attempts to resolve the pull to the left. They blamed the tyres, told me to get new ones fitted as the uneven wear was causing the pull to the left. Fitted new tyres, no improvement (5 Months)
Noticed that the paint in my door apertures was worn away down to bare metal, booked the car in to have them repainted under warranty (known issue). While the car was in I also told them to investigate the rattle from the front end again, they identified it as cracked front wishbones, they aligned the car after replacing these and it now tracks straight however the rattle is still audible. (7 Months)
Starting to get a bit wound up at this point, I messaged Mini UK on Facebook telling them of my concerns. They escalated the issues to the dealer who booked the car back in again. I took the workshop foreman out on a test drive to replicate the noise - identified as front right calliper and carrier. Both replaced under warranty - rattle seems quieter however harsh road surfaces bring it out again. I also now have a 'plasticy' clunk when the front right of the car drops like when driving over patched areas of the road or cats eyes. ( 8 Months)
Went to wash the car on Saturday, didn't bother as I've noticed patches all over the front bumper where the lacquer is flaking off the paint! - Was initially worried this was caused by stone chips but after a bit of searching a few others have had this issue.
Looking for advice on what my options are here? I understand that to reject the car I would need to prove that the issue has been apparent since the first 6 months which I can as I have the service invoices from all the previous work. I like the car, but I'm constantly driving around in boggo spec courtesy cars while the dealer fail to resolve the issues with mine. - Not to mention I need to pay for my own temporary insurance each time as the dealer wont cover under 21s.
I don't have an issue with the dealer giving me a replacement car if they can't refund me, but the car now has 15k miles on it so I can see them being tricky about me trying to reject it.
Advice?
I bought an F56 Mini Cooper S from a main dealer around 9 months ago. The car is a 2015 plate and had 7k miles on it when I bought it.
Normally I wouldn't disclose what I've paid/what I'm paying but I'm fairly sure it'll be needed for advice.
It is on a hire purchase agreement, I put down my old car as PX - 5.5k.
33 Months at 400 a month, I have 24 months left of the agreement.
Within a week of picking the car up it was pulling to the left - it went back for an alignment, didn't resolve. (2/3 weeks after purchase)
Second time it went back for this issue - new steering rack - didn't resolve. (Month after purchase)
A rattle started from the front end over broken surfaces - brakes were 'Cleaned', didn't resolve. Dealer said it was normal. (2/3 months after purchase)
Noticed very uneven wear on the front tyres, one down to the chords on the inner edge, other perfectly fine. Took it back and showed the dealer the tyres as well as the service invoices from their previous attempts to resolve the pull to the left. They blamed the tyres, told me to get new ones fitted as the uneven wear was causing the pull to the left. Fitted new tyres, no improvement (5 Months)
Noticed that the paint in my door apertures was worn away down to bare metal, booked the car in to have them repainted under warranty (known issue). While the car was in I also told them to investigate the rattle from the front end again, they identified it as cracked front wishbones, they aligned the car after replacing these and it now tracks straight however the rattle is still audible. (7 Months)
Starting to get a bit wound up at this point, I messaged Mini UK on Facebook telling them of my concerns. They escalated the issues to the dealer who booked the car back in again. I took the workshop foreman out on a test drive to replicate the noise - identified as front right calliper and carrier. Both replaced under warranty - rattle seems quieter however harsh road surfaces bring it out again. I also now have a 'plasticy' clunk when the front right of the car drops like when driving over patched areas of the road or cats eyes. ( 8 Months)
Went to wash the car on Saturday, didn't bother as I've noticed patches all over the front bumper where the lacquer is flaking off the paint! - Was initially worried this was caused by stone chips but after a bit of searching a few others have had this issue.
Looking for advice on what my options are here? I understand that to reject the car I would need to prove that the issue has been apparent since the first 6 months which I can as I have the service invoices from all the previous work. I like the car, but I'm constantly driving around in boggo spec courtesy cars while the dealer fail to resolve the issues with mine. - Not to mention I need to pay for my own temporary insurance each time as the dealer wont cover under 21s.
I don't have an issue with the dealer giving me a replacement car if they can't refund me, but the car now has 15k miles on it so I can see them being tricky about me trying to reject it.
Advice?
With the age of the car, the number of miles you've done and the fact they've repaired the initial issue - I'd say you have little chance of rejection and it's not worth the hassle anyway. I'd be pushing for a repair or good-will gesture.
The clunk is likely a consequence of the faulty wishbones and the paint is classic BMW Mini.
Have you tried a friendly chat with the dealer principle? Failing that try a different dealer.
The clunk is likely a consequence of the faulty wishbones and the paint is classic BMW Mini.
Have you tried a friendly chat with the dealer principle? Failing that try a different dealer.
Very unlikely that you will be able to reject and rewind the whole deal at this stage . To reject you must hand the car back to them and stop using it immediately . Best case if you want out is to try for a favourable p/x from the same dealer .Or if you are done with Mini's then just p/x at another dealer for something better , the finance guys at dealers do this all day long !
TooMany2cvs said:
It's a long history, but what are the actual current issues? A clonk and some peeling lacquer?
Yep, sounds a bit silly when you summarize it but I've been justifying all the hassle by saying they aren't big issues. The issue is it doesn't seem to get resolved and then something else happens. The car will be out of warranty later in the year, I'd imagine the paint issues wouldn't be cheap to sort.Understandable on not being able to reject, I've had the car for quite a while. I'm not keen on part exchanging because going by current values, I'll have lost 6k in 8 months...
The dealer are pretty much sick of the sight of me, and to be honest I get the feeling they think I'm at it until I take one of the techs out to replicate the noise.
What would you guys do? Should I just keep taking it back or should I be escalating it somehow? I've got the car booked back in for Thursday however the last time it was at the bodyshop they had it for nearly 3 weeks
The dealer are pretty much sick of the sight of me, and to be honest I get the feeling they think I'm at it until I take one of the techs out to replicate the noise.
What would you guys do? Should I just keep taking it back or should I be escalating it somehow? I've got the car booked back in for Thursday however the last time it was at the bodyshop they had it for nearly 3 weeks
Reading that list of problem, including a cracked wishbone, damaged caliper carrier and paint issues all on the same side. I am surprised no one has said it yet, but it sounds like it has been in an accident.
You say it was sold by a main dealer, but can you go into a little more detail,
Was it sold as a used approved car from a mini dealership, or was it a 'main dealer' for something else.
If it was used approved mini, start complaining to mini a lot, read the terms and conditions of a used approved sale, ask them to explain how all these problems go through thier 10 thousand point check or what ever they claim to provide.
Ask them to reimburse you for the money to cover the extra insurance, especially if it is not in the t&cs that you would have to pay, and if it is, was it highlighted to you?
Ask them to reimburse you for the tyres
Wishbones don't just break through normal driving, or even incredibly enthusiastic driving, unless that results in someone hitting something.
If it is their claim that it just broke, they aught to be investigating to see if they have a quality issue and may need to recall some cars.
You say it was sold by a main dealer, but can you go into a little more detail,
Was it sold as a used approved car from a mini dealership, or was it a 'main dealer' for something else.
If it was used approved mini, start complaining to mini a lot, read the terms and conditions of a used approved sale, ask them to explain how all these problems go through thier 10 thousand point check or what ever they claim to provide.
Ask them to reimburse you for the money to cover the extra insurance, especially if it is not in the t&cs that you would have to pay, and if it is, was it highlighted to you?
Ask them to reimburse you for the tyres
Wishbones don't just break through normal driving, or even incredibly enthusiastic driving, unless that results in someone hitting something.
If it is their claim that it just broke, they aught to be investigating to see if they have a quality issue and may need to recall some cars.
Your right was to reject within 30 days and you didn't.
Their obligation was to repair pre-existing faults for 6 months, which they have.
They now have to honour the balance of the manufacturers warranty, which the are.
What exactly are you threatening to escalate? It's a 3 year old car, it's not new any more.
Their obligation was to repair pre-existing faults for 6 months, which they have.
They now have to honour the balance of the manufacturers warranty, which the are.
What exactly are you threatening to escalate? It's a 3 year old car, it's not new any more.
They sold you a lemon.
Roughly 8 major or semi-major issues in 9 months for a 2-3-yearold car. And a possible crashed vehicle.
Get an indy vehicle report. Then book a face-to-face meeting with the top man at the dealer and write your list of demands on paper (insurance refund, inspection refund, replacement car, etc.). Be armed with the CRA 2015 legislation. If that doesn't work, go see a solicitor.
Roughly 8 major or semi-major issues in 9 months for a 2-3-yearold car. And a possible crashed vehicle.
Get an indy vehicle report. Then book a face-to-face meeting with the top man at the dealer and write your list of demands on paper (insurance refund, inspection refund, replacement car, etc.). Be armed with the CRA 2015 legislation. If that doesn't work, go see a solicitor.
ging84 said:
Reading that list of problem, including a cracked wishbone, damaged caliper carrier and paint issues all on the same side. I am surprised no one has said it yet, but it sounds like it has been in an accident.
You say it was sold by a main dealer, but can you go into a little more detail,
Was it sold as a used approved car from a mini dealership, or was it a 'main dealer' for something else.
If it was used approved mini, start complaining to mini a lot, read the terms and conditions of a used approved sale, ask them to explain how all these problems go through thier 10 thousand point check or what ever they claim to provide.
Ask them to reimburse you for the money to cover the extra insurance, especially if it is not in the t&cs that you would have to pay, and if it is, was it highlighted to you?
Ask them to reimburse you for the tyres
Wishbones don't just break through normal driving, or even incredibly enthusiastic driving, unless that results in someone hitting something.
If it is their claim that it just broke, they aught to be investigating to see if they have a quality issue and may need to recall some cars.
It was an approved used car from a Mini dealer. See to be honest, what you're suggesting definitely rings true. The car having previously been in an accident would explain most of the issues I've had with it so far. You say it was sold by a main dealer, but can you go into a little more detail,
Was it sold as a used approved car from a mini dealership, or was it a 'main dealer' for something else.
If it was used approved mini, start complaining to mini a lot, read the terms and conditions of a used approved sale, ask them to explain how all these problems go through thier 10 thousand point check or what ever they claim to provide.
Ask them to reimburse you for the money to cover the extra insurance, especially if it is not in the t&cs that you would have to pay, and if it is, was it highlighted to you?
Ask them to reimburse you for the tyres
Wishbones don't just break through normal driving, or even incredibly enthusiastic driving, unless that results in someone hitting something.
If it is their claim that it just broke, they aught to be investigating to see if they have a quality issue and may need to recall some cars.
To touch on a couple of the points you mentioned. The dealer told me that the cracked wishbones were a known issue, however doing a bit of searching all I can really find is issues relating to the wishbone bushes.
Your theory also got me thinking about when I originally went to see the car before buying. The front right wheel had been curbed so the dealer said they would refurbish it however when I picked the car up it had a different tyre on the wheel they had 'refurbished'. Possibly a buckled wheel from the accident that damaged that calliper? (Same corner)
I'll voice my concerns on Thursday when I'm dropping the car off. All the issues do seem like they could be related to an accident.
Going to print off the documents relating to their 100 point check as well.
Cheers!
hutchst said:
Your right was to reject within 30 days and you didn't.
Their obligation was to repair pre-existing faults for 6 months, which they have.
They now have to honour the balance of the manufacturers warranty, which the are.
What exactly are you threatening to escalate? It's a 3 year old car, it's not new any more.
If I'd known they wouldn't be able to resolve the issues then I would have rejected the car early on. Been a bit naive to keep thinking that they'd sort it so I've let it go on way too long. Their obligation was to repair pre-existing faults for 6 months, which they have.
They now have to honour the balance of the manufacturers warranty, which the are.
What exactly are you threatening to escalate? It's a 3 year old car, it's not new any more.
I thought that I might have a leg to stand on because I've got documents from them to show the issues have been ongoing since buying the car but I understand now that doesn't hold much water.
Cheers
Hammy98 said:
It was an approved used car from a Mini dealer. See to be honest, what you're suggesting definitely rings true. The car having previously been in an accident would explain most of the issues I've had with it so far.
I'll voice my concerns on Thursday when I'm dropping the car off. All the issues do seem like they could be related to an accident.
It was a used car.I'll voice my concerns on Thursday when I'm dropping the car off. All the issues do seem like they could be related to an accident.
Yes, it's entirely feasible it'd been bent and repaired (so not written off, so no category or record to show on an HPI). It happens. Even new cars have often had bodywork before delivery. Does the AUC scheme say "Nope, definitely never dinged in any way at all, ever. Promise."?
TooMany2cvs said:
It was a used car.
Yes, it's entirely feasible it'd been bent and repaired (so not written off, so no category or record to show on an HPI). It happens. Even new cars have often had bodywork before delivery. Does the AUC scheme say "Nope, definitely never dinged in any way at all, ever. Promise."?
If the car has been bent and repaired then for it to be sold as approved used then it would have to have been repaired at an approved mini repairer and as such surely they would know about it? I thought the dealer had to disclose information like that. If the car has been in an accident and hasn't been repaired through a mini approved repairer then it shouldn't qualify for their approved used scheme.Yes, it's entirely feasible it'd been bent and repaired (so not written off, so no category or record to show on an HPI). It happens. Even new cars have often had bodywork before delivery. Does the AUC scheme say "Nope, definitely never dinged in any way at all, ever. Promise."?
I understand your point on bodywork damage in transit, but it seems a bit suspect that there's been bodywork, tracking issues and some damaged components all relating to one area of the car.
hutchst said:
Your right was to reject within 30 days and you didn't.
Their obligation was to repair pre-existing faults for 6 months, which they have.
They now have to honour the balance of the manufacturers warranty, which the are.
What exactly are you threatening to escalate? It's a 3 year old car, it's not new any more.
Harsh, but fair comment.Their obligation was to repair pre-existing faults for 6 months, which they have.
They now have to honour the balance of the manufacturers warranty, which the are.
What exactly are you threatening to escalate? It's a 3 year old car, it's not new any more.
hutchst said:
Your right to reject was 30 days, and you didn't. You'll have a helluva job to reject it now after 8 months.
hutchst said:
Your right was to reject within 30 days and you didn't.
Their obligation was to repair pre-existing faults for 6 months, which they have.
They now have to honour the balance of the manufacturers warranty, which the are.
What exactly are you threatening to escalate? It's a 3 year old car, it's not new any more.
Sorry to correct you. But you have 30 days to hand a purchase back and walk away. You have 6 months from purchase where it's presumed a fault was inherent (but in reality you have to prove it was inherent) and up to 6 years from purchase which is subject to a lot of interpretation of what is satisfactory quality and expected and reasonable for that specific product. Their obligation was to repair pre-existing faults for 6 months, which they have.
They now have to honour the balance of the manufacturers warranty, which the are.
What exactly are you threatening to escalate? It's a 3 year old car, it's not new any more.
Charlie Croker mk2 said:
Very unlikely that you will be able to reject and rewind the whole deal at this stage . To reject you must hand the car back to them and stop using it immediately . Best case if you want out is to try for a favourable p/x from the same dealer .Or if you are done with Mini's then just p/x at another dealer for something better , the finance guys at dealers do this all day long !
You don't have to stop using the car, you are paying for it - but it does weaken your argument. The reality is, the OP has done 15K in a car which was clearly faulty, this means he's accepted the faults as minor enough to continue using the car. On the other hand the OP has clearly been pushing the dealer with the known faults so he's not happy.
At the end of the day, the OP has purchased a Mini, from a main dealer, used or not - it's very reasonable to have expectations that the car is going to be solid and reliable. At 3 years old, it's not going to be perfect, but you expect a good car from a main dealer, especially if it's been approved and inspected prior to sale.
If it was me, and this is coming from the voice of someone who's just fought BMW for the past year. Get a respected second opinion in the form of an independent report from a VAT registered garage with good online reviews - see what that says and go from there. At the moment you are arguing with a company with the reasonable expectation they are an expert, you are not. And your opinion on the fault is somewhat overshadowed.
EnthusiastOwned said:
You don't have to stop using the car, you are paying for it - but it does weaken your argument.
The reality is, the OP has done 15K in a car which was clearly faulty, this means he's accepted the faults as minor enough to continue using the car. On the other hand the OP has clearly been pushing the dealer with the known faults so he's not happy.
At the end of the day, the OP has purchased a Mini, from a main dealer, used or not - it's very reasonable to have expectations that the car is going to be solid and reliable. At 3 years old, it's not going to be perfect, but you expect a good car from a main dealer, especially if it's been approved and inspected prior to sale.
If it was me, and this is coming from the voice of someone who's just fought BMW for the past year. Get a respected second opinion in the form of an independent report from a VAT registered garage with good online reviews - see what that says and go from there. At the moment you are arguing with a company with the reasonable expectation they are an expert, you are not. And your opinion on the fault is somewhat overshadowed.
Cheers for this, I'm going to have a chat with them on thursday but if past discussions are anything to go by I'll most likely be taking your advice and getting an independent report from another garage - fairly sure there's a BMW & Mini specialist near me. The reality is, the OP has done 15K in a car which was clearly faulty, this means he's accepted the faults as minor enough to continue using the car. On the other hand the OP has clearly been pushing the dealer with the known faults so he's not happy.
At the end of the day, the OP has purchased a Mini, from a main dealer, used or not - it's very reasonable to have expectations that the car is going to be solid and reliable. At 3 years old, it's not going to be perfect, but you expect a good car from a main dealer, especially if it's been approved and inspected prior to sale.
If it was me, and this is coming from the voice of someone who's just fought BMW for the past year. Get a respected second opinion in the form of an independent report from a VAT registered garage with good online reviews - see what that says and go from there. At the moment you are arguing with a company with the reasonable expectation they are an expert, you are not. And your opinion on the fault is somewhat overshadowed.
When taking the car in for the independent report would I be suggesting that I think there's been an accident or just listing the issues it's had to see if they can shed any light?
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