High CO Emissions
Author
Discussion

rossh123

Original Poster:

13 posts

104 months

Sunday 4th March 2018
quotequote all
Hi All,

My Yaris has just gone over the CO limit on the MOT emissions test. Everything else is normal HC, Lambda etc.

The code P0172 is also showing which is "System Too Rich".

The car is 19 years old and when it's first started I can smell petrol outside and sometimes when I get out after driving it I can smell it too. I've tried Cataclean and i've also cleaned the MAF.

I'm thinking it's the CAT? Any thoughts?

Ross.

Mignon

1,018 posts

113 months

Sunday 4th March 2018
quotequote all
Whate are the actual readings?

rossh123

Original Poster:

13 posts

104 months

Sunday 4th March 2018
quotequote all
Mignon said:
Whate are the actual readings?
Fast Idle:

CO = 0.25 / Max = 0.20
HC = 17 / Max = 200
Lambda = 1.003 / Between 0.970 - 1.030

Natural Idle:

CO = 0.34 / Max = 0.30

Edited by rossh123 on Sunday 4th March 14:36

stevieturbo

17,971 posts

271 months

Sunday 4th March 2018
quotequote all
Check the lambda sensor is working correctly, although that really is barely a fail at all.....tester needs a slap. Was everything up to operating temperature ok and taken for a drive immediately prior to the test ?

GreenV8S

30,999 posts

308 months

Sunday 4th March 2018
quotequote all
The engine is close enough to a pass that I don't think the emissions are anything to do with the petrol smell, and at that age I suggest you check the condition of the fuel lines and tank to see whether you have any leaks.

rossh123

Original Poster:

13 posts

104 months

Sunday 4th March 2018
quotequote all
stevieturbo said:
Check the lambda sensor is working correctly, although that really is barely a fail at all.....tester needs a slap. Was everything up to operating temperature ok and taken for a drive immediately prior to the test ?
Yes it was up to operating temperature and driven beforehand. Not sure how I test the lambda sensor? The pre-cat sensor is only 2 years old.

OldGermanHeaps

4,991 posts

202 months

Sunday 4th March 2018
quotequote all
Coolant temp sensor?
You need to look at live sensor values to get a better idea of whats going on.

Edited by OldGermanHeaps on Sunday 4th March 18:35

Mignon

1,018 posts

113 months

Sunday 4th March 2018
quotequote all
CO is very slightly rich but lambda is not which says there must be oxygen in the exhaust system compensating for the CO reading. Check for exhaust leaks, especially at the manifold end.

rossh123

Original Poster:

13 posts

104 months

Sunday 4th March 2018
quotequote all
So does nobody think the catalyst could be the cause?

Sardonicus

19,339 posts

245 months

Sunday 4th March 2018
quotequote all
Do you have a post cat 02 sensor? whats its doing is it switching? that code is a system rich not a catalyst efficiency fault code/DTC if indeed you have a post cat 02 sensor scratchchin what vehicle ?

rossh123

Original Poster:

13 posts

104 months

Sunday 4th March 2018
quotequote all
Sardonicus said:
Do you have a post cat 02 sensor? whats its doing is it switching? that code is a system rich not a catalyst efficiency fault code/DTC if indeed you have a post cat 02 sensor scratchchin what vehicle ?
Yes it has a post-cat O2 sensor, it's a Yaris 1999 1.0L.

Sardonicus

19,339 posts

245 months

Sunday 4th March 2018
quotequote all
rossh123 said:
Sardonicus said:
Do you have a post cat 02 sensor? whats its doing is it switching? that code is a system rich not a catalyst efficiency fault code/DTC if indeed you have a post cat 02 sensor scratchchin what vehicle ?
Yes it has a post-cat O2 sensor, it's a Yaris 1999 1.0L.
You may need to check the air mass realtime live data & live readings in general but that does not sound like CAT failure IMO unless the post CAT O2 sensor is ghosting the pre CAT O2 readings of course hence why I mentioned monitoring live data scratchchin without this its hard to confirm

E-bmw

12,396 posts

176 months

Monday 5th March 2018
quotequote all
Mignon said:
CO is very slightly rich but lambda is not which says there must be oxygen in the exhaust system compensating for the CO reading. Check for exhaust leaks, especially at the manifold end.
^^^^Wot 'e said!

Sardonicus

19,339 posts

245 months

Monday 5th March 2018
quotequote all
E-bmw said:
Mignon said:
CO is very slightly rich but lambda is not which says there must be oxygen in the exhaust system compensating for the CO reading. Check for exhaust leaks, especially at the manifold end.
^^^^Wot 'e said!
Actually reading this post again I also agree wink and the tubular exhaust manifolds of this engine are prone to perforate on the primaries where they meet the head flanges old age etc, I have changed a few over the years scratchchin the blow starts off small so often goes undetected until a DTC pops up but by this time leaking is obvious

bmwmike

8,300 posts

132 months

Monday 5th March 2018
quotequote all
Could a clogged airfilter cause this?

Mr2Mike

20,143 posts

279 months

Monday 5th March 2018
quotequote all
rossh123 said:
Yes it was up to operating temperature and driven beforehand. Not sure how I test the lambda sensor? The pre-cat sensor is only 2 years old.
Was a cheap pattern part fitted? They don't last long IME.

GreenV8S

30,999 posts

308 months

Monday 5th March 2018
quotequote all
If the whole emissions system is working, you should see the lambda sensor output cycling between 'rich' and 'lean' signals every few seconds.

How those signals appear on a meter will depend on the sensor type but you should see the voltage on the signal line swing pretty clearly.

If one of the sensors is dirty, the system may cycle slower.

If there's a fault anywhere, it will probably be pegged rich or lean. That doesn't necessarily mean the sensor itself has failed - the fault could be elsewhere.

rossh123

Original Poster:

13 posts

104 months

Wednesday 7th March 2018
quotequote all
Mr2Mike said:
Was a cheap pattern part fitted? They don't last long IME.
No I bought the OEM lambda made by NGK.

rossh123

Original Poster:

13 posts

104 months

Wednesday 7th March 2018
quotequote all
Sardonicus said:
ctually reading this post again I also agree wink and the tubular exhaust manifolds of this engine are prone to perforate on the primaries where they meet the head flanges old age etc, I have changed a few over the years scratchchin the blow starts off small so often goes undetected until a DTC pops up but by this time leaking is obvious
I will check for exhaust leaks upstream of the cat. The manifold has recently been replaced so I doubt it's that.

Sardonicus

19,339 posts

245 months

Wednesday 7th March 2018
quotequote all
At the stage check pre cat area inc the new manifold joints but especially the flexible coupling ring with the springs and 2 bolts these can often be a source of leaks wink a piece of rubber hose held to one's ear and probing around the joints with the engine running is your friend