British Airways fleet questions

[LotusOmega375D]

1) Whenever I visit Heathrow, I always seem to see 3 or 4 of their A380s on stand. According to Planespotters.net they have 12 of these aircraft. Are they really being fully utilized? In fact when I was there last Thursday, they had to wheel one away empty because it was blocking our gate.

2) All of the 36 strong B747 fleet dates from the 20th century (with in-flight entertainment to match!). When and what will these be replaced with? The above website reckons that BA only has 7 planes on order (3 x A320; 4 x B787), so there's no really big planes to come. Most of their B777's are at least 17 - 23 years old, so they can't have long left either.

Anyone know how their long-haul fleet will develop?

[louiebaby]

Wikipedia suggests the order book may be a little different, but not necessarily any more reliable. Not had a look at their annual statements.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways

Long Haul Low-Cost is coming now, (see Norwegian, Level, and others.) Their business models are based on either the very new efficient wide-body twin engine high ETOPS rated aircraft (787 or A350 variants) or possibly the slightly older 777/A330 fleets as they come off fleet from the more premium airlines.

By the looks of the BA order book from Wikipedia, this matches up with BA as well.

ETOPS ratings are related to how far the aircraft can be from a viable landing flying on only one engine. Before the higher rated twin engine planes were developed, crossing large expanses of ocean had to be done with 4 engines, now transatlantic routes for instance are viable on the newer twin widebody aircraft.

ETOPS may or may not be an acronym for "Engines turn or passengers swim.".

[LotusOmega375D]

Yes the Wiki order book looks much healthier! I'm astonished to see that the 747s will be soldiering on until 2024. Still they've got no excuses for not upgrading the cabins then.

[CzechItOut]

louiebaby said:

Long Haul Low-Cost is coming now, (see Norwegian, Level, and others.)

is there a business model for Long Haul-Premium Cost - consisting of premium economy and upwards?

[Shakermaker]

They have a maximum of 8 flights a day scheduled to depart on an A380

But, they are often going to places which are more than a 24 hour round trip, so will be "out of action" for a period of the day until they get back on track with the same daily schedule. After all, the Singapore flight departs at the same time every day

And this is the time when they have cleaning and maintenance done

[RedLeicester]

Shakermaker said:

They have a maximum of 8 flights a day scheduled to depart on an A380

But, they are often going to places which are more than a 24 hour round trip, so will be "out of action" for a period of the day until they get back on track with the same daily schedule. After all, the Singapore flight departs at the same time every day

And this is the time when they have cleaning and maintenance done

3 of them to LAX alone.

[louiebaby]

CzechItOut said:

louiebaby said:

Long Haul Low-Cost is coming now, (see Norwegian, Level, and others.)

is there a business model for Long Haul-Premium Cost - consisting of premium economy and upwards?

I seem to remember someone was doing it (possibly from Stanstead to Newark for the London to New York route. They might have had "Blue" in their name. It's a good few years ago I saw it.

I've not come across any articles that run the numbers. About 10 years ago some of the BA New York to London flights had much less economy than normal, with more Premium, Bus and 1st. (We got shunted on to it, and a free upgrade to Premium.)

This article is about 10 years old, and stuff changes fast, but it gives an idea of the difficulties of Low Cost Long Haul:

https://dspace.lib.cranfield.ac.uk/bitstream/handl...

The interesting bit for me was related to revenue from Cargo dropping due to more passengers and therefore more bags on a Low Cost model. (Paragraph 1, page 16.)

[anonymous-user]

CzechItOut said:

is there a business model for Long Haul-Premium Cost - consisting of premium economy and upwards?

There was a couple of airlines that tried it about 10 years ago. Jet Blue and Silver Jet I think,

I went on a flight to LA - tired old set up but loads of room and very cheap. On the way out it was 100% full as Ricky Hatton was fighting - they had run out of booze by Iceland and there was nearly a mutiny!!

[louiebaby]

desolate said:

There was a couple of airlines that tried it about 10 years ago. Jet Blue and Silver Jet I think,

I went on a flight to LA - tired old set up but loads of room and very cheap. On the way out it was 100% full as Ricky Hatton was fighting - they had run out of booze by Iceland and there was nearly a mutiny!!

SilverJet was the one I was thinking about I think:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_class_airli...

[Shakermaker]

and BA still have their London City to New York route which is all business class - but only on a small A318 which stops in Ireland on the way out to refuel (and do customs clearance) - but that's only got 18 people on board maximum

[smack]

Shakermaker said:

and BA still have their London City to New York route which is all business class - but only on a small A318 which stops in Ireland on the way out to refuel (and do customs clearance) - but that's only got 18 people on board maximum

No, It has 32 Club Seats.

[Shakermaker]

smack said:

No, It has 32 Club Seats.

My mistake. 18 was something else..

[silverfoxcc]

I think the A380 SFO route return is over 24hrs


All times local

dep heathrow 14.30

11 hours in flight
SFO rrt 17.20

Dep SFO 19.35
LHR arr 14.00

[5150]

smack said:

Shakermaker said:

and BA still have their London City to New York route which is all business class - but only on a small A318 which stops in Ireland on the way out to refuel (and do customs clearance) - but that's only got 18 people on board maximum

No, It has 32 Club Seats.

I believe that route is operated by Titan Airways now on ACMI basis.

[schmunk]

louiebaby said:

ETOPS ratings are related to how far the aircraft can be from a viable landing flying on only one engine. Before the higher rated twin engine planes were developed, crossing large expanses of ocean had to be done with 4 engines, now transatlantic routes for instance are viable on the newer twin widebody aircraft.

ETOPS may or may not be an acronym for "Engines turn or passengers swim.".

Oh no, you've done it now. Ginetta G15 Girl will be here soon to tell you why you're wrong (even if you're not)...

[tim0409]

5150 said:

I believe that route is operated by Titan Airways now on ACMI basis.

I knew that BA sold one of their A318's to Titan (who now charter it) but wasn't aware that the LCY-JFK route was operated/wet leased by them as well.

I've flown on it a few times and thought it was a brilliant service.

[5150]

tim0409 said:

5150 said:

I believe that route is operated by Titan Airways now on ACMI basis.

I knew that BA sold one of their A318's to Titan (who now charter it) but wasn't aware that the LCY-JFK route was operated/wet leased by them as well.

I've flown on it a few times and thought it was a brilliant service.

Hi Tim,

Just a rumour I'd heard. Maybe they have done in the past/future, seeing as the aircraft/crew's are geared up for the steep approach into LCY. . .

[surveyor]

They are refurbishing some of the boneshakers (747), including the back end. The current economy product is very tired.

They are also refurbishing the Gatwick based 777 fleet - but economy are going from a 3-3-3 layout to 3-4-3.

I'm no longer impressed with the BA service product. They appear to be attempting to become Ryan Air of the premium airlines. It's a bit of an oxymoron.

[pushthebutton]

LotusOmega375D said:

so there's no really big planes to come. Most of their B777's are at least 17 - 23 years old, so they can't have long left either.

Anyone know how their long-haul fleet will develop?

All from memory without looking it up:

1) 25 (ish) 787s to far with at least 42 expected and possibly more on top.

2) 26 (I think) A350s.

3) 77X rumoured, but nothing concrete, as a replacement for the 777 fleet.

4) Sniffing around more new or secondhand A380s at the right price.

surveyor said:

They are refurbishing some of the boneshakers (747), including the back end. The current economy product is very tired.

They are also refurbishing the Gatwick based 777 fleet - but economy are going from a 3-3-3 layout to 3-4-3.

18 of the 36 remaining 747s had their cabin refit completed over a year ago I think

http://mediacentre.britishairways.com/pressrelease...

Going 10-across on the 777 at LGW actually brings BA into line with other 777 operators such as Air France, Emirates and Etihad and I've no doubt others will follow.

Edited by pushthebutton on Tuesday 6th March 22:51

[peter tdci]

RedLeicester said:

Shakermaker said:

They have a maximum of 8 flights a day scheduled to depart on an A380

But, they are often going to places which are more than a 24 hour round trip, so will be "out of action" for a period of the day until they get back on track with the same daily schedule. After all, the Singapore flight departs at the same time every day

And this is the time when they have cleaning and maintenance done

3 of them to LAX alone.

This means that the turnaround at Los Angeles can be quite quick though. Where there is only one flight a day then the aircraft can sit on a remote stand for hours.

If you look at a single aircraft, you can see where it goes and when - for instance G-XLEJ gets in and out of Los Angeles quickly, but can sit around for 6 hrs or longer everywhere else. https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/g-xlej