E36 M3 as family car
Discussion
Any thoughts and ideas would be appreciated. How realistic would a E36 M3 saloon be as a usable family car?
This would be a car used at weekends and holidays, about 7k miles a year. Mainly Yorkshire B roads with occasionally longer motorway trips with 4 people. Car stored on the drive.
I am looking for a vehicle that won't depreciate and is great to own and drive, not too complex and with an active forum community. I would do some maintenance myself. Insurance seems cheap enough and I can accept the fuel economy.
Is an M3 going to be too hard / harsh / tiring / noisy for longer trips? I'm not expecting barge comfort but it needs to be a nice place to be.
Budget is £10k.
Any thoughts are welcome.
This would be a car used at weekends and holidays, about 7k miles a year. Mainly Yorkshire B roads with occasionally longer motorway trips with 4 people. Car stored on the drive.
I am looking for a vehicle that won't depreciate and is great to own and drive, not too complex and with an active forum community. I would do some maintenance myself. Insurance seems cheap enough and I can accept the fuel economy.
Is an M3 going to be too hard / harsh / tiring / noisy for longer trips? I'm not expecting barge comfort but it needs to be a nice place to be.
Budget is £10k.
Any thoughts are welcome.
I'd like to think I can comment but we'll see.
I've previously owned an E36 323i Coupe Manual and now own an E46 M3.
The Coupes are more practical in some ways over the saloons ; the seats fold down in the Coupes but don't in the saloons as an example. However, the boots in E36 guise are a little smaller and your passengers wouldn't thank you much for being in the back for quite a bit of time ; it's not tight as such but the roofline is lower in an E36.
While certain M bits are more expensive like brakes, some suspension parts and engine bits rust would be my concern on an E36 ; it is for an E46 anyway!
I've dailyed my E46 M3 for over a year and it's slowing becoming a daily again! The mileage however does put off people no matter how well it is maintained; I've seen people buy a tired low miler over a mint high miler for example. That is something I'd consider for the daily, if you are thinking of investment potential. I'd see it more as a cheaper and cooler way of having fun, potentially
That said, my 944 Turbo with 200k on the clock now (I sold it on 180k) would have been worth way more than the £6.5k I sold it for in 2014 and that car was near perfect (new wings, sills, KWv3s, engine work, you get the idea). Back then however I don't think anyone considered that 944 Turbos would be changing hands for £20k as the 'norm', like they are now. You saw then a handful of 944 Turbos sell for that much and it really was the odd one!
If you're willing to go with the 944 Turbo type of gamble it may well be worth it. That was also sort of a daily and that cost me very little to keep on the road and probably has similar bills to an E36 M3; feel free to go through my Garage under my profile
.
I've previously owned an E36 323i Coupe Manual and now own an E46 M3.
The Coupes are more practical in some ways over the saloons ; the seats fold down in the Coupes but don't in the saloons as an example. However, the boots in E36 guise are a little smaller and your passengers wouldn't thank you much for being in the back for quite a bit of time ; it's not tight as such but the roofline is lower in an E36.
While certain M bits are more expensive like brakes, some suspension parts and engine bits rust would be my concern on an E36 ; it is for an E46 anyway!
I've dailyed my E46 M3 for over a year and it's slowing becoming a daily again! The mileage however does put off people no matter how well it is maintained; I've seen people buy a tired low miler over a mint high miler for example. That is something I'd consider for the daily, if you are thinking of investment potential. I'd see it more as a cheaper and cooler way of having fun, potentially
That said, my 944 Turbo with 200k on the clock now (I sold it on 180k) would have been worth way more than the £6.5k I sold it for in 2014 and that car was near perfect (new wings, sills, KWv3s, engine work, you get the idea). Back then however I don't think anyone considered that 944 Turbos would be changing hands for £20k as the 'norm', like they are now. You saw then a handful of 944 Turbos sell for that much and it really was the odd one!
If you're willing to go with the 944 Turbo type of gamble it may well be worth it. That was also sort of a daily and that cost me very little to keep on the road and probably has similar bills to an E36 M3; feel free to go through my Garage under my profile
.Edited by SebringMan on Thursday 8th March 19:26
It will rust, it won't handle well as standard, it will need plenty of maintenance/refreshing and I assume you will have a 2nd car for the times when it is off the road being repaired?
Would be a nice daily if you find a cared for one (maybe not for £10k) but make sure you have a spare car.
Would be a nice daily if you find a cared for one (maybe not for £10k) but make sure you have a spare car.
I’ve run one for around 5 years as a daily. It’s fine in all respects (town, motorway, practicality) however more recently I’ve noticed a lack of stock for items that need replacing in the uk and often have to be ordered in from Germany. This generally means the car is in at least a week each time it needs some maintenance.
Rust is an issue but will be on any car that age.
Check my garage for my running costs.
Rust is an issue but will be on any car that age.
Check my garage for my running costs.
Think if you find a good one it will be fine.
Keeping it good should mean you get some dosh back if you ever decide to sell, although it will take some effort. As you say there is a knowledgeable group of owners and forums to help. Better parts availability new/old than some other older cars.
Agree about back seat long journeys, but c'ant find many downsides to classic E36 ownership - but I am biased.
I think that the M3 saloons originally came from the factory with MTEC suspension rather than the coupes sportier Bilstein? set up. You get a bit more roll but really comfortable and flows down the road. There are lots of suspension options of course depending on usage.
Would certainly be fun - perhaps a test drive is needed.
Keeping it good should mean you get some dosh back if you ever decide to sell, although it will take some effort. As you say there is a knowledgeable group of owners and forums to help. Better parts availability new/old than some other older cars.
Agree about back seat long journeys, but c'ant find many downsides to classic E36 ownership - but I am biased.
I think that the M3 saloons originally came from the factory with MTEC suspension rather than the coupes sportier Bilstein? set up. You get a bit more roll but really comfortable and flows down the road. There are lots of suspension options of course depending on usage.
Would certainly be fun - perhaps a test drive is needed.
Out of all of the older cars I've owned BMW are one of the better dealers for still serving their customers. Try getting parts for an 80s or 90s Ford ; it's one reason why their values have shot up; no one makes this stuff anymore and whenever it does come it commands a premium due to its scarcity.
The only car served better I'd say are Porsches.
The only car served better I'd say are Porsches.
Great feedback, thanks. It would be the only car, we don't rely on a car as myself and the Mrs either walk or train to work and we live near the center of York and do most of our shopping online. So if it was off the road for a few days it's not a disaster. No room for a 2nd car anyway. Its weekend day trips and longer holidays in the UK a few times a year that we use a car.
I have a 10 year old Range Rover (so big bills are nothing new) at the moment, it's a great, practical, powerful and luxourious car however most of our driving is windy roads and if you press on it's not ideal and the kids start moaning about feeling sick. As we only use it once or twice a week it's hard to justify the depreciation and there is always the possibility of mega bills like a new turbo or 2.
My idea was to avoid depreciation and get a modernish classic that can still be driven weekly and is simple enough that some home maintenance is doable - but a 'special' car that is great to own and drive. Considered a Jag XJ series 3 but come to the conclusion that mpg is too high and reliability may be an issue. Looked at Mercedes W124 and W126 saloon & coupe - still tempted but maybe it's back to them being more suited to A roads and motorway cruising. Something like a Mk2 Golf GTI maybe a bit small.
I hadn't considered an M3 but saw a couple advertised and did some research and feel it may tick the boxes. If it costs more to run and fuel than a run of the mill modern car then that's partly offset by lack of depreciation. I did have an E38 728i a good few years ago, that was great build quality for a BMW of the same sort of era.
Like it or not though it's a family car and has to get 4 people from A to B in some level of refinement.
Don't some saloons have a folding rear seat, I thought it was a cost option?
Certainly a test drive is the next step.
I have a 10 year old Range Rover (so big bills are nothing new) at the moment, it's a great, practical, powerful and luxourious car however most of our driving is windy roads and if you press on it's not ideal and the kids start moaning about feeling sick. As we only use it once or twice a week it's hard to justify the depreciation and there is always the possibility of mega bills like a new turbo or 2.
My idea was to avoid depreciation and get a modernish classic that can still be driven weekly and is simple enough that some home maintenance is doable - but a 'special' car that is great to own and drive. Considered a Jag XJ series 3 but come to the conclusion that mpg is too high and reliability may be an issue. Looked at Mercedes W124 and W126 saloon & coupe - still tempted but maybe it's back to them being more suited to A roads and motorway cruising. Something like a Mk2 Golf GTI maybe a bit small.
I hadn't considered an M3 but saw a couple advertised and did some research and feel it may tick the boxes. If it costs more to run and fuel than a run of the mill modern car then that's partly offset by lack of depreciation. I did have an E38 728i a good few years ago, that was great build quality for a BMW of the same sort of era.
Like it or not though it's a family car and has to get 4 people from A to B in some level of refinement.
Don't some saloons have a folding rear seat, I thought it was a cost option?
Certainly a test drive is the next step.
themule said:
Is an M3 going to be too hard / harsh / tiring / noisy for longer trips? I'm not expecting barge comfort but it needs to be a nice place to be.
I had an early 3.0 E36 M3 and really enjoyed it. The maintenance was a pain and things like bushes etc will all need renewing I would think, which could get expensive if bolts are rusted in. However, with regard to noise or a harsh ride, I never felt like the E36 M3 was an uncomfortable place to be. It just felt right. Handling seemed fine on my one, which spent much of its time going a bit sideways...tyres seemed far cheaper for those than later M3s.When we had one child we toured around Scotland in an E36 M3 but this was back in 2001 when the car was about 6 years old. Covered about 2500 miles in 2 weeks and loved it. Once we had 2 kids I found it too small and moved onto to a Volvo 850 R which is now another fantastic modern classsic.
Like someone else said you might be better to go and test drive one first.
Good luck
Like someone else said you might be better to go and test drive one first.
Good luck
As an owner of a W124 I'd drive one if you have an itch! They are great for motorway cruisng and so on yes but they are not bad on country roads! My M3 will always be far more agile, but there is something about being a neutral handling comfy landyacht. It feels somehow pastoral and idyliic.
But it may be similar to your RR in that respect! I got a W124 years ago and the charm soon won me over.
But it may be similar to your RR in that respect! I got a W124 years ago and the charm soon won me over.
I sat in my E36 cab yesterday and noticed how 'small' it felt. The windscreen was so close to me, the controls, switches, access to everything barely a stretch away. On the road it felt really small too. I'm not sure I could daily my E36 but I'm sure for a fun car to chuck around it would be a complete hoot.
I'd say a M3 saloon would be a great family daily.
People used to have "smaller" cars than they do now, and everyone used to cope.
If you are thinking about it, why not try a cheapy E36 saloon before you bite the bullet on a more expensive M3?
I've got a M3 saloon and a W124 estate, no comparison on size, but also no comparison on driving.
People used to have "smaller" cars than they do now, and everyone used to cope.
If you are thinking about it, why not try a cheapy E36 saloon before you bite the bullet on a more expensive M3?
I've got a M3 saloon and a W124 estate, no comparison on size, but also no comparison on driving.
I have a saloon, originally used as a daily with 2 young sons when it was new. Folding seats were an option, rare but they are out there. The saloon has the slightly more compliant suspension than the coupe. There was plenty of room for the four of us, until the eldest hit 10+ years but even then not unbearable. The hard seat back means you don't suffer kicks...
The saloon roofline is better than the coupe for longer trips, & access obviously easier with the extra doors. Mine handled a number of long haul trips absolutely fine, including six months working abroad, through winter. The load included one trip with a roofbox & a bike rack, when it's replacement let me down & it was pressed back into service asap...it handled it brilliantly.
Reliability & driving wise, they're great to drive, but not for everyone. Mine feels grumpy & crotchety until it's warmed up, doesn't take long, then it comes into it's own. Compared to the 328, which is a lovely smooth silky 6, certainly mine is angrier & lumpier, & revels in being revved; but you don't have to thrash it for it to be fun. It's more of an old school bruiser, with a mechanical feel to it, not as sanitised as newer engines. That's not to say it's uncomfortable or unpleasant, just not as NVH as tends to be expected these days.
Find a good one, & you'll be fine, but bear in mind there were only 1700 or so in the UK to start with, lots have seen the wrong side of a hedge or worse, so there's far fewer now. The youngest is easily 20 years old: mine has had a suspension refresh or two, including bushes all around, that makes a big difference to the overall feel. They rust, because 20 year old cars rust; might be horrific, might be fine.
I love mine, hence why I've still got it. Even now, I can still jump in it after a couple of months rest, & it'll start & cover 100+ miles without a problem, often to a track or the pub, but sometimes to the tip!
The saloon roofline is better than the coupe for longer trips, & access obviously easier with the extra doors. Mine handled a number of long haul trips absolutely fine, including six months working abroad, through winter. The load included one trip with a roofbox & a bike rack, when it's replacement let me down & it was pressed back into service asap...it handled it brilliantly.
Reliability & driving wise, they're great to drive, but not for everyone. Mine feels grumpy & crotchety until it's warmed up, doesn't take long, then it comes into it's own. Compared to the 328, which is a lovely smooth silky 6, certainly mine is angrier & lumpier, & revels in being revved; but you don't have to thrash it for it to be fun. It's more of an old school bruiser, with a mechanical feel to it, not as sanitised as newer engines. That's not to say it's uncomfortable or unpleasant, just not as NVH as tends to be expected these days.
Find a good one, & you'll be fine, but bear in mind there were only 1700 or so in the UK to start with, lots have seen the wrong side of a hedge or worse, so there's far fewer now. The youngest is easily 20 years old: mine has had a suspension refresh or two, including bushes all around, that makes a big difference to the overall feel. They rust, because 20 year old cars rust; might be horrific, might be fine.
I love mine, hence why I've still got it. Even now, I can still jump in it after a couple of months rest, & it'll start & cover 100+ miles without a problem, often to a track or the pub, but sometimes to the tip!
MarkwG said:
I have a saloon, originally used as a daily with 2 young sons when it was new. Folding seats were an option, rare but they are out there. The saloon has the slightly more compliant suspension than the coupe. There was plenty of room for the four of us, until the eldest hit 10+ years but even then not unbearable. The hard seat back means you don't suffer kicks...
The saloon roofline is better than the coupe for longer trips, & access obviously easier with the extra doors. Mine handled a number of long haul trips absolutely fine, including six months working abroad, through winter. The load included one trip with a roofbox & a bike rack, when it's replacement let me down & it was pressed back into service asap...it handled it brilliantly.
Reliability & driving wise, they're great to drive, but not for everyone. Mine feels grumpy & crotchety until it's warmed up, doesn't take long, then it comes into it's own. Compared to the 328, which is a lovely smooth silky 6, certainly mine is angrier & lumpier, & revels in being revved; but you don't have to thrash it for it to be fun. It's more of an old school bruiser, with a mechanical feel to it, not as sanitised as newer engines. That's not to say it's uncomfortable or unpleasant, just not as NVH as tends to be expected these days.
Find a good one, & you'll be fine, but bear in mind there were only 1700 or so in the UK to start with, lots have seen the wrong side of a hedge or worse, so there's far fewer now. The youngest is easily 20 years old: mine has had a suspension refresh or two, including bushes all around, that makes a big difference to the overall feel. They rust, because 20 year old cars rust; might be horrific, might be fine.
I love mine, hence why I've still got it. Even now, I can still jump in it after a couple of months rest, & it'll start & cover 100+ miles without a problem, often to a track or the pub, but sometimes to the tip!
Thats such a great story, thanks for sharing!The saloon roofline is better than the coupe for longer trips, & access obviously easier with the extra doors. Mine handled a number of long haul trips absolutely fine, including six months working abroad, through winter. The load included one trip with a roofbox & a bike rack, when it's replacement let me down & it was pressed back into service asap...it handled it brilliantly.
Reliability & driving wise, they're great to drive, but not for everyone. Mine feels grumpy & crotchety until it's warmed up, doesn't take long, then it comes into it's own. Compared to the 328, which is a lovely smooth silky 6, certainly mine is angrier & lumpier, & revels in being revved; but you don't have to thrash it for it to be fun. It's more of an old school bruiser, with a mechanical feel to it, not as sanitised as newer engines. That's not to say it's uncomfortable or unpleasant, just not as NVH as tends to be expected these days.
Find a good one, & you'll be fine, but bear in mind there were only 1700 or so in the UK to start with, lots have seen the wrong side of a hedge or worse, so there's far fewer now. The youngest is easily 20 years old: mine has had a suspension refresh or two, including bushes all around, that makes a big difference to the overall feel. They rust, because 20 year old cars rust; might be horrific, might be fine.
I love mine, hence why I've still got it. Even now, I can still jump in it after a couple of months rest, & it'll start & cover 100+ miles without a problem, often to a track or the pub, but sometimes to the tip!
Thanks all so much for the advice. I am seriously looking now. My experience with my kids in the backseat is that they moan whatever the car, daughter moans about lack of legroom in the Range Rover so I take it with a pinch of salt. When I was a kid my parents had a beetle, a Saab 96 and then an Escort - all smaller in the back than an E36 saloon I guess.
I'm currently and have been for the past six months dailying my e36 evo, it was a track car but I sold my other car and needed to use the e36 as a stop gap, I threw an interior in it and away I went and tbh I've never really though of getting another mundane car at the moment.
As above its a harsh engine when cold, very mechanical, the gearbox is agricultural but tbh its fine once your used to it, I don't even think about it now. They're easy to work on, even the vanos isn't a big deal nowadays. Rear trailing arm bushes and front suspension arm bushes will need replaced of they haven't been done recently but they're easy to do and cheap. Rust rust rust is your biggest issue. Buy one and enjoy it. Mines has doubled in value in three years too.
As above its a harsh engine when cold, very mechanical, the gearbox is agricultural but tbh its fine once your used to it, I don't even think about it now. They're easy to work on, even the vanos isn't a big deal nowadays. Rear trailing arm bushes and front suspension arm bushes will need replaced of they haven't been done recently but they're easy to do and cheap. Rust rust rust is your biggest issue. Buy one and enjoy it. Mines has doubled in value in three years too.
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