Suspension change ?

[dantvrgriff]

Hi

I am considering changing the suspension on my 97 Griff 500. The original shocks are ok on good roads but as soon as it get's bumpy the car is all over the place. I only do track days 1 or 2 times a year. I want something that I can install and leave. Would also like to lower the front of the car for the looks. I was looking at Protech and would not want to spend more than that - any suggestions - is it worth it - can you really feel the change ?

Cheers

[gwardman]

When I first got my Griff, I ended up getting the steering rack overhauled and new bushes throughout. Made a huge difference to the feel on normal (= bumpy) road surfaces.

If you have already checked that out, good luck with the search for shocks. Mine had Nitrons when purchased, so I cannot give any meaningful before/after feedback.

[BIG DUNC]

If your shocks are original, then anything you fit will be better than 20 year old shocks.
As said above, the same applies to bushes.

I have just fitted pro-techs (&bushes) but cannot tell you what they are like yet as the car is not yet ready.

[motul1974]

Get the original returned? You can upgrade the front to height adjustable at the same time. Check them out on eBay.
You probably can't get better than Bilstein for your use.

[neutral 3]

Bilstein ( yellow ) sports. Bilstein UK can rebuild them as well.

[Jonny TVR]

I've just got my griff and noticed its about 1.5cm lower on the rear drivers side. It still handles well and copes with the rubbish road surface around here. The springs/ dampers also look in good condition. Are these adjustable?

FRONT

REAR

[dantvrgriff]

Thanks for the feedback. If I get my original Bilsteins refurbished is there then a simple way to lower the front of the car.

Cheers

[citizen smith]

Jonny TVR said:

I've just got my griff and noticed its about 1.5cm lower on the rear drivers side. It still handles well and copes with the rubbish road surface around here. The springs/ dampers also look in good condition. Are these adjustable?





FRONT

REAR

I am afraid to say that they are not adjustable. The units look good because they appear to have been recently painted, the inserted photo is of the latest Bilstein Replacements. Well worth a consideration given that your unit's are 20+ years old and possibly past their best even allowing for such a low mileage.

[urquattroGus]

I can only really tell you about my own experience, but when I bought my 1996 car about 8 months ago, on test drive I noticed that the ride was very crashy.

I think the car was on original shocks and springs, at circa 41,000 miles.

I negotiated to have Nitrons fitted, I bought the shocks for circa £1300 and they fitted and set them up.

Made a words of difference, but that's as you'd expect really.

Ride much better and whole car better resolved.

I think to some extent they are all quite harsh, I drove one other Griff on Nitrons and that was what made me realise they were the thing to get.

[chj]

dantvrgriff said:

Hi

I am considering changing the suspension on my 97 Griff 500. The original shocks are ok on good roads but as soon as it get's bumpy the car is all over the place. I only do track days 1 or 2 times a year. I want something that I can install and leave. Would also like to lower the front of the car for the looks. I was looking at Protech and would not want to spend more than that - any suggestions - is it worth it - can you really feel the change ?

Cheers

I have double adjustable Protechs on mine and am very happy with them. Road use only, but lots of uneven country lanes and B roads and after trying several set-ups I prefer to run tyre pressures a couple of psi over book.

Chris

[SMB]

Jonny TVR said:

I've just got my griff and noticed its about 1.5cm lower on the rear drivers side. It still handles well and copes with the rubbish road surface around here. The springs/ dampers also look in good condition. Are these adjustable?

REAR

It's also worth noting that the routing of the return fuel hose is wrong. There is a hole deep in the wheelarch that the hose should enter through.

[SMB]

dantvrgriff said:

Thanks for the feedback. If I get my original Bilsteins refurbished is there then a simple way to lower the front of the car.

Cheers

The latest Mk4 bilsteins have 3 grooves to change the ride height, earlier mk4's just had one, although TVR parts sell a kit to make them adjustable. Earlier bilsteins aren't adjustable even with a kit. You can tell a Mk4 by the size of the top bush mount. They are larger.

[jesfirth]

I wouldn't stay with the billys. nitorns or protech which are cheaper are in a different league. the advantage they both have over the billys is that you can corner weight the car by changing the platform height which is the main reason for the handing and stability improvement. well you cant do it because you will get it very wrong but any decent motorsport garage with a set of scales can do it for a couple of hundred £££

[Jonny TVR]

jesfirth said:

I wouldn't stay with the billys. nitorns or protech which are cheaper are in a different league. the advantage they both have over the billys is that you can corner weight the car by changing the platform height which is the main reason for the handing and stability improvement. well you cant do it because you will get it very wrong but any decent motorsport garage with a set of scales can do it for a couple of hundred £££

I've ordered a full set of protechs and should be able to get them fitted next month. I decided not to go for the Nitrons due to cost and also my view that the handling for fast road will be vastly improved on where I am. Also the TVR's are essentially compromised by the lack of rigidity in the chassis anyway and it doesnt really matter how much money you throw at the suspension its not really going to get round that. If you have a full roll cage in I suppose its a different story.

Edited by Jonny TVR on Wednesday 14th March 08:32

[lancepar]

Hole for fuel return pipe.

This is where it is on my Chim'





Installed today, I hope I got it routed right?

[motul1974]

Is it not better to have expensive non-adjustables than entry level full adjusted ones?
How often do you hear about folks sending their 2-3 year olds suspension off for refurb and the like? And I don't believe corner weighting adds anything to a road going/ track day car....not unless you intend to run slicks and mega stiff suspension. There appears to be quite a few race cars out there that don't bother with the corner weighting.

How often would you plan to mess around adjusting stuff??

Just my twopennies and that's why I went mk4 Bilstein.

[citizen smith]

motul1974 said:

Is it not better to have expensive non-adjustables than entry level full adjusted ones?
How often do you hear about folks sending their 2-3 year olds suspension off for refurb and the like? And I don't believe corner weighting adds anything to a road going/ track day car....not unless you intend to run slicks and mega stiff suspension. There appears to be quite a few race cars out there that don't bother with the corner weighting.

How often would you plan to mess around adjusting stuff??

Just my twopennies and that's why I went mk4 Bilstein.

I totally agree, a while ago now I bought a set of Nitrons for my old Chimaera and spent quite a few hours, over quite a few months adjusting the ride height (springs settling down) and damping to suit.

That's why I have recently purchased a New Set of MK4 Bilsteins, to go on my current Chimaera.

[Classic Chim]

citizen smith said:

motul1974 said:

Is it not better to have expensive non-adjustables than entry level full adjusted ones?
How often do you hear about folks sending their 2-3 year olds suspension off for refurb and the like? And I don't believe corner weighting adds anything to a road going/ track day car....not unless you intend to run slicks and mega stiff suspension. There appears to be quite a few race cars out there that don't bother with the corner weighting.

How often would you plan to mess around adjusting stuff??

Just my twopennies and that's why I went mk4 Bilstein.

I totally agree, a while ago now I bought a set of Nitrons for my old Chimaera and spent quite a few hours, over quite a few months adjusting the ride height (springs settling down) and damping to suit.

That's why I have recently purchased a New Set of MK4 Bilsteins, to go on my current Chimaera.

This often comes up and in my case correct. I’ve had brand new GGP and Protech twin damper adjust and didn’t enjoy either. Simply to hard or to soft, never a happy medium that actually worked for all occasions ( road use)

If I got them to be compliant over rough roads they bottomed out at speed.

I’ve gone back to ancient Koni and prefer them. Cars better balanced and doesn’t bottom out but feels softer. Springs are probably worn but overall the damping is superior in quality to both the shocks mentioned.

I’ve corner weighted cars a few times and agree for all but flat out driving into corners on the very edge it’s not going to make much difference to a road going car.

If you do find adjustable you eventually find a sweet spot with, that’s it you don’t adjust them so the adjusters seize up. These after market shocks don’t last very long on harsh roads as the rubber mounted O/E spec ones are more suited to take out the shocks on impact. If you want to do trackdays then ok but I’ve been on track with a chap in his Griff on the new billies and I was on the hardest setting on my Protech’s which still got hot and softened up! His car was more stable with less body roll.

Bottom end shocks at £800 a full set are not going to do what Intrax will do for £3000 for two.
My instinct tells me the likes of Bilstein know more about damping than these companies and produce better shocks as a matter of course. Nitron are very good but again the cost rises. I’d say the new billies and Nitron are on a par with each other so it comes down to if you need the extra adjustment which I don’t think is necessary if you get the right shock spring damper rate in the first place.
My old Koni are doing a much better job overall than the shocks I spent a lot of money on.
I know where my money will be going when I do decide to buy new again.
Frankly if the Koni can be refurbed I’ll gladly keep them on the car.
Says a lot really.
Saying all that I didn’t mess with spring rates much so a pile of springs and testing time might have found me a good set up but honestly they do one thing or the other but not both so your forever adjusting the things.

[Classic Chim]

I’ve visited a chap who rebuilds racecar shocks and what I took from him was not only can you cheat and effect how the shocks dampen but most importantly it’s to match the damping to the spring rate you want to use. That’s where he spent time to get this optimised.
This is what I think Ben Lang did when he actually tested the Tuscan spec Billie dampers and made adjustments to them.

As there’s no adjustment they have to do both soft and hard, thats all in the damping progression which seems non existent on after market cheapies.

A race car needs shocks that react quick and hold there position and ride height when hot.
They also will be so firm as to offer little or no suspension travel if you was to sit or push down on the car. It’s desighed to work into a corner pulling huge forces. We don’t really ever do that even on trackdays as few of us use slicks so cant pull the G’s to really warrant race type shocks.
The billies will do you all round unless your Jes going into corners full chat at 125 mph on the living edge.
Most of all I think they are more robust and able to handle the roads we will subject them too. Corrosion doesn’t effect them very much compared to after market which will need constant servicing.

No brainier to me.

[anonymous-user]

I went for the sport setup from Ben Lang, they just work and previous experience with Bilstein tells me they are bullet proof. Big old rubber bushes, decent seals, proper road shocks.

Fit and forget.