E36 M3 buying advice.
Discussion
Following on from my other thread in this forum I wanted to get peoples thoughts.
I have seen a potentially nice M3 evo saloon, has about 100k miles with regular oil changes and it seems to have been looked after. What it hasn't had is any valve adjustment in the last few years, the conrod bearing shells / bolts have never been changed and no work has ever been done on the vanos.
My question is is this anything to worry about, particularly the bearing shells?
Any advice is appreciated.
Andy
I have seen a potentially nice M3 evo saloon, has about 100k miles with regular oil changes and it seems to have been looked after. What it hasn't had is any valve adjustment in the last few years, the conrod bearing shells / bolts have never been changed and no work has ever been done on the vanos.
My question is is this anything to worry about, particularly the bearing shells?
Any advice is appreciated.
Andy
themule said:
Following on from my other thread in this forum I wanted to get peoples thoughts.
I have seen a potentially nice M3 evo saloon, has about 100k miles with regular oil changes and it seems to have been looked after. What it hasn't had is any valve adjustment in the last few years, the conrod bearing shells / bolts have never been changed and no work has ever been done on the vanos.
My question is is this anything to worry about, particularly the bearing shells?
Any advice is appreciated.
Andy
If the shells are like the S54 they are a bit of a lottery. Some when they have been removed have been perfect at 140k, yet others are well and truly down to the copper at 70k. Look at the owner, the service history etc. may say more about how the car has been treated.I have seen a potentially nice M3 evo saloon, has about 100k miles with regular oil changes and it seems to have been looked after. What it hasn't had is any valve adjustment in the last few years, the conrod bearing shells / bolts have never been changed and no work has ever been done on the vanos.
My question is is this anything to worry about, particularly the bearing shells?
Any advice is appreciated.
Andy
FWIW I'm getting mine done for peace of mine (E46 M3) with the local specialist charging £900 to do it. The altenative is potentially a scored crank which is my case is either a new crank (at £2.1k+!) and then fitting on top. Secondhand engines are more than a new cranK!
I owned a E36 Evo Convertible for 18 years. Brought it new back in 98. sold it last year.
You need to check a few things.
The exhaust flexi pipe. This splits.
Check that the shims have been done
Check AC works, compressor gets stones glore
Trailing arm bushes, I replaced mine twice. Wiggles
2rd/3rd gear change, syncros go.
Vanos - Back in the day this was a 1200 issue, now Dr Vanos will fix. Check that the bolts / motors replaced / maintained
Diff - Diffs can wear, mine was replaced under warranty. 5/10mph on a flat surface and you will hear it
Drivers seat base wear, this can be swapped with passengers
Make sure it comes with 2 keys / fob and the red plastic key
I loved my Evo, cost me £40K+ back in the day, sold it for £10K. Never really rated it as a drive though. Never really felt that fast unlike my Mkiv supra twin turbo. Some people are trying to sell ones for £15K+ ..... cant understand why, certainly not worth it. I remember when the saloons weren't worth much at all, then suddenly they went up.
Estoril blue / black leather is the best colour combo. Go on to e36coupe.com Very helpful there.
Good luck.
Simon
You need to check a few things.
The exhaust flexi pipe. This splits.
Check that the shims have been done
Check AC works, compressor gets stones glore
Trailing arm bushes, I replaced mine twice. Wiggles
2rd/3rd gear change, syncros go.
Vanos - Back in the day this was a 1200 issue, now Dr Vanos will fix. Check that the bolts / motors replaced / maintained
Diff - Diffs can wear, mine was replaced under warranty. 5/10mph on a flat surface and you will hear it
Drivers seat base wear, this can be swapped with passengers
Make sure it comes with 2 keys / fob and the red plastic key
I loved my Evo, cost me £40K+ back in the day, sold it for £10K. Never really rated it as a drive though. Never really felt that fast unlike my Mkiv supra twin turbo. Some people are trying to sell ones for £15K+ ..... cant understand why, certainly not worth it. I remember when the saloons weren't worth much at all, then suddenly they went up.
Estoril blue / black leather is the best colour combo. Go on to e36coupe.com Very helpful there.
Good luck.
Simon
Sorry, I meant black plastic key thing. Not sure what it did, was too busy raising / lowering the floor when the BMW sales man was explaining everything. :-)
Go on to www.e36coupe.com
This site was amazing back in the day, So much info.
Go on to www.e36coupe.com
This site was amazing back in the day, So much info.
helix402 said:
What red plastic key? That’s Fiats and Alfas. Rust is one of the main problems. Have a look on eBay. There is a good video of a young man (with a YouTube channel I think) who buys a blue rusty M3 and spends a fortune fixing it.
Yup, he's on M3Cutters as well with the name "AutoAlex!". It's CarThrottle's Alex! He calls his car "Colin".Depending on where you are in the country and/or if you can get your hands dirty, X8R and Beisan Systems also offer VANOS solutions. I've used the latter and they have been fine, with a good reputation to boot.
It gives some perspective on running any M3 TBH!
The car I am looking at tomorrow is this https://www.gumtree.com/p/bmw/e36-m3-3.2-evo-saloo...
Seems pretty good, does need new front tyres soonish and the valve clearances checked/ adjusted soon. Also has 8 previous owners. Has 1 small rust bubble on the boot, but that's it apparently. Aircon not working. Current owner 4 years.
Any thoughts?
Much appreciated. Andy
Seems pretty good, does need new front tyres soonish and the valve clearances checked/ adjusted soon. Also has 8 previous owners. Has 1 small rust bubble on the boot, but that's it apparently. Aircon not working. Current owner 4 years.
Any thoughts?
Much appreciated. Andy
Car looks okay, Is your heart set on a E36 ? I would look more at the E46 M3 as that was / is a better car and doesn't look as `aged`. Colour can really age the E36 M3s, Estoril Blue seems to keep it looking modernish.
Have you considered Mercedes AMGs ?? £9K can buy you some good cars.
SBK
Have you considered Mercedes AMGs ?? £9K can buy you some good cars.
SBK
themule said:
My thinking around the E36 is that it's starting to move up in price now.
As a wise and older gentleman said, you can spend your money on maintaining a car for the amount it goes up.That is unless you store the car in the corner somewhere.
It looks good in the photos however.
Yes, I'm not looking at it as an investment but as lack of depreciation offsetting some of the cost of maintenance. My current Range Rover is depreciation plus maintenance costs.
Main areas of concern with this particular car are high number of owners (8 previously), original bearing shells and bolts and aircon not working.
Main areas of concern with this particular car are high number of owners (8 previously), original bearing shells and bolts and aircon not working.
Hi there,
I’m doing a complete restoration of an E36 M3 Evolution Coupé right now, it’s my second E36 M3. So here’s my advice:
- Big end bearing shells and bolts: don’t get too hung up on a car that hasn’t had these replaced. Sure it’s a nice to have if it’s been done, but as long as it’s not knocking or the car has spent a lot of hours on track, don’t fret. You can always do it when you get the car.
- VANOS: most of these cars will be on their second VANOS. The most important thing to check for is that the front covers aren’t leaking oil and that it actually works - you’ll feel a performance kick at approx 3.5k and 5.5k revs if it’s working properly. Listen for grumbling or rattles whilst warm at idle or when revs picked up, but bear in mind that it might be noisy but functional so not a huge issue immediately.
- Engine general: check for oil leaks top and bottom (oil pressure valve under exhaust manifold leaks from o ring), check the lower exhaust manifold flexible bellows for cracks and assume that all rubber hose under or around the inlet manifold will be frayed if not split - a common cause for cars not running right. Valve clearances should be checked/adjusted on every inspection II service
- Bodywork: unless it’s had a ground up restoration there WILL be rust. Just a question of where and how much. Common problem areas are; rear wheel arches, jacking points/sills behind side skirts, boot slam panel, lower sections of front wings. The other issue is that these cars rust along the seams under the rubberised underseal. So if you see any significant rust on the surface, there’s bound to be some under the body. Recommend you get under there with a good torch and a flat bladed screwdriver.
- Suspension: bushes are the main concern. Any car that’s been looked after will most likely have had a couple of sets of front control arm bushes and rear trailing arm bushes, but check them none the less. The bigger danger are the 4 rear axle carrier bushes, unless they’ve been done in the last few years, factor in a rear axle drop to replace.
- Brakes etc: front discs should be the genuine BMW floating items, fixed pattern parts aren’t up to the job in general. The rear metal brake pipes commonly corrode from the T section in front of the fuel tank to where they meet the flexi pipes, then from the inner flex pipes to the outer. Again many will have been done, watch out for dodgy copper pipe slice repairs though.
The rest of the car is pretty standard stuff; electric window mechs can fail, AC leak and stop working, alarm systems throw the odd wobbler etc. In essence they’re a reasonably straightforward car to work on for the DIY mechanic. And let’s not forget a great and practical driver’s car that will almost certainly repay what you spend keeping it in the road. Good luck 😉
I’m doing a complete restoration of an E36 M3 Evolution Coupé right now, it’s my second E36 M3. So here’s my advice:
- Big end bearing shells and bolts: don’t get too hung up on a car that hasn’t had these replaced. Sure it’s a nice to have if it’s been done, but as long as it’s not knocking or the car has spent a lot of hours on track, don’t fret. You can always do it when you get the car.
- VANOS: most of these cars will be on their second VANOS. The most important thing to check for is that the front covers aren’t leaking oil and that it actually works - you’ll feel a performance kick at approx 3.5k and 5.5k revs if it’s working properly. Listen for grumbling or rattles whilst warm at idle or when revs picked up, but bear in mind that it might be noisy but functional so not a huge issue immediately.
- Engine general: check for oil leaks top and bottom (oil pressure valve under exhaust manifold leaks from o ring), check the lower exhaust manifold flexible bellows for cracks and assume that all rubber hose under or around the inlet manifold will be frayed if not split - a common cause for cars not running right. Valve clearances should be checked/adjusted on every inspection II service
- Bodywork: unless it’s had a ground up restoration there WILL be rust. Just a question of where and how much. Common problem areas are; rear wheel arches, jacking points/sills behind side skirts, boot slam panel, lower sections of front wings. The other issue is that these cars rust along the seams under the rubberised underseal. So if you see any significant rust on the surface, there’s bound to be some under the body. Recommend you get under there with a good torch and a flat bladed screwdriver.
- Suspension: bushes are the main concern. Any car that’s been looked after will most likely have had a couple of sets of front control arm bushes and rear trailing arm bushes, but check them none the less. The bigger danger are the 4 rear axle carrier bushes, unless they’ve been done in the last few years, factor in a rear axle drop to replace.
- Brakes etc: front discs should be the genuine BMW floating items, fixed pattern parts aren’t up to the job in general. The rear metal brake pipes commonly corrode from the T section in front of the fuel tank to where they meet the flexi pipes, then from the inner flex pipes to the outer. Again many will have been done, watch out for dodgy copper pipe slice repairs though.
The rest of the car is pretty standard stuff; electric window mechs can fail, AC leak and stop working, alarm systems throw the odd wobbler etc. In essence they’re a reasonably straightforward car to work on for the DIY mechanic. And let’s not forget a great and practical driver’s car that will almost certainly repay what you spend keeping it in the road. Good luck 😉
T-bagger said:
Hi there,
I’m doing a complete restoration of an E36 M3 Evolution Coupé right now, it’s my second E36 M3. So here’s my advice:
- Big end bearing shells and bolts: don’t get too hung up on a car that hasn’t had these replaced. Sure it’s a nice to have if it’s been done, but as long as it’s not knocking or the car has spent a lot of hours on track, don’t fret. You can always do it when you get the car.
- VANOS: most of these cars will be on their second VANOS. The most important thing to check for is that the front covers aren’t leaking oil and that it actually works - you’ll feel a performance kick at approx 3.5k and 5.5k revs if it’s working properly. Listen for grumbling or rattles whilst warm at idle or when revs picked up, but bear in mind that it might be noisy but functional so not a huge issue immediately.
- Engine general: check for oil leaks top and bottom (oil pressure valve under exhaust manifold leaks from o ring), check the lower exhaust manifold flexible bellows for cracks and assume that all rubber hose under or around the inlet manifold will be frayed if not split - a common cause for cars not running right. Valve clearances should be checked/adjusted on every inspection II service
- Bodywork: unless it’s had a ground up restoration there WILL be rust. Just a question of where and how much. Common problem areas are; rear wheel arches, jacking points/sills behind side skirts, boot slam panel, lower sections of front wings. The other issue is that these cars rust along the seams under the rubberised underseal. So if you see any significant rust on the surface, there’s bound to be some under the body. Recommend you get under there with a good torch and a flat bladed screwdriver.
- Suspension: bushes are the main concern. Any car that’s been looked after will most likely have had a couple of sets of front control arm bushes and rear trailing arm bushes, but check them none the less. The bigger danger are the 4 rear axle carrier bushes, unless they’ve been done in the last few years, factor in a rear axle drop to replace.
- Brakes etc: front discs should be the genuine BMW floating items, fixed pattern parts aren’t up to the job in general. The rear metal brake pipes commonly corrode from the T section in front of the fuel tank to where they meet the flexi pipes, then from the inner flex pipes to the outer. Again many will have been done, watch out for dodgy copper pipe slice repairs though.
The rest of the car is pretty standard stuff; electric window mechs can fail, AC leak and stop working, alarm systems throw the odd wobbler etc. In essence they’re a reasonably straightforward car to work on for the DIY mechanic. And let’s not forget a great and practical driver’s car that will almost certainly repay what you spend keeping it in the road. Good luck ??
Hi, sounds like your undertaking the the same task as me at the moment. I'm very nearly there now on a 3.0 dakar coupe.I’m doing a complete restoration of an E36 M3 Evolution Coupé right now, it’s my second E36 M3. So here’s my advice:
- Big end bearing shells and bolts: don’t get too hung up on a car that hasn’t had these replaced. Sure it’s a nice to have if it’s been done, but as long as it’s not knocking or the car has spent a lot of hours on track, don’t fret. You can always do it when you get the car.
- VANOS: most of these cars will be on their second VANOS. The most important thing to check for is that the front covers aren’t leaking oil and that it actually works - you’ll feel a performance kick at approx 3.5k and 5.5k revs if it’s working properly. Listen for grumbling or rattles whilst warm at idle or when revs picked up, but bear in mind that it might be noisy but functional so not a huge issue immediately.
- Engine general: check for oil leaks top and bottom (oil pressure valve under exhaust manifold leaks from o ring), check the lower exhaust manifold flexible bellows for cracks and assume that all rubber hose under or around the inlet manifold will be frayed if not split - a common cause for cars not running right. Valve clearances should be checked/adjusted on every inspection II service
- Bodywork: unless it’s had a ground up restoration there WILL be rust. Just a question of where and how much. Common problem areas are; rear wheel arches, jacking points/sills behind side skirts, boot slam panel, lower sections of front wings. The other issue is that these cars rust along the seams under the rubberised underseal. So if you see any significant rust on the surface, there’s bound to be some under the body. Recommend you get under there with a good torch and a flat bladed screwdriver.
- Suspension: bushes are the main concern. Any car that’s been looked after will most likely have had a couple of sets of front control arm bushes and rear trailing arm bushes, but check them none the less. The bigger danger are the 4 rear axle carrier bushes, unless they’ve been done in the last few years, factor in a rear axle drop to replace.
- Brakes etc: front discs should be the genuine BMW floating items, fixed pattern parts aren’t up to the job in general. The rear metal brake pipes commonly corrode from the T section in front of the fuel tank to where they meet the flexi pipes, then from the inner flex pipes to the outer. Again many will have been done, watch out for dodgy copper pipe slice repairs though.
The rest of the car is pretty standard stuff; electric window mechs can fail, AC leak and stop working, alarm systems throw the odd wobbler etc. In essence they’re a reasonably straightforward car to work on for the DIY mechanic. And let’s not forget a great and practical driver’s car that will almost certainly repay what you spend keeping it in the road. Good luck ??
I dont suppose you are using a stocknsuspension set up are you?
If so you may be able to help me with my front end ride hight issue I'm having?
I've swapped out to evo springs as non evo not availiable and now I'm to high. I could just do with a measurement of a stock spring length not fitted to the shock if you wouldn't mind?
Good luck with your resto.
In regards to buying one, if your ok on the spanners no job is to tuff and parts are readily available if you need them good aftermarket german parts if not main dealers.
Rear end can be a pig as things had started to rust/weld themselves together (rear hub assembly/handbrake cables) i think mine had be parked in a lake for a few years.
Like any car its better to spend a little more and get a better car to start with.
My brother has an 80,000mile one owner car and give £12,000 for it and it needs nothing. Compare that to the 100,000 mile 5 owner £10,000 car i bought thats needed everything and he's definitely got a healthier bank balance than me now.
Looking better now though 👍
tommy18 said:
My brother has an 80,000mile one owner car and give £12,000 for it and it needs nothing. Compare that to the 100,000 mile 5 owner £10,000 car i bought thats needed everything and he's definitely got a healthier bank balance than me now.
Looking better now though ??
I can give you a flipside scenario.Looking better now though ??
I owned a 180k 1991 944 Turbo which is now on 205k with the current owner. Bar some service bits and the odd minor repair it's been one of the best cars I've ever owned. It was owned by two known specialists prior to me. My 120k 944 S2 cost me in repairs what I paid for the Turbo in 2013, which admittedly was below market value.
When I came to sell my Turbo, many people loved how it drove but offered what seemed to me stupid money. Almost all bought sub 100k cars. Half of them paid more repairing bits on it than I paid for the Turbo. I'm talking suspension refresh, and in one case an engine reliner job.
I was also daily driving that 944 Turbo too, so it was not like it was sat around under my ownership.
For me, it's always condition basically
.Yours look gorgeous I must say! Will that be at any shows later on this year?
SebringMan said:
tommy18 said:
My brother has an 80,000mile one owner car and give £12,000 for it and it needs nothing. Compare that to the 100,000 mile 5 owner £10,000 car i bought thats needed everything and he's definitely got a healthier bank balance than me now.
Looking better now though ??
I can give you a flipside scenario.Looking better now though ??
I owned a 180k 1991 944 Turbo which is now on 205k with the current owner. Bar some service bits and the odd minor repair it's been one of the best cars I've ever owned. It was owned by two known specialists prior to me. My 120k 944 S2 cost me in repairs what I paid for the Turbo in 2013, which admittedly was below market value.
When I came to sell my Turbo, many people loved how it drove but offered what seemed to me stupid money. Almost all bought sub 100k cars. Half of them paid more repairing bits on it than I paid for the Turbo. I'm talking suspension refresh, and in one case an engine reliner job.
I was also daily driving that 944 Turbo too, so it was not like it was sat around under my ownership.
For me, it's always condition basically
.Yours look gorgeous I must say! Will that be at any shows later on this year?
I should have explained myself better really.
The 20,000miles difference between mine and more brothers cars is not alot over 24 years. But the cars couldn'thave been further apart.
Condition and maintenance is key. Mine had 5 times the owners and not the best history, whilst his one owner full service history showed the kind of life it had.
But as you say, a thorough inspection in all areas of the car is what will get you the right car. Not mileage.
I have no problem with high mileage cars but its a shame the impact it has on values especially on performance cars.
But if the can suffer a higher mileage, bargains and good times to be had.
Unfortunately for me it had to be non Evo, dakar yellow, alcantara interior.
After wanted ads, emails notifications set up i waited 2 years before this one came up.
I knew there were better and i had work to do. But i now know the underside of an e36 like the back of my hand
Thanks and Yes I'd like to get to some shows.
If i can get the front end down a bit
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