Why is 2nd hand Rolex GMT II dearer than Submariner?

[philcray]

I bought my SS Submariner 16610 date back in 2002 and, at that time, you could not get hold of one. I eventually found mine through an AD in Preston as most other AD's (I lived in London at the time) had the waiting lists which I was fairly confident would never actually get me a watch.

At that time, the GMT II 16710 was widely available in almost all Rolex dealers in London and could be had with a choice of bezels, the standard one was the pepsi design and I seriously considered one with a black bezel but really wanted a Submariner so hung on for that.

Both models were the same price at £2,350 and there may even have been a discount on the GMT had I pushed.

I have worn my Submariner for over 15 years now and not considering selling. However I was just looking at Watchfinder and surprised to find Subs of a similar vintage are now a lot cheaper than GMT's. Also that the colour of the GMT bezel seems to have a fairly significant effect on the price, AD's would change these back when I was looking so do they no longer do this?

Just wondering why this is, I guess just a vaguery of fashion and perhaps something to bear in mind if paying a premium for Hulks & Batmans as an investment. With hindsight, I should have stocked up on GMT's when I had chance!

[Chris Stott]

I'm no expert on the market for 2nd hand Rolex, but economics would say this is supply and demand driven... either there are more Subs around, or there's more demand for the GMT... either way, pricing is higher on the GMT.

[Snubs]

Again i'm no expert, but i think you'll find it's all about the bezel. At present, you can only get a Pepsi bezel on a white gold GMT, which is about £28,000. Hence as the Pepsi bezel is typically seen as the most iconic (it was the original colour in 1955), to get a stainless steel one you have to go back to when they last made them, so they're more expensive. Whilst i've never asked, i wouldn't imagine for a moment an AD would be allowed to put a bezel specific to a white gold watch onto a SS one.

[aeropilot]

Snubs said:

Again i'm no expert, but i think you'll find it's all about the bezel. At present, you can only get a Pepsi bezel on a white gold GMT, which is about £28,000.

And has just been discontinued.

[Snubs]

aeropilot said:

And has just been discontinued.

I didn't know that. It's still up on their website:

https://www.rolex.com/watches/gmt-master-ii/m11671...

Was it announced at SIHH?

[aeropilot]

Snubs said:

aeropilot said:

And has just been discontinued.

I didn't know that. It's still up on their website:

https://www.rolex.com/watches/gmt-master-ii/m11671...

Rolex won't make any official announcement until Baselworld in a few weeks time, and will likely still take a few months for it to go from the website.
But, a few people trying to order from AD in past few weeks have been told that they can no longer be ordered from Rolex.

[rog007]

aeropilot said:

Snubs said:

Again i'm no expert, but i think you'll find it's all about the bezel. At present, you can only get a Pepsi bezel on a white gold GMT, which is about £28,000.

And has just been discontinued.

I had gone in to buy one of those, but was underwhelmed by the colouring on the bezel; just didn’t look as good as the original, kind of washed out on the red. Obviously still a cracking watch, but I just wasn’t lusting after it.

Chose a 116713LN GMT II ceramic instead (whose bezel colouring looks fantastic I think) and bought a 1990 GMTII ‘Pepsi’ with some of the change!

Interestingly, the Pepsi came with a few of its previous sales receipts that made sobering reading!!! Still, it’s a thing of beauty that I love wearing.

[aeropilot]

rog007 said:

aeropilot said:

Snubs said:

Again i'm no expert, but i think you'll find it's all about the bezel. At present, you can only get a Pepsi bezel on a white gold GMT, which is about £28,000.

And has just been discontinued.

I had gone in to buy one of those, but was underwhelmed by the colouring on the bezel; just didn’t look as good as the original, kind of washed out on the red.

Actually, the BLRO bezel colours are very close to the original 6542 GMT with the Bakelite bezel.

The typical 'Persi' GMT brighter bezel colours that people think is the original, actually is the later 2nd generation GMT.

[philcray]

rog007 said:

Interestingly, the Pepsi came with a few of its previous sales receipts that made sobering reading!!! Still, it’s a thing of beauty that I love wearing.

What did the previous receipts show?

[rog007]

philcray said:

rog007 said:

Interestingly, the Pepsi came with a few of its previous sales receipts that made sobering reading!!! Still, it’s a thing of beauty that I love wearing.

What did the previous receipts show?

That I should have bought one (or more) then!!

[philcray]

rog007 said:

philcray said:

rog007 said:

Interestingly, the Pepsi came with a few of its previous sales receipts that made sobering reading!!! Still, it’s a thing of beauty that I love wearing.

What did the previous receipts show?

That I should have bought one (or more) then!!

Indeed! As mentioned, even back in 2002 the GMT II was easily available with choice of bezel for the price of £2,350 and maybe even a bit of discount. The SS Submariner date was hard to get then, how fashions change....

[audidoody]

I was lucky enough to pick up a nearly-new 16710 Coke from WF in 2003 for £1,900.

Never dreamed it would soar in value. But it's immaterial as I'd have to be sleeping rough to ever sell it.

Prices have gone bonkers because the post-2010 1167XX models are not as desirable as they lack the 'classic' blue/red black/red. The allure of the GMT II was the coloured bezel.

The BLNR is only fetching a premium because of the blue/black bezel. The £20k-plus blue/red white gold model is in a different price sector.

Even if Rolex brings out a S/S Pepsi or Coke it will be as difficult to buy at RRP as the ceramic Daytona. Anyone lucky enough to get one (assuming they are launched) will be able to buy it for around £7,500 and instantly flip it for double.

If you are buying a 16710 it doesn't really matter whether you get the Pepsi, Coke, or Black aluminium bezel. Rolex in St James will fit whichever one you like for around £50 on an exchange basis while you wait.

I don't think prices of the 16710 (with B&P) will go much higher. Then again, I though the limit was five years ago when WF was asking £4,500.

Edited by audidoody on Thursday 15th March 00:09