Naim Hi-if upgrade - source or amps?

[Itsallicanafford]

So...got to make a decision on this as it’s actually starting to hurt my head!

I am looking at a modest upgrade of my system. Which currently is:-

Rega RP1
Phono mini
Nac112
Nap150
Epos M12.2

The upgrade choice is source:-
Rega P6 MC
Fono MC
Flatcap 2

Or the below choice of Amps:-
Supernait2
Or
NAC202/NAP200
Or
32.5/250 hicap Chrome bumper

Head says source this year, then amps next and finally speakers...but if I was critical of my system I would say it lacks abit of power and grunt hence looking at the Amps first...having a demo of all the above at TomTomAudio

Comments / advice would be appreciated..

Ps. And I have always wanted a Chrome bumper system...

[Ginetta G15 Girl]

Source first.

[legzr1]

Yeah, without a source you won’t hear anything...

Biggest differences will come from speakers and their interactions with the room and boundaries.
An amp with suitable power to drive the speakers dependant on their load and sensitivity is normally a wise choice.

[Mr_Yogi]

Why not book an appointment at your local deallers and ask to try the things you are considering, and see what offeres the biggest improvment?

[Tony1963]

How big is the room? If your power amp/speaker combination struggles to fill your room with sound at your listening volumes, your choice will be different to if you're just after more detail/soundstage or whatever.

[Itsallicanafford]

Thanks for the replies, gone abit left field and dusted down an old 35w Technics amp, and do know what, it rocks! It doesn’t do detail like the 122/150 but it’s great fun swapping between the two. You can control the base/ treble balance on the Technics which is nice...





Will look at the source, but also might just buy a stack of records and get on an enjoy what I’ve got!!

[troika]

Upgrade the Rega. If you can stretch to upgrade the 112 as well that would help, it wasn’t Naims finest hour. The 150 is fine so I’d be tempted to chop the 112 for a 202 if you can (check the 150 will power a 202) then upgrade the 150 for a 200 at a later date. I used to run a 202/200 and it’s a lovely combination. Sadly I got the bug so moved to 252/SC/300 in stages. As always, let your ears decide.

[Andy_mr2sc]

Excuse the thread hijack, but following the Rega comments has anyone got/heard the new (last two years) Planar 3? I'm about to pull the trigger on one as they seem to be the best £600 you can spend according to all the reviews, but interested in some first hand experience.

[dvshannow]

Have you tried a naim dac? The dac v1 i think is really good

I run a dac v1 into a sn2 as pre and nap300 power and it sounds good

[Gurbinder]

If you looking to add a CB 32.5/250 please look at adding the HiCap too, the market is strong for these at the moment and will rise further with the Vinyl revival so act now.

My current System is LP12/32.5/140/Hicap/SBLs and I love it, I made this move after selling my Uniti 2 and have no regrets.

I would also budget for servicing of the items maybe from Class A, Avondale or Witch Hat.

All the best.

[urquattroGus]

Controversial, but I've always prioritised the Speakers and Amplifier and then Source in that order.

For me the speakers have the biggest impact on the way things sound, some suit a room, others don't, you may like some, dislike others etc.

Having the best speakers I can afford and then an amp with a vice like grip on them for me has always been the most important thing.

The EPOS speakers probably have more to give though.

I think a Supernait would be the thing to get here, they are highly rated by many, plenty of power and you get a neat upgrade in terms of the pre and power sections.

Should have more finesse and more grip on the speakers, I'm sure you'd get more out of them. The 150 is fairly modest in output and current delivery...

Edited by urquattroGus on Thursday 29th March 11:55

[gizlaroc]

For me it is always amp first, this gives the separation, ability to drive speakers properly, control, soundstage.

I have had £100 speakers absolutely rock on £2000 amps, yet you can't get as good the other way around.

Not saying you have to spend a fortune, you can buy things like the Yamaha amps for £500 that are pretty amazing.


But for me it is always amp, then speakers and then source.

Differences between speakers can be massive, but again, some of the best speakers out there are priced really well.
Quad S Series will run with anything up to £3-4k and the S2s can be had for £500.

Source will make a difference and it can be all the difference, but the changes are getting subtle and you need to have the rest of the system sound really right to notice the subtleties that decent sources bring to the table.

[legzr1]

The last two posts make me happy.

Finally, after decades of certain U.K. brands pushing the source-first mantra (strangely enough, brands that made their money from turntables and ludicrously priced motors and arms and the like) sense seems to be winning through.

[ou sont les biscuits]

urquattroGus said:

Controversial, but I've always prioritised the Speakers and Amplifier and then Source in that order.

For me the speakers have the biggest impact on the way things sound, some suit a room, others don't, you may like some, dislike others etc.

Having the best speakers I can afford and then an amp with a vice like grip on them for me has always been the most important thing.

The EPOS speakers probably have more to give though.

I think a Supernait would be the thing to get here, they are highly rated by many, plenty of power and you get a neat upgrade in terms of the pre and power sections.

Should have more finesse and more grip on the speakers, I'm sure you'd get more out of them. The 150 is fairly modest in output and current delivery...

I'm not sure I'm going to add a lot of value here, but I really rate the Supernait. I have two Naim systems at home - one with a Supernait, and the other with a NAC252/Supercap DR and NAP300DR.

The Supernait stands up well against its much more expensive cousins - to the point where I've been thinking about ditching the 252/300 and replacing three boxes with another Supernait. OMMV.

[JimbobVFR]

urquattroGus said:

Controversial, but I've always prioritised the Speakers and Amplifier and then Source in that order.

For me the speakers have the biggest impact on the way things sound, some suit a room, others don't, you may like some, dislike others etc.

If you want controversial hold on to your hat! 😀

Personally I think the room has way more influence than we give it credit for, my money would be going on a Mini DSP Dirac live box, this will give just about the best upgrade for the money. I was sceptical myself but having listened to an acquaintances system it really is that good.

[legzr1]

JimbobVFR said:

If you want controversial hold on to your hat! ??

Personally I think the room has way more influence than we give it credit for, my money would be going on a Mini DSP Dirac live box, this will give just about the best upgrade for the money. I was sceptical myself but having listened to an acquaintances system it really is that good.

I heard what an antimode 8033 did for sub bass and bought one myself with excellent results.Ive since moved onto the S-II allowing me to integrate the sub on surround and 2-channel.
The dual core is next on the ‘hit list’ but I’m not sure about EQing up into the 100Hz and above range but I suppose it’s worth a try.

And all for the price of 60cm unobtanium interconnects...

[urquattroGus]

Glad that I'm not the only one prioritising Amps and Speakers, having said that I've now gone for active speakers.

About a year ago I ditched my all Naim and Neat system, (282/HiCap//250DR, HDX, NDac, Momentum SX3i etc etc) for Meridian DSP 5200SE, Meridian 218 and a Roon server system. Saved space and haven't looked back. The Meridian's have some adjustments themselves and with Roon you can also enable customisableDSP, not that I've tied. All of my CD's are ripped to Hardisk and I can stream Tidal in 16bit of greater Quality, fully MQA compatible too.

And yes the sound is engaging and great

[gizlaroc]

I agree there, I have run Meridian DSP speakers for 15+ years now.

You can pick up speakerlink DSP5200s for around £2500 and they will keep up with any system under £15k imho.

I moved my Meridians on a few months ago, decided I wanted to get back into a bit of box swapping.
In all honesty I have regretted it and ill go back.

The thing about the Meridian DSPs is they sound a full and big at -30db at midnight when the house is asleep as they do when playing at 0db when everyone is out.
You don't get that with regular amps and speakers.

I am not a Naim fan at all, far too bright for me, but get many love it.

[Itsallicanafford]

...so, this little fella has made an appearance



13 Wpc but drives the Epos’s nicely in my 5x5m front room

[urquattroGus]

Is that an original Nait??

Nice.