Have you considered doing just one set per exercise?
Discussion
Whatever weights session they're doing, everyone I speak to seems to do 2-3 sets per exercise, be it bicep curls, leg presses or what have you.
Years ago I read of a study which concluded that the first set has the greatest effect (perhaps it tears more muscle fibres).
If this is right then one could potentially save a lot of time.
Anyone tried it?
Years ago I read of a study which concluded that the first set has the greatest effect (perhaps it tears more muscle fibres).
If this is right then one could potentially save a lot of time.
Anyone tried it?
Mothersruin said:
Are you doing a bunch of warm up sets with increasing weights to get there?
Yes, maybe 3 to 5 sets, depending on how much weight I need to add to the bar- enough to get the blood flowing, but not enough to take away from the top set. (I'll also sometimes do a lighter, reppier back off set after the top one, but not always- depends if I want the particular muscle/group to get a bit more volume, and if I'm even able too after the top set!)Edited by didelydoo on Monday 2nd April 09:09
I read a discussion about this on reddit the other day and found this as a result - https://www.strongerbyscience.com/more-is-more/
It's not a long read but very relevant.
It's not a long read but very relevant.
gregs656 said:
I read a discussion about this on reddit the other day and found this as a result - https://www.strongerbyscience.com/more-is-more/
It's not a long read but very relevant.
Volume is limited by time and recovery- you can't simply do more and more ad infinitum. When beginning, volume works well, but as you get stronger and begin to shift larger poundages, the same volume isn't possible without eating in to recovery. That's where you increase intensity instead with maximal poundages, but lower volume. Note, this works well for strength, but mostly for muscular growth/bodybuilding.It's not a long read but very relevant.
Edit to add: As you're working with a lower volume, you can also train more frequently.
Edited by didelydoo on Monday 2nd April 10:54
I have done in the past. One of my friends used to work in IT in a school and over summer, we'd train together in the school's gym. Since they had proper equipment, I'd be testing my 1RM and working towards improving it so I was only doing 1 set of 3 or 4 rep deadlifts once a week. The rest of the week, I'd train at home with less weight.
didelydoo said:
Volume is limited by time and recovery- you can't simply do more and more ad infinitum. When beginning, volume works well, but as you get stronger and begin to shift larger poundages, the same volume isn't possible without eating in to recovery. That's where you increase intensity instead with maximal poundages, but lower volume. Note, this works well for strength, but mostly for muscular growth/bodybuilding.
Edit to add: As you're working with a lower volume, you can also train more frequently.
Did you read the article? Just that seems more of a general statement than anything related particularly to what was said in it, particularly as it wasn't a study of beginners.Edit to add: As you're working with a lower volume, you can also train more frequently.
Quite like this 'decision tree' from it
gregs656 said:
Did you read the article? Just that seems more of a general statement than anything related particularly to what was said in it, particularly as it wasn't a study of beginners.
I did, did you read the comment, there's nothing general about it?Edit- the article is about volume, my comment talks of limiting factors related to volume.
This interesting and entertaining book talks about this and other ideas.
Never Let Go: A Philosophy of Lifting, Living and Learning
Never Let Go: A Philosophy of Lifting, Living and Learning
Hard to take very much from the experiences of steroid users, though. No way of knowing what Yates would have done without the massive anabolic doses.
The evidence on this seems to be all over the place. My best guess is that the extent to which one set will give you good results will vary greatly from person to person and probably also depending on strength levels.
5/3/1 is a hugely successful intermediate programme and is based on only one hard set for each of the big lifts. And people like DD on here get great results.
On the other hand, the studies cited on that article mostly suggest that more sets = better. But I am not sure how much one can really take from analysing lots of flawed studies (and studies that may not be highly relevant to you and your training and other circumstances).
My take on it would be that one set might well give you as good results as 3 or more, if you can hit that one set damn hard. Beginners need not apply. And it might not be for you. Trial and error.
I made good progress on 5/3/1 but then stalled badly. I think I needed more volume. But I may be wrong.
The evidence on this seems to be all over the place. My best guess is that the extent to which one set will give you good results will vary greatly from person to person and probably also depending on strength levels.
5/3/1 is a hugely successful intermediate programme and is based on only one hard set for each of the big lifts. And people like DD on here get great results.
On the other hand, the studies cited on that article mostly suggest that more sets = better. But I am not sure how much one can really take from analysing lots of flawed studies (and studies that may not be highly relevant to you and your training and other circumstances).
My take on it would be that one set might well give you as good results as 3 or more, if you can hit that one set damn hard. Beginners need not apply. And it might not be for you. Trial and error.
I made good progress on 5/3/1 but then stalled badly. I think I needed more volume. But I may be wrong.
For those interested, check out the science thread, or the wiki, some good stuff there.
was just reading another way to increase both maximal and endurance
https://www.strongfirst.com/strength-numbers-case-...
was just reading another way to increase both maximal and endurance
https://www.strongfirst.com/strength-numbers-case-...
Halb said:
For those interested, check out the science thread, or the wiki, some good stuff there.
was just reading another way to increase both maximal and endurance
https://www.strongfirst.com/strength-numbers-case-...
Kinda the opposite, though - spending hours and hours to achieve fairly small strength gains. was just reading another way to increase both maximal and endurance
https://www.strongfirst.com/strength-numbers-case-...
Everyone responds to things differently. I've tried a whole swathe of things. This works extremely well for me.
Earlier in my training career, I think more volume works better- it gets you used to movement patterns and builds a good strength base. Once I got stronger, this is what works better, for me.
I've tried every type of training plan I can think off- try things, report back. Don't write something off as not being good, having never even tried it.
It depends on your aim too. You want to get strong in powerlifts? Do them more works well, but you have to neglect pretty much every other movement. You want to get big, and stronger- hit every muscle with heavy weights- but you'll never be able to do so at high volume; nor will you be able to without having a substantial strength base first.
Figure out what works for you, commensurate with your aims. That's what I did, and now I know what works best for me.
Earlier in my training career, I think more volume works better- it gets you used to movement patterns and builds a good strength base. Once I got stronger, this is what works better, for me.
I've tried every type of training plan I can think off- try things, report back. Don't write something off as not being good, having never even tried it.
It depends on your aim too. You want to get strong in powerlifts? Do them more works well, but you have to neglect pretty much every other movement. You want to get big, and stronger- hit every muscle with heavy weights- but you'll never be able to do so at high volume; nor will you be able to without having a substantial strength base first.
Figure out what works for you, commensurate with your aims. That's what I did, and now I know what works best for me.
The extent of variation in response to training is enormous. It’s not very sexy or exciting to write about (so you won’t see much mention of it on T-Nation). But it’s essential to bear in mind that works brilliantly for one person might not work at all for another.
Plenty of bodybuilders have added loads of mass going very high volumes and using modest weights. Others would not grow at all on that protocol.
My own experience suggests that it may even differ across your own body, let alone as between people. What works for my upper body does not seem to work for my legs, I think because I cannot recover from lots of lower body volume. I bet it’s the same for a lot of people. As DD says, you’ll have to experiment and give various things a good go (try them for months before forming a view).
Plenty of bodybuilders have added loads of mass going very high volumes and using modest weights. Others would not grow at all on that protocol.
My own experience suggests that it may even differ across your own body, let alone as between people. What works for my upper body does not seem to work for my legs, I think because I cannot recover from lots of lower body volume. I bet it’s the same for a lot of people. As DD says, you’ll have to experiment and give various things a good go (try them for months before forming a view).
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