Will fork ball joint breaker damage boot?

[Norfolkandchance]

I'm changing the front lower control arms and track rod ends on my EP3 Civic. Although I've rebuilt lots of old engines, I'm not experienced with steering and suspension.

Everything has come undone nicely, including the ball joint on the track rod.

But I'm concerned about the ball joint at the bottom of the upright.

I have a scissor type splitter but when I offer it up the the ball joint appears too big to fit between the forked part of the splitter. It might go on with a hammer but I'm worried about damaging the boot as I'm not sure how easy it would be to remove and replace the boot. I could buy a bigger scissor splitter but anything more than a few mm bigger and there won't be enough arm for it to lever against. I could also used a fork-type splitter but my concern is damaging the boot. I can't see how hammering either type of splitter wouldn't cause a lot of damage.

Am I being over sensitive? What would you do? Is it acceptable to lever the control arm down, so pulling against the strut?

Thanks

[E-bmw]

Normally just a couple of good hammer blows to the body of the socket where the joint taper passes through does the job, never needed to do any other in over 30 years of working on cars, just make sure you leave the nut on loose to prevent damage to the threads.

[Easternlight]

Wouldn't use a fork type splitter, Nealy always wrecks the boot.
Any chance of getting a bit heat on it, e.g. blowlamp, still need to be careful of the boot mind.

[Norfolkandchance]

Right - so it won't move so I'm going to have to risk damaging the boot.

The manual says new boots can be "clipped on" but manuals also say to "tap" things that require belting with the biggest hammer you got, so I'm wary. Should I be?

(Also, I can't find a website that sells just the boot!)

[Norfolkandchance]

Just to fill you in - I've hit the lower control arm, a lot. I've heated the arm (which made the grease melt and come out!).I've hit the bottom of the ball joint thread (with nut to protect). Then I've done all of the above with a jack under the bottom of the ball joint to put some weight on it.

Out of ideas that aren't the pickle fork.

[harrycovert]

Just to clarify ,you are hitting the bottom of the control arm using two hammers simultaneously on opposite sides of the arm ?
This usually works for me

[paintman]

I had a similar issue with the bottom joint of my Sprinter van. I was replacing it anyway so finesse wasn't required.
The pin simply wouldn't shift out of its hole no matter what I tried. Even the pickle fork failed - the first one broke & the second one the forks deformed.
Finally cut through the pin, removed the hub & carrier, drilled a hole through the remains big enough to slip a junior hacksaw blade through it & cut a slot which then made knocking it out easy.
Heating with a blow torch was ineffective & I don't have access to oxy-acetylene at home.
I've never had one before or since that was such a B£$%^&* to shift. (and I've since done the one on the other side which was a doddle!)

Good luck with yours!

Be careful heating complete balljoints as there are anecdotes of them exploding.

Edited by paintman on Saturday 31st March 17:16

[Norfolkandchance]

Thanks for the replies.

I didn't want to have to disturb or replace the boot but I guess that might be impossible to avoid. But changing the ball joint looks difficult!

I'm totally at a loss now. Big pickle fork can't shift it even if I don't care about boot.

Pissed off.

[paintman]

I was having a look through youtube out of curiosity & came across this 'how to'.
The speech gets a bit odd in places & he was having a lot of trouble getting stuff apart - especially the old ball joint out of the link as even the proper tool wasn't doing it.
View from 10.06 & it seems someone had welded the actual ball joint in place!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbWWOGK6JHg

WD40 is not a penetrating fluid. Use Plusgas or similar - diesel is pretty good.

If you're not in a position to cope with completely dismantling the assembly I'd suggest putting it back together & letting a garage do it.

Edited by paintman on Saturday 31st March 23:28

[Blaster72]

E-bmw said:

Normally just a couple of good hammer blows to the body of the socket where the joint taper passes through does the job, never needed to do any other in over 30 years of working on cars, just make sure you leave the nut on loose to prevent damage to the threads.

This is the answer, biggest hammer you've got and a good solid whack. The key is to hit the right place as E-bmw says.

[E-bmw]

paintman said:

View from 10.06 & it seems someone had welded the actual ball joint in place!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbWWOGK6JHg

WD40 is not a penetrating fluid. Use Plusgas or similar - diesel is pretty good.

I don't think he was very happy when he found that!

Correct, although they do now make a penetrating fluid, generic WD40 is NOT a penetrating fluid, as you say, diesel or even a mix of ATF & acetone are about the best. Plusgas or 3 in 1 also work fairly well straight from the can.

[steveo3002]

Blaster72 said:

This is the answer, biggest hammer you've got and a good solid whack. The key is to hit the right place as E-bmw says.

looks like some sort of magic trick when you get it right lol

[Norfolkandchance]

Blaster72 said:

E-bmw said:

Normally just a couple of good hammer blows to the body of the socket where the joint taper passes through does the job, never needed to do any other in over 30 years of working on cars, just make sure you leave the nut on loose to prevent damage to the threads.

This is the answer, biggest hammer you've got and a good solid whack. The key is to hit the right place as E-bmw says.

I'm doing my best! I'm using a lump hammer and hitting the side of the socket. It is on axle stands so I'm lying on my side and can't get the best swing, but I've hit it two-handed and hard enough that my ears are ringing. Lots of times. I guess I could get a slightly better angle if I took the disk off.

I've got Plus Gas. I haven't used it because it can't see how to get it in there without risking damaging the boot. So I'll try that.

thanks for all the replies.

[E-bmw]

That was just an aside about penetrating oil, it will do the square root of nowt for breaking a ball joint taper, the only things that will are heat, shock, tension, or major cutting/drilling to suit, and that is the 100% last resort.

[E-bmw]

You need to hit it ideally on both sides simultaneously as per the pic, normally 1 side is enough, but both always works for me.



And, yes for the pedants among me I know that is a TRE, but they are still ball joints, it is the most obvious pic I could find quickly.

[227bhp]

^^ That's correct, two lump hammers at the same time, one is no good as the thing just deflects away. There is a possibility it can snap clean off too, i've seen it done. Oh, as said earlier they really do explode as well if too much heat is applied in the wrong area, a local garage near me has got one embedded in the underside of the roof.

[Norfolkandchance]

thanks again. I can't hit both sides on my own with much force so I'm waiting for a friend. But if the splitters won't do it it seems unlikely to work to me.

[Jakg]

Could you post a picture?

Would one of those hydraulic ram pushers have good access?

[Norfolkandchance]

Not sure why its sideways, but you get the idea! Plus Gas-soaked demonstrates frustration!

[E-bmw]

Norfolkandchance said:

thanks again. I can't hit both sides on my own with much force so I'm waiting for a friend. But if the splitters won't do it it seems unlikely to work to me.

If you can't swing at both sides, hold the "non-swinging" hammer behind the joint & hit the joint with the other, the second one is as above to make sure the joint doesn't just deflect away.

As someone else said above, when it happens it looks like a magic trick.

What you are hoping to do it to microscopically change the shape of the taper cup just enough for the taper to be broken & the ball joint just falls out.