Belt squeel - adjusting JE bracket?
Discussion
TV8 said:
thanks Peter. It is quite easy to twist to 90 degrees. I will loosen it off and apply more tension!
What Peter said Graham forget what you know about traditional V belt these are designed to be taut 
and that 1/4 twist shall be firm 
you could always build yourself a natty adjuster (had this stuff knocking around) TBH once tensioned correctly maintenance is zero 
so one of my boredom mods 
Edited by Sardonicus on Saturday 31st March 21:04
Is it only on start up & do you know the make of your old belt?
Sounds like you need to tighten your belt but if that doesn't work you could try a different make of belt, very surprisingly I once found a narrower 6PK belt quieter but concluded it must be due the different manufacture of the belt. Alternatively you could try and buy one of these grooved water pump pulleys from RPI.
Sounds like you need to tighten your belt but if that doesn't work you could try a different make of belt, very surprisingly I once found a narrower 6PK belt quieter but concluded it must be due the different manufacture of the belt. Alternatively you could try and buy one of these grooved water pump pulleys from RPI.
stevesprint said:
Is it only on start up & do you know the make of your old belt?
Sounds like you need to tighten your belt but if that doesn't work you could try a different make of belt, very surprisingly I once found a narrower 6PK belt quieter but concluded it must be due the different manufacture of the belt. Alternatively you could try and buy one of these grooved water pump pulleys from RPI.
Hi Steve,Sounds like you need to tighten your belt but if that doesn't work you could try a different make of belt, very surprisingly I once found a narrower 6PK belt quieter but concluded it must be due the different manufacture of the belt. Alternatively you could try and buy one of these grooved water pump pulleys from RPI.
not sure of the belt makes but its a lot better with the new belt. That pulley looks good but cant see it on the RPI website. If nipping it up tighter next week doesnt sort it, then I will give them a call
Dont forget the water pump puts up little resistance and many people put slipping/screeching fan belts down to the water pump slipping this as always been incorrect its the alternator pulley's reluctance to rotate whilst charging the battery causing the slipping hence why they usually make a racket just after starting as the alternator tries to put back the charge the starter just removed from the battery cranking the engine knurling of the WP pulley should not be necessary 
no production car I know of that as the water pump pulley running on the back smooth face of the belt has this knurling present Carsy the alternator is a Bosch unit fitted to the MK1 KA with the rattly old 1.3 push-rod motor
its the alternator pulley's reluctance to rotate whilst charging the battery causing the slipping hence why they usually make a racket just after starting as the alternator tries to put back the charge the starter just removed from the battery cranking the engine knurling of the WP pulley should not be necessary no production car I know of that as the water pump pulley running on the back smooth face of the belt has this knurling present Carsy the alternator is a Bosch unit fitted to the MK1 KA with the rattly old 1.3 push-rod motor Edited by Sardonicus on Sunday 1st April 23:32
I thought that, on a standard car with the belt tensioner (hence not a JE bracket), a squealing belt was a hint that one had a problem.
Can anyone help me understand why some delete the tensioner? Personally I feel it serves a purpose, but every day is a school day for mechanics of my ability level (marginally above absolute zero).
Apologies Graham, can I just ask the collective how tight a sump plug should be while I have you, Peter and Simon on tap? I had to remove some oil from my car yesterday, lying flat on my back on the drive, left handed, 19mm ring spanner and at full stretch. Had to hit the spanner with a hammer to get the sump plug to undo, as Mat Muscles Smith had tightened it up. So I have done it up as tight as i could in that awkward position, but I doubt it was as tight as the noble Mr Smith (not suggesting he is tight, just that he is stronger than me and had the car on his ramp). No, I don't have a torque wrench.
Can anyone help me understand why some delete the tensioner? Personally I feel it serves a purpose, but every day is a school day for mechanics of my ability level (marginally above absolute zero).
Apologies Graham, can I just ask the collective how tight a sump plug should be while I have you, Peter and Simon on tap? I had to remove some oil from my car yesterday, lying flat on my back on the drive, left handed, 19mm ring spanner and at full stretch. Had to hit the spanner with a hammer to get the sump plug to undo, as Mat Muscles Smith had tightened it up. So I have done it up as tight as i could in that awkward position, but I doubt it was as tight as the noble Mr Smith (not suggesting he is tight, just that he is stronger than me and had the car on his ramp). No, I don't have a torque wrench.
FT Anthony but I don’t go over the top.
Tensioner.
Simple, the JE one removes the ugly lumpy bracket that RR use seems to be the reason because it can’t work any better than the tensioner does.
Infact if you don’t get the correct tension it will be worse.
The O/E ones can be known to fail or make some noise.
I got mine from Powers and it’s been fine. Beware cheap copies.
Someone once mentioned the spring tension weakens on the o/e ones but I’m not convinced of that at all.
My old one I’m pretty sure was the original and failed at 50,000 miles or so, the bearing was worn.
After this comment was made I checked it, the tension was still just like the new one!
I’m not saying the JE one is better or worse.
It does look better for sure.
I think I just like the tension on my belt being what the tensioner is designed to be rather than me guessing.
A worry I don’t need
Tensioner.
Simple, the JE one removes the ugly lumpy bracket that RR use seems to be the reason because it can’t work any better than the tensioner does.
Infact if you don’t get the correct tension it will be worse.
The O/E ones can be known to fail or make some noise.
I got mine from Powers and it’s been fine. Beware cheap copies.
Someone once mentioned the spring tension weakens on the o/e ones but I’m not convinced of that at all.
My old one I’m pretty sure was the original and failed at 50,000 miles or so, the bearing was worn.
After this comment was made I checked it, the tension was still just like the new one!
I’m not saying the JE one is better or worse.
It does look better for sure.
I think I just like the tension on my belt being what the tensioner is designed to be rather than me guessing.
A worry I don’t need
This ^ if your unsure stick with stock /standard , Qbee the sump plug dont need to be massively tight even an adjustable spanner can provide adequate torque I say this because most dont have the correct size at their disposal but that is not an issue if you need more than an open ended spanner or adjustable to tighten or loosen its too tight 
its firm tight and certainly not a wee nip up 
if you need more than an open ended spanner or adjustable to tighten or loosen its too tight its firm tight and certainly not a wee nip up Sardonicus said:
Dont forget the water pump puts up little resistance and many people put slipping/screeching fan belts down to the water pump slipping this as always been incorrect its the alternator pulley's reluctance to rotate whilst charging the battery causing the slipping hence why they usually make a racket just after starting as the alternator tries to put back the charge the starter just removed from the battery cranking the engine knurling of the WP pulley should not be necessary no production car I know of that as the water pump pulley running on the back smooth face of the belt has this knurling present Carsy the alternator is a Bosch unit fitted to the MK1 KA with the rattly old 1.3 push-rod motor
Makes sense! I had a little burst of enthusiasm towards the car and tried sorting a couple of the things that didn’t get done last summer. Pulled the car out of the garage and didn’t even get to drive it. Need to give it a run before I take it up to Burghley next week! Hopefully, it will stop raining one day this week its the alternator pulley's reluctance to rotate whilst charging the battery causing the slipping hence why they usually make a racket just after starting as the alternator tries to put back the charge the starter just removed from the battery cranking the engine knurling of the WP pulley should not be necessary no production car I know of that as the water pump pulley running on the back smooth face of the belt has this knurling present Carsy the alternator is a Bosch unit fitted to the MK1 KA with the rattly old 1.3 push-rod motor Edited by Sardonicus on Sunday 1st April 23:32
Sardonicus said:
Dont forget the water pump puts up little resistance and many people put slipping/screeching fan belts down to the water pump slipping this as always been incorrect its the alternator pulley's reluctance to rotate whilst charging the battery causing the slipping hence why they usually make a racket just after starting as the alternator tries to put back the charge the starter just removed from the battery cranking the engine knurling of the WP pulley should not be necessary no production car I know of that as the water pump pulley running on the back smooth face of the belt has this knurling present Carsy the alternator is a Bosch unit fitted to the MK1 KA with the rattly old 1.3 push-rod motor
^^^ this is absolutely spot on. Water pumps spin very easily so no need to knurl them. In fact the smooth flat surface of the belt needs to run on a smooth flat pulley to give maximum efficiency. I would imagine the rougher surface will cause the belt to wear more quickly. As said, if it was necessary, then BMW, Merc and the rest would be doing it. its the alternator pulley's reluctance to rotate whilst charging the battery causing the slipping hence why they usually make a racket just after starting as the alternator tries to put back the charge the starter just removed from the battery cranking the engine knurling of the WP pulley should not be necessary no production car I know of that as the water pump pulley running on the back smooth face of the belt has this knurling present Carsy the alternator is a Bosch unit fitted to the MK1 KA with the rattly old 1.3 push-rod motor The alternator is trying to slow the engine down hence the squealing. Even if after tightening, the squeal remains after start up it may indicate a battery in low condition.
Simon, you must be a proper Ford nutter. Bet you've got pics of old skool Fords for wallpaper
Sardonicus said:
Dont forget the water pump puts up little resistance and many people put slipping/screeching fan belts down to the water pump slipping this as always been incorrect its the alternator pulley's reluctance to rotate whilst charging the battery causing the slipping hence why they usually make a racket just after starting as the alternator tries to put back the charge the starter just removed from the battery cranking the engine
The common V belt alternator screech for the first few minutes after starting is not an issue with the JE alternator bracket. The issue I had was the lack of power steering pulley which meant the belt had about 60° contact with the water pump pulley appose to nearing 180°, as a result when the engine fires up the water pump pulley squeaks for one or two second only as the RPMs shoot up from cranking speed and then its silent. Loading up the alternator with headlights, wipers & fans etc didn't make any difference as the alternator pulley has 180° contact. its the alternator pulley's reluctance to rotate whilst charging the battery causing the slipping hence why they usually make a racket just after starting as the alternator tries to put back the charge the starter just removed from the battery cranking the engine
This is not my Griff and I hope the owner doesn’t mind.
TV8 said:
Hi Steve,
not sure of the belt makes but its a lot better with the new belt. That pulley looks good but cant see it on the RPI website. If nipping it up tighter next week doesnt sort it, then I will give them a call
Grahamnot sure of the belt makes but its a lot better with the new belt. That pulley looks good but cant see it on the RPI website. If nipping it up tighter next week doesnt sort it, then I will give them a call
If you don't have a PAS pulley what’s the part number (length) of your new belt? Back in the 2000’s I used the belt Morgan had specifically manufactured for the Morgan +8 7PK1025 as it was the only 7PK short enough.
stevesprint said:
Sardonicus said:
Dont forget the water pump puts up little resistance and many people put slipping/screeching fan belts down to the water pump slipping this as always been incorrect its the alternator pulley's reluctance to rotate whilst charging the battery causing the slipping hence why they usually make a racket just after starting as the alternator tries to put back the charge the starter just removed from the battery cranking the engine
The common V belt alternator screech for the first few minutes after starting is not an issue with the JE alternator bracket. The issue I had was the lack of power steering pulley which meant the belt had about 60° contact with the water pump pulley appose to nearing 180°, as a result when the engine fires up the water pump pulley squeaks for one or two second only as the RPMs shoot up from cranking speed and then its silent. Loading up the alternator with headlights, wipers & fans etc didn't make any difference as the alternator pulley has 180° contact. its the alternator pulley's reluctance to rotate whilst charging the battery causing the slipping hence why they usually make a racket just after starting as the alternator tries to put back the charge the starter just removed from the battery cranking the engineThis is not my Griff and I hope the owner doesn’t mind.
TV8 said:
Hi Steve,
not sure of the belt makes but its a lot better with the new belt. That pulley looks good but cant see it on the RPI website. If nipping it up tighter next week doesnt sort it, then I will give them a call
Grahamnot sure of the belt makes but its a lot better with the new belt. That pulley looks good but cant see it on the RPI website. If nipping it up tighter next week doesnt sort it, then I will give them a call
If you don't have a PAS pulley what’s the part number (length) of your new belt? Back in the 2000’s I used the belt Morgan had specifically manufactured for the Morgan +8 7PK1025 as it was the only 7PK short enough.
The alternator will be trying to slow the belt regardless especially in the cold weather we are having and the battery will be less efficient too.
We've had this discussion before about tensioners and nothing on here would make me change my mind and remove the original spring tensioner.
On my 4l pre serp in the other car, the V belt squeals from cold for a few seconds no matter how tight it is and they should not be overtightened. 3 different makes of belt made no difference.
Even after 2 weeks standing in this utter crap weather the spring loaded tensioner on the Chim does its job with no dramas (or noise).
My belt with the JE bracket installed is quiet at a mouse, not a squeak!
It all works perfectly
And no belt dressings either, but I have used the 303 Aerospace stuff before on other cars and it works a charm, avoid the sticky belt dressings BTW... the 303 stuff works differently by conditioning the rubber which is why belts last forever after the 303 treatment.
It all works perfectly
And no belt dressings either, but I have used the 303 Aerospace stuff before on other cars and it works a charm, avoid the sticky belt dressings BTW... the 303 stuff works differently by conditioning the rubber which is why belts last forever after the 303 treatment.
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