Sacked in probation - Need assistance
Discussion
Hi All,
Half way through my 6 months probation period a key staff member resigned. I replaced him with a contractor in Jan. He is unable to do the role which led to all sorts of issues; basically he's not capable of doing the role.
My probation was extended to May end with clear targets. The extension was due the following reasons;
1. Not being able to form a relationship with a key director.
2. Not interviewing with a second interviewer.
One month into the extension I was called into a meeting with HR and my manager. The HR girl alleged I bullied the contractor. She interviewed 3 people and had gathered evidence. They provided me a summarised bullet points which I read and disagreed with. They then stated this is unacceptable and sacked me on the spot.
I went into a team meeting to tell my staff what happened. I asked the contractor quite clearly if I bullied him. He didn't come up with anything. My other staff also didn't think I bullied him. Also the contractor did not raise the matter with HR. It was someone else.
Before all this kicked off the contractor told me what happened and he said the HR girl was trying to dig the dirt on me. He also said in a second meeting with her he said all was well. She seems to have been selective in what she has disclosured.
I think the HR girl has been behaving unprofessionally. There's quite a few points which indicates unfair treatment by her.
I asked for a detailed summary of the reports put together in these interviews. She said she can not disclose these even though in the meeting she said she would.
I honestly do not think I bullied him. I did have to be quite firm in managing him. That said its not bullying.
I have the right to appeal within 5 days. I want to do this and ask for my job back.
I do think I've been shafted. What can I do. Is there anywhere I can go to get help. Not sure I can afford a lawyer.
Half way through my 6 months probation period a key staff member resigned. I replaced him with a contractor in Jan. He is unable to do the role which led to all sorts of issues; basically he's not capable of doing the role.
My probation was extended to May end with clear targets. The extension was due the following reasons;
1. Not being able to form a relationship with a key director.
2. Not interviewing with a second interviewer.
One month into the extension I was called into a meeting with HR and my manager. The HR girl alleged I bullied the contractor. She interviewed 3 people and had gathered evidence. They provided me a summarised bullet points which I read and disagreed with. They then stated this is unacceptable and sacked me on the spot.
I went into a team meeting to tell my staff what happened. I asked the contractor quite clearly if I bullied him. He didn't come up with anything. My other staff also didn't think I bullied him. Also the contractor did not raise the matter with HR. It was someone else.
Before all this kicked off the contractor told me what happened and he said the HR girl was trying to dig the dirt on me. He also said in a second meeting with her he said all was well. She seems to have been selective in what she has disclosured.
I think the HR girl has been behaving unprofessionally. There's quite a few points which indicates unfair treatment by her.
I asked for a detailed summary of the reports put together in these interviews. She said she can not disclose these even though in the meeting she said she would.
I honestly do not think I bullied him. I did have to be quite firm in managing him. That said its not bullying.
I have the right to appeal within 5 days. I want to do this and ask for my job back.
I do think I've been shafted. What can I do. Is there anywhere I can go to get help. Not sure I can afford a lawyer.
Edited by Lostprophet on Monday 2nd April 10:58
Lostprophet said:
Hi All,
Half way through my 6 months probation period a key staff member resigned. I replaced him with a contractor in Jan. He is unable to do the role which led to all sorts of issues; basically he's not capable of doing the role.
[...]
1. Not being able to form a relationship with a key director.
[...]
What can I do.
Move on. This will go precisely nowhere. It's not nice and I totally understand the desire to stay but it isn't happening.Half way through my 6 months probation period a key staff member resigned. I replaced him with a contractor in Jan. He is unable to do the role which led to all sorts of issues; basically he's not capable of doing the role.
[...]
1. Not being able to form a relationship with a key director.
[...]
What can I do.
Basically as above, your face doesn't fit, you're being "managed out". The rest of it is theatre.
The only way I could see you resolving this, would be a very frank conversation with the Director in question, but I think that's a very long shot.
Concentrate on finding something else.
Just one question,
You took the contractor on in Jan and he can't do the role. Why is he still there?
The only way I could see you resolving this, would be a very frank conversation with the Director in question, but I think that's a very long shot.
Concentrate on finding something else.
Just one question,
You took the contractor on in Jan and he can't do the role. Why is he still there?
k the lot of them. They will soon learn that they made the wrong decision.Maybe I'm misinterpreting the situation here but it seems really strange that they're sticking up for the Contractor rather than yourself. Surely you didn't "need" to bully him, you could have just dimissed him, couldn't you? After all, you're a permie and he's a contractor? No disrespect to Contractors intended btw....
As others have implied I think the Contractor issue is a bit of a smokescreen. the fact that they extended your probation period suggests that they're not happy with you generally (apologies as this isn't meant to come across harshly). Not accepting the bullet points they summarised won't have done you any favours - it suggests that you think they're completely in the wrong. They may also have come to the conclusion that if that's what you thought then they weren't going to achieve a happy middle ground.
TL:DR If you're intent on fighting your corner you need a Union Rep or an Employment lawyer. i think the best you can hope for is a positive reference.
As others have implied I think the Contractor issue is a bit of a smokescreen. the fact that they extended your probation period suggests that they're not happy with you generally (apologies as this isn't meant to come across harshly). Not accepting the bullet points they summarised won't have done you any favours - it suggests that you think they're completely in the wrong. They may also have come to the conclusion that if that's what you thought then they weren't going to achieve a happy middle ground.
TL:DR If you're intent on fighting your corner you need a Union Rep or an Employment lawyer. i think the best you can hope for is a positive reference.
Lostprophet said:
Hi All,
Half way through my 6 months probation period a key staff member resigned. I replaced him with a contractor in Jan. He is unable to do the role which led to all sorts of issues; basically he's not capable of doing the role.
My probation was extended to May end with clear targets. The extension was due the following reasons;
1. Not being able to form a relationship with a key director.
2. Not interviewing with a second interviewer.
One month into the extension I was called into a meeting with HR and my manager. The HR girl alleged I bullied the contractor. She interviewed 3 people and had gathered evidence. They provided me a summarised bullet points which I read and disagreed with. They then stated this is unacceptable and sacked me on the spot.
I went into a team meeting to tell my staff what happened. I asked the contractor quite clearly if I bullied him. He didn't come up with anything. My other staff also didn't think I bullied him. Also the contractor did not raise the matter with HR. It was someone else.
Before all this kicked off the contractor told me what happened and he said the HR girl was trying to dig the dirt on me. He also said in a second meeting with her he said all was well. She seems to have been selective in what she has disclosured.
I think the HR girl has been behaving unprofessionally. There's quite a few points which indicates unfair treatment by her.
I asked for a detailed summary of the reports put together in these interviews. She said she can not disclose these even though in the meeting she said she would.
I honestly do not think I bullied him. I did have to be quite firm in managing him. That said its not bullying.
I have the right to appeal within 5 days. I want to do this and ask for my job back.
I do think I've been shafted. What can I do. Is there anywhere I can go to get help. Not sure I can afford a lawyer.
You've been managed out. Not much you can do other than try to learn from the experience objectively.Half way through my 6 months probation period a key staff member resigned. I replaced him with a contractor in Jan. He is unable to do the role which led to all sorts of issues; basically he's not capable of doing the role.
My probation was extended to May end with clear targets. The extension was due the following reasons;
1. Not being able to form a relationship with a key director.
2. Not interviewing with a second interviewer.
One month into the extension I was called into a meeting with HR and my manager. The HR girl alleged I bullied the contractor. She interviewed 3 people and had gathered evidence. They provided me a summarised bullet points which I read and disagreed with. They then stated this is unacceptable and sacked me on the spot.
I went into a team meeting to tell my staff what happened. I asked the contractor quite clearly if I bullied him. He didn't come up with anything. My other staff also didn't think I bullied him. Also the contractor did not raise the matter with HR. It was someone else.
Before all this kicked off the contractor told me what happened and he said the HR girl was trying to dig the dirt on me. He also said in a second meeting with her he said all was well. She seems to have been selective in what she has disclosured.
I think the HR girl has been behaving unprofessionally. There's quite a few points which indicates unfair treatment by her.
I asked for a detailed summary of the reports put together in these interviews. She said she can not disclose these even though in the meeting she said she would.
I honestly do not think I bullied him. I did have to be quite firm in managing him. That said its not bullying.
I have the right to appeal within 5 days. I want to do this and ask for my job back.
I do think I've been shafted. What can I do. Is there anywhere I can go to get help. Not sure I can afford a lawyer.
Edited by Lostprophet on Monday 2nd April 10:58
For future reference though, confronting the person who you were accused of bullying in front of other staff is never a good idea.
Countdown said:
Maybe I'm misinterpreting the situation here but it seems really strange that they're sticking up for the Contractor rather than yourself. Surely you didn't "need" to bully him, you could have just dimissed him, couldn't you? After all, you're a permie and he's a contractor? No disrespect to Contractors intended btw....
As others have implied I think the Contractor issue is a bit of a smokescreen.
+1As others have implied I think the Contractor issue is a bit of a smokescreen.
I'm a contractor and on a weeks notice and they dont need to give a reason to let me go.
I’m hearing a lot of blame and anger coming from your posts. This may be due to the situation being fresh.
One thing I will say is that if you had left a meeting with me about bullying and then confronted the person in question, you would be immediately removed from premises by security. The fact you don’t see this as an issue, and you calling the professional in HR “the girl” and suggesting they were useless all leads me to belive you are not suited to management.
Finally, I have never relied on HR to do anything more than facilitate hiring. Ask yourself, how would it be possible for someone in HR to find your ideal candidate? It isn’t. They can only filter C.Vs. They aren’t experts in your role, you are.
One thing I will say is that if you had left a meeting with me about bullying and then confronted the person in question, you would be immediately removed from premises by security. The fact you don’t see this as an issue, and you calling the professional in HR “the girl” and suggesting they were useless all leads me to belive you are not suited to management.
Finally, I have never relied on HR to do anything more than facilitate hiring. Ask yourself, how would it be possible for someone in HR to find your ideal candidate? It isn’t. They can only filter C.Vs. They aren’t experts in your role, you are.
daemon said:
For future reference though, confronting the person who you were accused of bullying in front of other staff is never a good idea.
...and is itself, a form of bullying.What constitutes bullying is not subjective but other than the obvious, the details are not always widely known.
OP, the fact that you have done this suggests to me that you perhaps do not know the full gamut of what constitutes bullying. Ignorance is not defence as being a manager, it is your responsibility to be aware and act accordingly.
Your post suggests this a largish company with proper processes in place and so it is highly unlikely that they want you out just because your face doesn't fit. Any company that forces the exit of someone on trumped up or made up charges risks very damaging consequences administered by any number of no-win-no-fee lawyers.
I would suggest you take a very critical and considered look at what they've claimed you've done. Be honest and make peace with yourself that you've screwed up. Learn. Adjust and move on.
If you really do believe that there is no charge to answer, then its still likely that you best move is to leave but you need to do all you can in your power to have any record of bullying expunged from history as this will be a blight on your future prospects.
StevieBee said:
Your post suggests this a largish company with proper processes in place and so it is highly unlikely that they want you out just because your face doesn't fit. Any company that forces the exit of someone on trumped up or made up charges risks very damaging consequences administered by any number of no-win-no-fee lawyers...
...If you really do believe that there is no charge to answer, then its still likely that you best move is to leave but you need to do all you can in your power to have any record of bullying expunged from history as this will be a blight on your future prospects.
Unless the OP was dismissed due to a protected characteristic or in breach of contract, there is no basis for lawyers or arguments. The employer could fire you for pretty much whatever reason and give you your marching orders....If you really do believe that there is no charge to answer, then its still likely that you best move is to leave but you need to do all you can in your power to have any record of bullying expunged from history as this will be a blight on your future prospects.
Also, if it is a well organised, large company, it's fairly likely any references given will be standardised, pro-former affairs with little more than confirmation of job title and dates employed.
OP- it sounds like you have generated some bad press within your team and with your hire, and this was noticed by some senior people. Maybe you've been harshly treated, maybe you haven't, it's impossible to tell with what we have here.
You should move on and accept your fate here though, as you aren't going to change their minds.
StevieBee said:
daemon said:
For future reference though, confronting the person who you were accused of bullying in front of other staff is never a good idea.
...and is itself, a form of bullying.What constitutes bullying is not subjective but other than the obvious, the details are not always widely known.
I did once use a Data Protection Act Subject Access Request to force a copy of my HR file out of a company that didn't want to give it to me. Might be worth a try if you're feeling vindictive?
But to the OP - if it's gone this badly wrong in a few months, it's really not the job for you. Chalk it up to experience and move on.
But to the OP - if it's gone this badly wrong in a few months, it's really not the job for you. Chalk it up to experience and move on.
janesmith1950 said:
StevieBee said:
Your post suggests this a largish company with proper processes in place and so it is highly unlikely that they want you out just because your face doesn't fit. Any company that forces the exit of someone on trumped up or made up charges risks very damaging consequences administered by any number of no-win-no-fee lawyers...
...If you really do believe that there is no charge to answer, then its still likely that you best move is to leave but you need to do all you can in your power to have any record of bullying expunged from history as this will be a blight on your future prospects.
Unless the OP was dismissed due to a protected characteristic or in breach of contract, there is no basis for lawyers or arguments. The employer could fire you for pretty much whatever reason and give you your marching orders. ...If you really do believe that there is no charge to answer, then its still likely that you best move is to leave but you need to do all you can in your power to have any record of bullying expunged from history as this will be a blight on your future prospects.
Lostprophet said:
The HR girl alleged I bullied the contractor.
I went into a team meeting to tell my staff what happened. I asked the contractor quite clearly if I bullied him. He didn't come up with anything. My other staff also didn't think I bullied him.
If this is your management style the HR girl was spot on.I went into a team meeting to tell my staff what happened. I asked the contractor quite clearly if I bullied him. He didn't come up with anything. My other staff also didn't think I bullied him.
QuartzDad said:
Lostprophet said:
Hi All,
Half way through my 6 months probation period a key staff member resigned. I replaced him with a contractor in Jan. He is unable to do the role which led to all sorts of issues; basically he's not capable of doing the role.
[...]
1. Not being able to form a relationship with a key director.
[...]
What can I do.
Move on. This will go precisely nowhere. It's not nice and I totally understand the desire to stay but it isn't happening.Half way through my 6 months probation period a key staff member resigned. I replaced him with a contractor in Jan. He is unable to do the role which led to all sorts of issues; basically he's not capable of doing the role.
[...]
1. Not being able to form a relationship with a key director.
[...]
What can I do.
ETA having read the rest of the replies, there is some good constructive info in there worth taking on-board.
Edited by parabolica on Monday 2nd April 15:38
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