Classic Mustang Experts (64 to 69) : Need Help
Discussion
Hello all!
I am doing homework to bring a Mustang in from the US. I've done my numbers and I know how much I can afford (I need to be able to buy the car with about $16,000 at today's exchange rates). I need some help with this homework:
Mainly, I don't intend to keep my Mustang for years and years. I'll likely enjoy it for a couple of years and sell it. So resale value in the UK is important. So my question is what kind of classic Mustangs are most sought-after in the UK?
I am looking at: 64-69 Mustangs with at least a 289 engine (not looking at anything 6 cylinder). Ideally a fastback or convertible, but I'll settle for a notchback if it's in good shape! Not fussed about Pony trim etc. I just need the car to be fairly stock and in good shape. I'm also partial to red and blue ones.
If you have had any experience of importing, keeping and then selling on a classic Stang as a personal import, I would love to get any pointers or guidance on going through with the whole thing.
I am doing homework to bring a Mustang in from the US. I've done my numbers and I know how much I can afford (I need to be able to buy the car with about $16,000 at today's exchange rates). I need some help with this homework:
Mainly, I don't intend to keep my Mustang for years and years. I'll likely enjoy it for a couple of years and sell it. So resale value in the UK is important. So my question is what kind of classic Mustangs are most sought-after in the UK?
I am looking at: 64-69 Mustangs with at least a 289 engine (not looking at anything 6 cylinder). Ideally a fastback or convertible, but I'll settle for a notchback if it's in good shape! Not fussed about Pony trim etc. I just need the car to be fairly stock and in good shape. I'm also partial to red and blue ones.
If you have had any experience of importing, keeping and then selling on a classic Stang as a personal import, I would love to get any pointers or guidance on going through with the whole thing.
I own a 1967 Mustang Fastback that was imported in 2013 and then restored on my behalf by a UK-based specialist. Hence I was in a similar position to you a few years ago and know a little bit about the market (although I wouldn't consider myself an expert!).
The first thing to consider is the four sub-divisions of what are generally termed the "classic" era Mustangs: 1964-66, 1967-68, 1969-70 and 1971-73. Arguably, the most sought-after (and hence expensive) of these generations are the 1967-68 cars, although to the untrained eye they are very similar in appearance to the original (slightly cheaper) 1964-66 models. The really stratospheric prices are generally applied to the Shelby models and some of the later Boss Mustangs. Almost all of these classic Mustangs came in three body styles: coupe, convertible and fastback. As a general rule, it is the fastback which is the most sought after and hence most valuable in each generation, closely followed by the convertible. The coupes are always the most affordable of the early Mustangs.
With all this in mind, I'm afraid your budget is unlikely to stretch to a fastback or convertible of any year, unless you are considering a "project" car for restoration. It will probably buy a decent running coupe, but even this is unlikely to be in top condition. Of course you will have to add on the cost of shipping from the US, import duties, etc., but I'm sure you're aware of that. Fortunately, from May this year, pre-1976 cars are exempt from MoT tests, but you will undoubtedly still want to have the car professionally checked over once in the UK.
As far as resale in the UK, the first generation of Mustangs remain universally popular, even among those who aren't otherwise into American cars, so from that point of view they make a better choice than most US muscle cars of that period which are far more a niche interest in this country. Same rules apply when selling though: fastbacks and convertibles are generally the models that are most popular and hence sell more easily and command the higher prices.
Once you have the car in the UK, running and maintaining it should be a doddle, with a good support network in the owners club, several UK-based specialists for technical work, and virtually every spare part you could wish for easily available and reasonably priced on the interweb.
Good luck with your search!
The first thing to consider is the four sub-divisions of what are generally termed the "classic" era Mustangs: 1964-66, 1967-68, 1969-70 and 1971-73. Arguably, the most sought-after (and hence expensive) of these generations are the 1967-68 cars, although to the untrained eye they are very similar in appearance to the original (slightly cheaper) 1964-66 models. The really stratospheric prices are generally applied to the Shelby models and some of the later Boss Mustangs. Almost all of these classic Mustangs came in three body styles: coupe, convertible and fastback. As a general rule, it is the fastback which is the most sought after and hence most valuable in each generation, closely followed by the convertible. The coupes are always the most affordable of the early Mustangs.
With all this in mind, I'm afraid your budget is unlikely to stretch to a fastback or convertible of any year, unless you are considering a "project" car for restoration. It will probably buy a decent running coupe, but even this is unlikely to be in top condition. Of course you will have to add on the cost of shipping from the US, import duties, etc., but I'm sure you're aware of that. Fortunately, from May this year, pre-1976 cars are exempt from MoT tests, but you will undoubtedly still want to have the car professionally checked over once in the UK.
As far as resale in the UK, the first generation of Mustangs remain universally popular, even among those who aren't otherwise into American cars, so from that point of view they make a better choice than most US muscle cars of that period which are far more a niche interest in this country. Same rules apply when selling though: fastbacks and convertibles are generally the models that are most popular and hence sell more easily and command the higher prices.
Once you have the car in the UK, running and maintaining it should be a doddle, with a good support network in the owners club, several UK-based specialists for technical work, and virtually every spare part you could wish for easily available and reasonably priced on the interweb.
Good luck with your search!
Black C5 - thanks very much for all that info - helps a lot. Yes, the shipping and duties and stuff are the things I have been doing homework on as part of the finances. I didn't really think about the coupe/fastback difference, that was a lesson for me. And on my searches, it does look like fastbacks are rarer than the coupes.
I also didn't know that MOTs are going to be scrapped for pre-1976 cars (woohoo!). I intend to pay for a technical inspection of any car I intend to purchase before handing any money over.
Thanks again for your help. I would gladly settle for a coupe. As long as I'm confident I can get my money back, I'm not terribly fussed. Basd on my journeys across the internet and across car shows, it looks coupes are also "fairly" popular. I guess if you're on a budget, you'll settle for what you can get :-).
I also didn't know that MOTs are going to be scrapped for pre-1976 cars (woohoo!). I intend to pay for a technical inspection of any car I intend to purchase before handing any money over.
Thanks again for your help. I would gladly settle for a coupe. As long as I'm confident I can get my money back, I'm not terribly fussed. Basd on my journeys across the internet and across car shows, it looks coupes are also "fairly" popular. I guess if you're on a budget, you'll settle for what you can get :-).
If resale is important I wouldn't bother with a coupe (and I own one). The Mustang market is a bit weird and resale on coupes isn't good. Mustangs tend to be people's first classics or first yanks. They go and see a few at a dealer, fall in love and pay top dollar. However, if you look on any sales site the cars being sold privately aren't moving at anything like the same money (despite often being better cars as there's no MOT equivalent in the States so most new imports need work). '67/'68 Fastbacks are more aspirational and therefore people are more willing to pay top prices, so despite being a similar car operate in a completely different market.
From a resale point of view you'd be better off buying a dog of a '67/'68 Fastback and just tooling around in it until the time comes. It will be a dog at $16k but maybe you'll chance on something with ruined interior/paint/panel rust that could be used? From an investment point a view even a non-driver would be OK.
Black-CS is correct in his four splits in age groups but I'd say the '67/'68 is only more desirable than '65/'66 in Fastback (where it makes a big difference), in convertible and coupe there is no discernible difference between '64-'66 and '67/'68. '69/'70 Fastbacks are now desirable and probably out of budget for something decent, and there seems to be negligible interest in coupes from these years. '71/'73 is where the bargains are at the moment and interest is definitely growing...but whether it will have grown enough to repay your investment without waiting "years and years" is guesswork. Also you say you want '64-'69 so maybe they just aren't your thing?
Mustang prices have risen quite quickly in the States over the last couple of years and in my opinion the UK is lagging behind at the moment. This is probably due to saturation of the UK market, especially for coupes as these are the most common imports.
I would think very carefully about what you want to do with the car and price up UK and US available cars. I believe you stand a good chance of getting a better deal sourcing in the UK if you're looking at coupes, although the choice is obviously more limited.
All of the above is obviously just my opinion.
From a resale point of view you'd be better off buying a dog of a '67/'68 Fastback and just tooling around in it until the time comes. It will be a dog at $16k but maybe you'll chance on something with ruined interior/paint/panel rust that could be used? From an investment point a view even a non-driver would be OK.
Black-CS is correct in his four splits in age groups but I'd say the '67/'68 is only more desirable than '65/'66 in Fastback (where it makes a big difference), in convertible and coupe there is no discernible difference between '64-'66 and '67/'68. '69/'70 Fastbacks are now desirable and probably out of budget for something decent, and there seems to be negligible interest in coupes from these years. '71/'73 is where the bargains are at the moment and interest is definitely growing...but whether it will have grown enough to repay your investment without waiting "years and years" is guesswork. Also you say you want '64-'69 so maybe they just aren't your thing?
Mustang prices have risen quite quickly in the States over the last couple of years and in my opinion the UK is lagging behind at the moment. This is probably due to saturation of the UK market, especially for coupes as these are the most common imports.
I would think very carefully about what you want to do with the car and price up UK and US available cars. I believe you stand a good chance of getting a better deal sourcing in the UK if you're looking at coupes, although the choice is obviously more limited.
All of the above is obviously just my opinion.
I think your budget will be your primary limiting factor. Is that $16,000 landed in the UK?
At that price, your biggest enemy is rust. But you may get lucky and find something others have missed. Better to find a solid body and chassis over good running gear any day. However, at your budget, you may find the need to invest funds in your purchase over and above what you paid. Is that an option for you, or do you want a running and driving example?
A good guy to talk to in the UK is Peter from Classic American Car Sales in Essex. He's an American living in the UK who specialises in classic Mustangs and spends a lot of time importing them for resale. He may be able to provide you with a few options in the US to save you looking too heavily.
A '73 convertible is within reach - just - but that's not what you're after and finding a good one is increasingly difficult.
At that price, your biggest enemy is rust. But you may get lucky and find something others have missed. Better to find a solid body and chassis over good running gear any day. However, at your budget, you may find the need to invest funds in your purchase over and above what you paid. Is that an option for you, or do you want a running and driving example?
A good guy to talk to in the UK is Peter from Classic American Car Sales in Essex. He's an American living in the UK who specialises in classic Mustangs and spends a lot of time importing them for resale. He may be able to provide you with a few options in the US to save you looking too heavily.
A '73 convertible is within reach - just - but that's not what you're after and finding a good one is increasingly difficult.
Edited by Bellini on Wednesday 4th April 16:35
67/68 Coupes have a niche following in the USA, because it was the Coupe version used by the all the race teams in the Trans-Am road racing series for the 67 and 68 season, not the fastback. As such they are now a popular choice in the USA for the Historic Trans-Am series over there. A quick Google will show you just how popular!
But, a 'race' style modded Trans-Am look coupe probably wouldn't attract many buyers in the UK, unless they actually have an interest in the vintage Trans-Am period.
As others have said, you are going to have major issues with your budget, or rather lack of it, if you are only looking at a short term buy and then moving on later.
But, a 'race' style modded Trans-Am look coupe probably wouldn't attract many buyers in the UK, unless they actually have an interest in the vintage Trans-Am period.
As others have said, you are going to have major issues with your budget, or rather lack of it, if you are only looking at a short term buy and then moving on later.
I bought my '66 from Germany and imported it (when the exchange rate was €1.41 to the £). Import process from the EU was easy. Germany had/has loads of well priced mustangs, and if they are road-legal they tend to work well (the German road regulations are quite strict, even on 'old timers' as they call them). As they are classic, you dont need an IVA/SVA, mine needed an MOT (which I presume wont be required after May) and sending off the ownership paperwork.
I got mine from https://www.us-car-one.com/ in Aachen - I wasn't even planning to buy, but decided to visit as they had over 20 mustangs in stock and I wanted to get a feel for the market. He started mine up and that was it... sold... pricing there is interesting - 67-68 are worth the most, the Germans aren't interested in the styling of the early cars. modified and standard / restored cars also seem to priced similarly. I still visit them each year on my roadtrips as I love to see the cars they have in stock. Not as attractive to buy from there now with the exchange rate though.
As everyone has mentioned, they are cheap to run - just buy a car with little or no rust - the mechanical side is pretty simple and parts are easy to get.
Mine is modified, but even on a 'standard' car, I'd recommend front disc brake conversions and MSD / electronic ignition if you want to drive it fairly regularly and want to be able to go and stop
Another vote for Peter, he's fairly local to me and been most helpful.
I got mine from https://www.us-car-one.com/ in Aachen - I wasn't even planning to buy, but decided to visit as they had over 20 mustangs in stock and I wanted to get a feel for the market. He started mine up and that was it... sold... pricing there is interesting - 67-68 are worth the most, the Germans aren't interested in the styling of the early cars. modified and standard / restored cars also seem to priced similarly. I still visit them each year on my roadtrips as I love to see the cars they have in stock. Not as attractive to buy from there now with the exchange rate though.
As everyone has mentioned, they are cheap to run - just buy a car with little or no rust - the mechanical side is pretty simple and parts are easy to get.
Mine is modified, but even on a 'standard' car, I'd recommend front disc brake conversions and MSD / electronic ignition if you want to drive it fairly regularly and want to be able to go and stop
Another vote for Peter, he's fairly local to me and been most helpful.
Another thing to watch for are converted 6 cylinder cars, which are quite common. There's nothing wrong with them if done properly but they aren't worth the same as an original V8 car - which might actually help with your budget? You do need to be quite careful that the conversion is done properly though, particularly on the early cars where there were more differences - engine, gearbox, front suspension, steering, rear axle, etc. etc. I would guess a converted car would be worth half way between a 6 cylinder and an original V8. Chassis decoders are on many websites so it's easy to check (but don't use the plate on the door as that can be different).
It is worth talking to Peter in Essex as he can show you what to look for (especially the cowl area where you need to be particularly careful) and has plenty of experience that will help you. His partner Ron also handles shipping should you need someone to handle that for you. It's pretty safe to say that there's nothing in your budget there though.
It is worth talking to Peter in Essex as he can show you what to look for (especially the cowl area where you need to be particularly careful) and has plenty of experience that will help you. His partner Ron also handles shipping should you need someone to handle that for you. It's pretty safe to say that there's nothing in your budget there though.
I'm not claiming to be a Mustang expert - though I do own a 64 Coupe and a 68 Coupe and know something about buying them. Both were already registered and being used in the UK and for what it's worth (if you pardon the pun) I would not consider importing on your budget. My firm advice is to go for a car that has passed an MOT in the previous year and buy privately from a genuine enthusiast - NOT a dealer. There are plenty of privately owned 64-68 Coupes available within your budget but asking prices are rising, the Mustang market being inflated by certain dealers who have reacted to the low exchange rate against the dollar by charging a lot more for imported cars.
Sorry for hijacking the thread (but as there are Mustang / Ford experts looking in) I have a 289 engine in my TVR Tuscan V8 LWB.
The block is marked.
4L25
C5AE 6015E
Can anyone provide a date. Is it 25th November 1964?
Thank you
Rob Pennington
The block is marked.
4L25
C5AE 6015E
Can anyone provide a date. Is it 25th November 1964?
Thank you
Rob Pennington
Edited by RobMk2a on Friday 6th April 12:05
RobMk2a said:
Sorry for hijacking the thread (but as there are Mustang / Ford experts looking in) I have a 298 engine in my TVR Tuscan V8 LWB.
The block is marked.
4L25
C5AE 6015E
Can anyone provide a date. Is it 25th November 1964?
Thank you
Rob Pennington
Based on a zillion articles out there, that sounds about right :-). It's a common mistake to think that the C5 indicates "1965". The block is marked.
4L25
C5AE 6015E
Can anyone provide a date. Is it 25th November 1964?
Thank you
Rob Pennington
I found this article as a reference: http://www.fastbackstack.com/2007/06/how-to-decode...
RobMk2a said:
Sorry for hijacking the thread (but as there are Mustang / Ford experts looking in) I have a 298 engine in my TVR Tuscan V8 LWB.
The block is marked.
4L25
C5AE 6015E
Can anyone provide a date. Is it 25th November 1964?
Correct, a 1965 model year 289, cast on 25th Nov '64.The block is marked.
4L25
C5AE 6015E
Can anyone provide a date. Is it 25th November 1964?
likaleica said:
I'm not claiming to be a Mustang expert - though I do own a 64 Coupe and a 68 Coupe and know something about buying them. Both were already registered and being used in the UK and for what it's worth (if you pardon the pun) I would not consider importing on your budget. My firm advice is to go for a car that has passed an MOT in the previous year and buy privately from a genuine enthusiast - NOT a dealer. There are plenty of privately owned 64-68 Coupes available within your budget but asking prices are rising, the Mustang market being inflated by certain dealers who have reacted to the low exchange rate against the dollar by charging a lot more for imported cars.
Thanks for that insight. And also the bit about buying from an enthusiast, another point to add to my list of learnings POORCARDEALER said:
My experience is it would be better to buy a coupe thats already here....they are hard work to sell and spend ages in the classifieds, you should be able to bag a bargain if you are patient.
This does seem to be the common strand in almost every comment based on my budget. If I did buy something locally, what do you think the chances are of getting my money back in a couple of years if I keep in decent shape? I mean, do these coupes hold their value reasonably well in the UK? Bellini said:
I think your budget will be your primary limiting factor. Is that $16,000 landed in the UK?
Yep, that was what I was aiming for!Bellini said:
At that price, your biggest enemy is rust. But you may get lucky and find something others have missed. Better to find a solid body and chassis over good running gear any day. However, at your budget, you may find the need to invest funds in your purchase over and above what you paid. Is that an option for you, or do you want a running and driving example?
I wanted something "running and driving", not necessarily a showcar but at least something that polishes up nicely and gives me some level of pride of ownership. I can afford some level of maintenance as long as it doesn't involve sudden death and spending thousands of pounds reviving it back to life. I didn't realise that the solid body is more important that the running gear, I guess it's because of the ease of maintenance and availability of parts - you can't rip out and replace a chassis as easily as a fuel pump!Bellini said:
A good guy to talk to in the UK is Peter from Classic American Car Sales in Essex. He's an American living in the UK who specialises in classic Mustangs and spends a lot of time importing them for resale. He may be able to provide you with a few options in the US to save you looking too heavily.
Excellent recommendation, thank you!Bellini said:
A '73 convertible is within reach - just - but that's not what you're after and finding a good one is increasingly difficult.
I find them hideous, not my thing at all 
Edited by Bellini on Wednesday 4th April 16:35
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