In Defence of Flippers?
Discussion
A great many people on this forum complain, sometimes with great passion, about the Flippers who make a large profit out of their recent purchases of a GT3s
It has been pointed out that there are genuine reasons for a percentage of these, £30,000 plus is a pretty genuine reason for anyone.
As well as these planned Flippers there are of course the change of circumstance Flippers who are forced through vagaries of life to move their cars on.
Why then is this post "In defence of Flippers"? Because if you are like me it is the only way we can obtain a car we really want. You may not approve of this as you yourself are unable to obtain one at list because your track record with the dealer does not meet the criteria for a build slot. What the flipper has done is bar himself from future cars and make it easier for the true enthusiast to get on the list.
As for those "true enthusiasts" dead men's shoes are the only way you are going to get their allocation, as some not all, will simply have inflation proof motoring whilst maintaining their relationship with the dealer and the next new car.
So to reiterate, the Flippers do it once and give others a possible chance later, true enthusiasts will never give you a slot.
It has been pointed out that there are genuine reasons for a percentage of these, £30,000 plus is a pretty genuine reason for anyone.
As well as these planned Flippers there are of course the change of circumstance Flippers who are forced through vagaries of life to move their cars on.
Why then is this post "In defence of Flippers"? Because if you are like me it is the only way we can obtain a car we really want. You may not approve of this as you yourself are unable to obtain one at list because your track record with the dealer does not meet the criteria for a build slot. What the flipper has done is bar himself from future cars and make it easier for the true enthusiast to get on the list.
As for those "true enthusiasts" dead men's shoes are the only way you are going to get their allocation, as some not all, will simply have inflation proof motoring whilst maintaining their relationship with the dealer and the next new car.
So to reiterate, the Flippers do it once and give others a possible chance later, true enthusiasts will never give you a slot.
This is true....if it is an isolated incident.
But the end-result of there being so many flippers out there (and so much frenzy for GT cars, another topic!) is that enthusiast can either:
a. Not get the cars they want any more; or if they're lucky:
b. Can afford the inflated prices the flippers demand.
Either way, it's not too good for enthusiasts, is it?
But the end-result of there being so many flippers out there (and so much frenzy for GT cars, another topic!) is that enthusiast can either:
a. Not get the cars they want any more; or if they're lucky:
b. Can afford the inflated prices the flippers demand.
Either way, it's not too good for enthusiasts, is it?
tiga85 said:
What the flipper has done is bar himself from future cars and make it easier for the true enthusiast to get on the list.
In a few cases maybe, but there’s no way the majority of dealers would black list someone who is a serial buyer of multiple mainstream models year after year. They’re simply too important to risk losing.I really don’t see Porsche themselves getting involved either. They’ve had plenty of opportunities to do so in the past and haven’t.
AndrewD said:
browngt3 said:
Yes with the greatest respect let's see some more driving reviews of the new GT3 please. Spring is just round the corner afterall
Planning to do a video review of R vs 4.0 RS vs manual GT3 with a friend soon. Sorry Cmoose, just bumped this one to the top again
What I don't understand is if someone has x% over the asking price to pay for a "second hand" car, why can't they offer it to the dealer on a new?
What would you do if you won the lottery? Would you have to rely on a flipper to get you the car you want as the dealer won't touch you without history?
What would you do if you won the lottery? Would you have to rely on a flipper to get you the car you want as the dealer won't touch you without history?
Type R Tom said:
What I don't understand is if someone has x% over the asking price to pay for a "second hand" car, why can't they offer it to the dealer on a new?
What would you do if you won the lottery? Would you have to rely on a flipper to get you the car you want as the dealer won't touch you without history?
Because the manufacturer has strict rules for the dealer on what can be charged for a new car. As such the dealer has no direct incentive to sell the car to 'lottery winner person' and can't take advantage of the extra price they could get if allowed. So they get creative to ensure they benefit in some way (agree to sell the car back to us, buy x number of new standard cars from us to qualify, etc). What would you do if you won the lottery? Would you have to rely on a flipper to get you the car you want as the dealer won't touch you without history?
Flippers only exist because the 'overall' cost of getting a car through the official network makes paying the flip price seem reasonable value.
Edited by C4ME on Thursday 5th April 12:18
I posted on here and for those interested it was only my second post in nearly four years.
I do not trawl through hundreds of pages to see all that has gone before, however I respect the view of AndrewD who with six and half thousand posts will no doubt have seen it all before.
My post was almost a thank you to a gentleman who allowed me to obtain a new GT3 outside of the dealer network where I had no chance of obtaining one.
I have owned four Porsche cars in the past but have had a McLaren and a Ferrari recently. Two of my Porsche cars netted me £42000 profit on sales. One a 996 Turbo S that I did 20,000 miles in without any intention of selling at a profit, I had lost money as per normal on my 996 4S and simply wanted the Turbo S.
The market went silly and years later I sold it to help towards the purchase of a McLaren. 10,000 miles later I sold that and bought a Ferrari 458 spider.
I did not like the Ferrari and as I am in my late sixties I decided to get the car I really wanted, spurred on by recent Big C diagnosis.
The gentleman who Flipped the car was prevented from driving it through failing eyesight but kept his order and made a profit. I made money on my Porsche and so it was not too hard for me to forget the premium I was paying.
So both he and I achieved a positive result and he will not be on the list for the next new GT3, allowing another Porsche owner to have the chance of owning one of the best cars in the world.
I have now completed nearly 1000 miles in two weeks and will be pleased to give my impressions of it if you think that would be more valuable than this topic.
I do not trawl through hundreds of pages to see all that has gone before, however I respect the view of AndrewD who with six and half thousand posts will no doubt have seen it all before.
My post was almost a thank you to a gentleman who allowed me to obtain a new GT3 outside of the dealer network where I had no chance of obtaining one.
I have owned four Porsche cars in the past but have had a McLaren and a Ferrari recently. Two of my Porsche cars netted me £42000 profit on sales. One a 996 Turbo S that I did 20,000 miles in without any intention of selling at a profit, I had lost money as per normal on my 996 4S and simply wanted the Turbo S.
The market went silly and years later I sold it to help towards the purchase of a McLaren. 10,000 miles later I sold that and bought a Ferrari 458 spider.
I did not like the Ferrari and as I am in my late sixties I decided to get the car I really wanted, spurred on by recent Big C diagnosis.
The gentleman who Flipped the car was prevented from driving it through failing eyesight but kept his order and made a profit. I made money on my Porsche and so it was not too hard for me to forget the premium I was paying.
So both he and I achieved a positive result and he will not be on the list for the next new GT3, allowing another Porsche owner to have the chance of owning one of the best cars in the world.
I have now completed nearly 1000 miles in two weeks and will be pleased to give my impressions of it if you think that would be more valuable than this topic.
Very well balanced and constructive argument. I personally would love to read your review of the 991.2 GT3. I think I know who sold you the car (aberdeen direction) and in no way would I class him as a flipper. Seems like a win win situation for both parties.
I have a 991.1 GT3 having recently dabbled with McLaren 650s. Absolutely love the GT3 to drive and I’m very tempted to pay the overs for a 991.2 GT3 as chances of getting on the list for 992 GT3 is a bit or a gamble.
Neil
I have a 991.1 GT3 having recently dabbled with McLaren 650s. Absolutely love the GT3 to drive and I’m very tempted to pay the overs for a 991.2 GT3 as chances of getting on the list for 992 GT3 is a bit or a gamble.
Neil
Puckrup- what did you think of Mac 650s? I have both 991.2 manual GT3 and 650s.......which would eat the former alive. GT3 great car.....but IMHO Mac is much better. Different world quality, presence and performance. Wonder if the whole GT3 hype / desperation to acquire is this months ‘unobtainium’ ?
Same with certain watches - not better but perception of appreciating asset / depreciation free is the driving force?
Just my ten cents...
Same with certain watches - not better but perception of appreciating asset / depreciation free is the driving force?
Just my ten cents...
Dhol01 said:
Puckrup- what did you think of Mac 650s? I have both 991.2 manual GT3 and 650s.......which would eat the former alive. GT3 great car.....but IMHO Mac is much better. Different world quality, presence and performance. Wonder if the whole GT3 hype / desperation to acquire is this months ‘unobtainium’ ?
Same with certain watches - not better but perception of appreciating asset / depreciation free is the driving force?
Just my ten cents...
650S is dull once you have got over the drag racing, it does every thing for you. I test drove a few Macca'a and they feel like faster Golfs to me lolSame with certain watches - not better but perception of appreciating asset / depreciation free is the driving force?
Just my ten cents...
"quality" well most people I know who have them spend a lot of time at the dealers !
you say a 650S would eat the new GT3 but it laps slower ! and feels very dated vs the 720S now.
take the GT3 to a track you might be shocked, if you don't track then yes you maybe bought the wrong car in the GT3 and have got caught up In the hype around GT3's
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