Advice Please: Risk of being made redundant after Project?

[JLammy]

Hi all,

I am currently a PM on a highly critical project for a fairly big company, and as a result of the review round at the end of 2017, I was very disappointed with the salary increase, despite getting a very low pay compared to other PMs in the company. Because of this, I have applied for jobs outside of the company, and have secured a new position with a 40% salary increase.

There's a very big chance the current company would match the offer, but I believe it's because it's easier than finding another PM with the transition period etc. Problem is, this project is scheduled to finish in the next 6 months, and I'm concerned that I could essentially be let go after the project is done?

Which then puts me back to square 1 with finding a job again.

Pros of staying:
- Enjoy working with the current team
- Would have expected better job stability, as I've been here for 4 years now.
- Might be wanting to change property later this year, so easier for mortgage purposes

Cons of staying:
- Risk that I'll essentially be let go after the project ends (feedback I had from someone senior in the company)

Pros of new company:
- Permanent position with 3 months probation period
- Better benefits

Cons of new company:
- Might be wanting to change property later this year, so could be difficult for mortgage purposes


TLDR: Could the current company easily just let me go after the project is done, despite being a permanent employee?

Edited by JLammy on Friday 6th April 11:51

[berlintaxi]

JLammy said:

Could the company easily just let me go after the project is done, despite being a permanent employee?

You won't have been with them for 2 years so very easy to get rid of you.

[JLammy]

berlintaxi said:

You won't have been with them for 2 years so very easy to get rid of you.

My last comment was more of a close off question, could the company I'm working for now easily get rid of me after the project?

[berlintaxi]

In theory, if the position becomes redundant.

[Mr Pointy]

Following the performance review & the disappointing raise in salary did you ask for a meeting with your manager to discuss why you are not being paid what you think you are worth? Maybe they have a different view of your performance & value to the company. If you just sit & accept what they gave you then maybe you need to become more assertive.

If you move for 40% more then maybe moving house will be easier but you are more vulnerable for the first two years.

[JLammy]

berlintaxi said:

In theory, if the position becomes redundant.

So, there are many project managers in the company, which moves from one project to another, I'm guessing this won't change things with the risk of redundancy at the end of this project then...

Mr Pointy said:

Following the performance review & the disappointing raise in salary did you ask for a meeting with your manager to discuss why you are not being paid what you think you are worth? Maybe they have a different view of your performance & value to the company. If you just sit & accept what they gave you then maybe you need to become more assertive.

If you move for 40% more then maybe moving house will be easier but you are more vulnerable for the first two years.

Well, disappointing in my terms I guess. The % increase was on average higher than a lot of others, but as I joined this company as a grad, the small % increase over the past few years has still meant me getting a relatively small pay. Several senior manages has also helped try and push my case for a better pay increase to align better with a PM pay, but they haven't had much success.

[CzechItOut]

JLammy said:

My last comment was more of a close off question, could the company I'm working for now easily get rid of me after the project?

They have to make the position redundant, so assuming you can't be moved to a PM role on another project, then yes.

What they can't do is make you redundant and the next day start advertising for similar PM roles to what you were doing.

Given you have been there for four years you will be eligible for redundancy pay although the statutory amount isn't much.

What makes you think you'll be made redundant at the end of your project? Is this something the company have done in the past?

[JLammy]

CzechItOut said:

They have to make the position redundant, so assuming you can't be moved to a PM role on another project, then yes.

What they can't do is make you redundant and the next day start advertising for similar PM roles to what you were doing.

Given you have been there for four years you will be eligible for redundancy pay although the statutory amount isn't much.

What makes you think you'll be made redundant at the end of your project? Is this something the company have done in the past?

The company has just been through a big round of redundancies and one of the senior managers mistakenly told me that the their argument point for the company to match my pay is that this project is only going to take 6 more months.

[anonymous-user]

In my experience (35 years in IT until I retired at 56 last year) i always worked to the mantra of never regret doing something, only regret not doing it.

If you move you get a good pay rise, and while You'll be on probation your new employer hasn't recruited you to get rid at the first opportunity as it costs a fortune to recruit staff.

Plus you'll see a different company and get new experiences.

In my experience staying is always a mistake to live to regret. Even if they give you the money it's never the same and they will resent being put in that position. If you aren't worth the money in their eyes now you won't be afterwards either.

[seyre1972]

keirik said:

In my experience (35 years in IT until I retired at 56 last year) i always worked to the mantra of never regret doing something, only regret not doing it.

If you move you get a good pay rise, and while You'll be on probation your new employer hasn't recruited you to get rid at the first opportunity as it costs a fortune to recruit staff.

Plus you'll see a different company and get new experiences.

In my experience staying is always a mistake to live to regret. Even if they give you the money it's never the same and they will resent being put in that position. If you aren't worth the money in their eyes now you won't be afterwards either.

Very good advice - to which I would add - some employers are these days not bothering to match/imporeve with a counter offer as it has been shown that disafected employees - while they may stay for a while - will likley jump st sooner rather than later.

[boxst]

JLammy said:

Well, disappointing in my terms I guess. The % increase was on average higher than a lot of others, but as I joined this company as a grad, the small % increase over the past few years has still meant me getting a relatively small pay. Several senior manages has also helped try and push my case for a better pay increase to align better with a PM pay, but they haven't had much success.

Unfortunately in many instances the only way to get a big increase is to move companies. HR, especially if it is a large company, just don't let managers give a large percentage increase even if in real terms it isn't very much money and you are underpaid in comparison to others. Stupid, and I've fought it before as the cost to replace/re-train outweighs the increase but they wouldn't budge.

[Mr Pointy]

JLammy said:

Mr Pointy said:

Following the performance review & the disappointing raise in salary did you ask for a meeting with your manager to discuss why you are not being paid what you think you are worth? Maybe they have a different view of your performance & value to the company. If you just sit & accept what they gave you then maybe you need to become more assertive.

If you move for 40% more then maybe moving house will be easier but you are more vulnerable for the first two years.

Well, disappointing in my terms I guess. The % increase was on average higher than a lot of others, but as I joined this company as a grad, the small % increase over the past few years has still meant me getting a relatively small pay. Several senior manages has also helped try and push my case for a better pay increase to align better with a PM pay, but they haven't had much success.

Well if you stay it looks as if you'll have to accept being behind the curve even though you have managers who are trying to push your case. At least that tells you your prospects are limited & should help inform your decision.

In general you only get subtantial improvements in pay & conditions if you change companies, & that's exactly what you are looking at. The new company has offered you a considerable pay rise & better benefits. The trade off is 2 years of uncertainty but that's they way it goes. I'd suggest banking as much as possible into a rainy day fund & very seriously think about taking the new position. You need to look at your terms of notice to see how long you have to give as you may be there for three months anyway.

[Flumpo]

Take the new job and build up your experience. What’s your ultimate goal? If you want to earn the big money you have to work for yourself, build up all the experience you can and see how other people/companies do things.

It also sounds like you work for a large company, often these end up quashing initiative, personal development and job satisfaction. Get out and experience something else. Sounds like the money is better too.

[JLammy]

Thanks all for the advice.

It does seem like moving forwards with the new company is better in terms of expanding my experience and starting fresh. Now I just need to work off the next 4 weeks and complete a smooth handover of my responsibilities!

Thanks everyone!

[xjay1337]

Move companies.

[Stella Tortoise]

A job change doesn't need to have any impact on a mortgage application.

[anonymous-user]

boxst said:

JLammy said:

Well, disappointing in my terms I guess. The % increase was on average higher than a lot of others, but as I joined this company as a grad, the small % increase over the past few years has still meant me getting a relatively small pay. Several senior manages has also helped try and push my case for a better pay increase to align better with a PM pay, but they haven't had much success.

Unfortunately in many instances the only way to get a big increase is to move companies. HR, especially if it is a large company, just don't let managers give a large percentage increase even if in real terms it isn't very much money and you are underpaid in comparison to others. Stupid, and I've fought it before as the cost to replace/re-train outweighs the increase but they wouldn't budge.

The level of commercial stupidity and often borderline innumeracy in many HR departments is terrifying/depressing in equal measure. In these situations (ignoring possible redundancy) what usually happens is that the company has to hire a replacement on more money than they needed to pay the person who left, and loses the corporate knowledge with the additional bonus of it being to clear to others that to be promoted/paid your value you have to leave.

[xjay1337]

Stella Tortoise said:

A job change doesn't need to have any impact on a mortgage application.

No, but I've just gone through a mortgage with Sarnie off here - very helpful by the way.

A couple of providers had issues if you hadn't been in your job previously for a minimum time frame - in one case 12 months, irrespective of current employment!

[PSRG]

wsurfa said:

The level of commercial stupidity and often borderline innumeracy in many HR departments is terrifying/depressing in equal measure. In these situations (ignoring possible redundancy) what usually happens is that the company has to hire a replacement on more money than they needed to pay the person who left, and loses the corporate knowledge with the additional bonus of it being to clear to others that to be promoted/paid your value you have to leave.

But what it does mean is more activity for the HR department, justifying their existence. If turnover was lower they’d have less recruitment, inducting and training to do, and so the department could be smaller. That would never do

[Autopilot]

JLammy said:

Which then puts me back to square 1 with finding a job again.

Pros of staying:
- Enjoy working with the current team
- Would have expected better job stability, as I've been here for 4 years now.
- Might be wanting to change property later this year, so easier for mortgage purposes

Cons of staying:
- Risk that I'll essentially be let go after the project ends (feedback I had from someone senior in the company)

Pros of new company:
- Permanent position with 3 months probation period
- Better benefits

Cons of new company:
- Might be wanting to change property later this year, so could be difficult for mortgage purposes


TLDR: Could the current company easily just let me go after the project is done, despite being a permanent employee?

Edited by JLammy on Friday 6th April 11:51

This screams out 'Take the new job' to me

None of the Pro's of staying really stack up in my opinion. I'd be confident any member of the current team if offered a 40% increase elsewhere would give you a second thought! Not being horrible of course, but you need to separate work from personal and be selfish, this is about you and what it gives you. Money isn't the be-all and end-all, but to be offered a 40% increase elsewhere from a company that probably (hopefully) won't use you for 6 months then move you on sounds like an amazing opportunity!!

It's a done deal!! Good luck.