993 RS, which pads and discs??
Discussion
Hi fellas,
I've done 5 track days in my 993 RS, but only 3 were hard on the brakes. Anyway, my OE front discs (cross drilled obviously) have the usual cracks developing. They are stretching about half way towards the next hole, if you know what I mean.
I would like to know at what point you replace the discs. Is it now, or when the cracks are very close to the neighbouring hole?
Also, is it these cracks that are the "limiting factor" in longevity for these discs? Or do they tend to wear thin before this happens the cracks become an issue? How do you tell when discs are worn thin without measuring them?
I wonder if there is a grooved disc alternative for my car? One that doesn't cost a fortune? I noticed that the lads at Beford this weekend were testing Brembo floating discs on the fronts used with Pagid Yellow pads (which I use) and they were very pleased with them. Do you think I could put them on my car?
I take it that when you replace discs it is necessary to put new pads on as well? My Pagid yellows have a fair bit of life in them yet you see.
I've done 5 track days in my 993 RS, but only 3 were hard on the brakes. Anyway, my OE front discs (cross drilled obviously) have the usual cracks developing. They are stretching about half way towards the next hole, if you know what I mean.
I would like to know at what point you replace the discs. Is it now, or when the cracks are very close to the neighbouring hole?
Also, is it these cracks that are the "limiting factor" in longevity for these discs? Or do they tend to wear thin before this happens the cracks become an issue? How do you tell when discs are worn thin without measuring them?
I wonder if there is a grooved disc alternative for my car? One that doesn't cost a fortune? I noticed that the lads at Beford this weekend were testing Brembo floating discs on the fronts used with Pagid Yellow pads (which I use) and they were very pleased with them. Do you think I could put them on my car?
I take it that when you replace discs it is necessary to put new pads on as well? My Pagid yellows have a fair bit of life in them yet you see.
Well Doc , ur symptoms are pretty typical.......yellows are endurance pads and will first 'clean' ur discs up and then crack them .......cracks really shud NEVER join [ie hole to hole ] however i think 3 -5mm long is longest really advised , especially knowing what u use the car for .........Mels cup car looked frightening last year , he says he never seen a disc explode , and now hes changed them anyway ........ask CB properly , they arent for messing with .......BTW i did last year in the rsr on standard Porsche pads , cos they came with the car , never faded once , and just made a load more black dust as they went down a bit quickly ....................its all a bit of a tradeoff/ compromise !For longevity of the discs , when u get em , cooling down lap however simole that sounds will hellp more than u may ever imagine !
I wouldn't put even part worn pads on new discs, always replace together.
I always use standard discs/pads, with racing blue fluid...never had a problem. I would be inclined to keep the original drilled discs.
If you drill out the accumulated brake dust from the holes in between trackdays, this helps the cooling and prevents the cracking happening so quickly, extending disc life and leaving more money to spend on optimax.
I always use standard discs/pads, with racing blue fluid...never had a problem. I would be inclined to keep the original drilled discs.
If you drill out the accumulated brake dust from the holes in between trackdays, this helps the cooling and prevents the cracking happening so quickly, extending disc life and leaving more money to spend on optimax.
Johnny
This is normal I used to change my pads (pagid orange)
and disks every three track days when I had my 993RSCS.
I am using pagid black RS19 I think on my GT2 done One day at donington and two days at the ring and the disks are fine no cracks, JC has done 2 days at the ring in his GT2 using padgid orange and his disks are full of cracks.
Try the blacks latest carbon ceramic technology, 110% savage stopping power dont you agree Burzel?
This is normal I used to change my pads (pagid orange)
and disks every three track days when I had my 993RSCS.
I am using pagid black RS19 I think on my GT2 done One day at donington and two days at the ring and the disks are fine no cracks, JC has done 2 days at the ring in his GT2 using padgid orange and his disks are full of cracks.
Try the blacks latest carbon ceramic technology, 110% savage stopping power dont you agree Burzel?
Johnny
Why waste the Pagids. Changing the front pads on your RS is a 30 min max job once you have done it for the first time. Only word of caution is to make sure you break the new discs in by conditioning them with the Pagid pads. This involves a series of increasing speed braking manouveres that put a nice even spread of the pad material on the new disc surface. Failure to do this will link to uneven pad deposits and the dreaded brake juddering that so many drivers incorrectly attribute to warped discs. From recollection you find a nice quiet stretch of road and accelerate up to 50mph then brake like crazy to a stop. Do this 3 times. Then Drive for about half a mile to allow some cooling. Then repeat the exercise at 70mph, 90mph and if space allows 110mph. Make sure you let brakes cool a little between each increment in speed. That should ensure a nice even deposit all over the disc surface.
Steve
Why waste the Pagids. Changing the front pads on your RS is a 30 min max job once you have done it for the first time. Only word of caution is to make sure you break the new discs in by conditioning them with the Pagid pads. This involves a series of increasing speed braking manouveres that put a nice even spread of the pad material on the new disc surface. Failure to do this will link to uneven pad deposits and the dreaded brake juddering that so many drivers incorrectly attribute to warped discs. From recollection you find a nice quiet stretch of road and accelerate up to 50mph then brake like crazy to a stop. Do this 3 times. Then Drive for about half a mile to allow some cooling. Then repeat the exercise at 70mph, 90mph and if space allows 110mph. Make sure you let brakes cool a little between each increment in speed. That should ensure a nice even deposit all over the disc surface.
Steve
Thanks fellas,
Russell, I will consider using Pagid blacks. I am still thinking that grooved discs would last longer but I do see the sense in sticking with OE discs as Paul says if yo are being cautious. Mind you, the lads with the GT3 RSs at Bedford had great results using grooved discs on their cars, can't see as mine would be any different. They used Pagid Yellow DS 19....not black as I recall......or is this a mistake?
Stevewall.....I will give that some thought. Time to call a few people up.
Russell, I will consider using Pagid blacks. I am still thinking that grooved discs would last longer but I do see the sense in sticking with OE discs as Paul says if yo are being cautious. Mind you, the lads with the GT3 RSs at Bedford had great results using grooved discs on their cars, can't see as mine would be any different. They used Pagid Yellow DS 19....not black as I recall......or is this a mistake?
Stevewall.....I will give that some thought. Time to call a few people up.
Johnny,
Had pagid blue on the 964 RS and was keeping them for about 6-8 trackdays. I also flushed the brake fluid each year and replaced with proper competition fluid. Never had any brake fade, despite the fact that the 'RS had to be driven to the apex on the brakes, to kill understeer...
Had pagid blue on the 964 RS and was keeping them for about 6-8 trackdays. I also flushed the brake fluid each year and replaced with proper competition fluid. Never had any brake fade, despite the fact that the 'RS had to be driven to the apex on the brakes, to kill understeer...
PhilRS said:
Johnny,
Had pagid blue on the 964 RS and was keeping them for about 6-8 trackdays. I also flushed the brake fluid each year and replaced with proper competition fluid. Never had any brake fade, despite the fact that the 'RS had to be driven to the apex on the brakes, to kill understeer...
Hi Phil,
I had those pads on my old E30 M3, they are good. How long did your discs last though?
RS-19's are the yellows. Have a look at motorsportworld web site and further confuse yourself. Parr were recommending Pagid Blacks as well but then I found there are two grades - RS4-2-1 and RS14???? Must give them a call.....
I would NEVER fit new discs and old pads. Run your finger over your discs (Wait till they are cold or you will have to see yourself for some blister cream). You will feel a lip at the edge of the disc and an uneven surface towards the hub. Obviously, the lip at the top indicates how much your discs are worn. The pads will have the same uneven surface matching your discs.
If you are starting with nice new flat discs, it just doesn't seem right to stuff in your old worn pads.
I would NEVER fit new discs and old pads. Run your finger over your discs (Wait till they are cold or you will have to see yourself for some blister cream). You will feel a lip at the edge of the disc and an uneven surface towards the hub. Obviously, the lip at the top indicates how much your discs are worn. The pads will have the same uneven surface matching your discs.
If you are starting with nice new flat discs, it just doesn't seem right to stuff in your old worn pads.
Thanks Tim.
I tell you what, I'm tempted to go for standard disks and pads and see how it goes. I wonder if my discs would have lasted longer with standard pads as opposed to Pagid Yellows? I bought Pagid Yellows because I was told that they last a long time. There is no point in them lasting a long time if your discs are shagged after 4 track days because the Pagid yellows should go in the bin as well according to most people here.
I know Randeria on this forum mentioned that the OE pads were available as a different brand for very little money indeed. I'm sure these are Textar as wolfie says. Does anyone know ifferent? As long as my braking power is OK with the standard set up, taking the standard brakes route might be the cheapest way to go??
I tell you what, I'm tempted to go for standard disks and pads and see how it goes. I wonder if my discs would have lasted longer with standard pads as opposed to Pagid Yellows? I bought Pagid Yellows because I was told that they last a long time. There is no point in them lasting a long time if your discs are shagged after 4 track days because the Pagid yellows should go in the bin as well according to most people here.
I know Randeria on this forum mentioned that the OE pads were available as a different brand for very little money indeed. I'm sure these are Textar as wolfie says. Does anyone know ifferent? As long as my braking power is OK with the standard set up, taking the standard brakes route might be the cheapest way to go??
Doc , this is a little contentious but i believe i am using Motorsport discs they look just like urs and only cost abt £40 per disc extra ............i dont have the part numbers, Steve Winter at Jaz has ! The contention is we ve been conned by Motorsports dept and they are all the same material? IMO they wud be overkill on ur car , i have then on the megga BHP gt2, and they DO LAST LONGER............it really is all commomn sense , even if a little oversimplified , what u using the car for? then u ve got the equation, harder the pads quicker ur discs grind down/ conversely does nt mean softer the pads longer ur discs last .............its loads of how u use them, and most importantly how u warm them up and let them cool down................one things certain Porsche spent a lot of time testing their brakes and its sometimes hard to beat the original product except in full race , very heavy track day scenarios .
Johhny
You're new to the car, so my advice is to stick to standard discs and pads. The 993RS will out brake most things on standard stuff. I am the "randeria" who posted a while ago about using the textar pads.
Whilst the Pagid Blacks I have now give a nicer "bite", the stopping distance isn't noticeably different, particularly as you are still getting used to driving the car. The textar ones never suffered from fade.
To illustrate the power of the standard brakes, the following was recorded on the data logger in my car (on Cup tyres, tested August last year), and the figures in brackets are from a McLaren F1 LM road car (source: www.mclarencars.com/content/sections/mainfr/feat.htm )
100-60mph 1.40 sec (1.6 sec)
100-50mph 1.98 sec (2.0 sec)
70-50mph 0.69 sec (0.8 sec)
Given the data logger hasn't been calibrated for about a year, I would round the timings on my car to 1dp.
I'm not using this as a comparison to say "RS is better than a F1", rather to highlight how effective the standard pads and discs are.
Using standard discs and textar pads I got 5,800 track miles (not road and track) = about about 30 - 40 track days out of the discs. Pads need changing every 1000-1500 track miles.
I know there will be people on this forum who advocate using harder pads etc, and that's fine when you are racing / really know the car inside out, but you've just got the car and it takes YEARS to learn to drive it well. I've had mine for 3 1/2 years and I'm still learning and I still take instruction.
I was the Silver RS at Bedford on Saturday, and on standard discs and Pagid Blacks the car was braking perfectly well.
Hope this helps
Zub
You're new to the car, so my advice is to stick to standard discs and pads. The 993RS will out brake most things on standard stuff. I am the "randeria" who posted a while ago about using the textar pads.
Whilst the Pagid Blacks I have now give a nicer "bite", the stopping distance isn't noticeably different, particularly as you are still getting used to driving the car. The textar ones never suffered from fade.
To illustrate the power of the standard brakes, the following was recorded on the data logger in my car (on Cup tyres, tested August last year), and the figures in brackets are from a McLaren F1 LM road car (source: www.mclarencars.com/content/sections/mainfr/feat.htm )
100-60mph 1.40 sec (1.6 sec)
100-50mph 1.98 sec (2.0 sec)
70-50mph 0.69 sec (0.8 sec)
Given the data logger hasn't been calibrated for about a year, I would round the timings on my car to 1dp.
I'm not using this as a comparison to say "RS is better than a F1", rather to highlight how effective the standard pads and discs are.
Using standard discs and textar pads I got 5,800 track miles (not road and track) = about about 30 - 40 track days out of the discs. Pads need changing every 1000-1500 track miles.
I know there will be people on this forum who advocate using harder pads etc, and that's fine when you are racing / really know the car inside out, but you've just got the car and it takes YEARS to learn to drive it well. I've had mine for 3 1/2 years and I'm still learning and I still take instruction.
I was the Silver RS at Bedford on Saturday, and on standard discs and Pagid Blacks the car was braking perfectly well.
Hope this helps
Zub
Hi Zub,
It was nice to meet you at Bedford. Although my car had more straight line speed than yours, you whipped me in the corners and I honestly didn't think that I was hanging around either. The lads in the red and yellow 964 RSs thought the same as well. Respect mate.
Anyway, I am thinking that the Textar pads with standard discs may be a good option. I have 2 questions for you:
1) When you say your discs lasted all that time, do you mean they took ages to crack? Did the cracks just appear slowly?
2) Where did you get the Textar pads from?
Many thanks and I hope to catch up with you on a track day soon.
And I promise not to trailer my car for the foreseeable future.
It was nice to meet you at Bedford. Although my car had more straight line speed than yours, you whipped me in the corners and I honestly didn't think that I was hanging around either. The lads in the red and yellow 964 RSs thought the same as well. Respect mate.
Anyway, I am thinking that the Textar pads with standard discs may be a good option. I have 2 questions for you:
1) When you say your discs lasted all that time, do you mean they took ages to crack? Did the cracks just appear slowly?
2) Where did you get the Textar pads from?
Many thanks and I hope to catch up with you on a track day soon.
And I promise not to trailer my car for the foreseeable future.
Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff