Which of these two, Fiat 20VT or BMW Z4?
Discussion
Not dissimilar to a previous thread of mine, but now it's down to a choice of two (albeit very different) weekend cars. I thought I would get some opinions here. You lot are good at opinions, so let’s hear them!
The choice is down to Fiat Coupe 20V Turbo, or BMW Z4 3.0. So, turbo charged 5 cylinder FWD 90’s coupe, or NA straight six RWD 00’s 2 seat sports car. Very different in many ways. If I could have both I would.
I’ve owned a 20VT before and would like another. Kind of an emotional response I guess. A marmite car for sure. A bit temperamental maybe, but with an enthusiastic following and prices firming up as rarity kicks in and interest builds as a future classic. A car I could own, improve and maybe even add value.
The Z4, ok it’s another Bangle design, but that is the only commonality here. Not owned one of these, but had a few BMW. Rear wheel drive, two seat, top-down motoring with a silky smooth straight six. More modern look and feel, but perhaps not able to develop such an emotional attachment. Rather a lot of them about (could be a good or a bad thing).
Either will fit in my garage. Not interested in MPG differences etc, as it'll be a second (well, third) car only used on 'nice' weekends and holidays.
I’m imagining more support here for the BMW, but I may be wrong. A lot people just don’t ‘get’ the Fiat, unless they’ve owned one, then they realise how much they get under your skin.
The choice is down to Fiat Coupe 20V Turbo, or BMW Z4 3.0. So, turbo charged 5 cylinder FWD 90’s coupe, or NA straight six RWD 00’s 2 seat sports car. Very different in many ways. If I could have both I would.
I’ve owned a 20VT before and would like another. Kind of an emotional response I guess. A marmite car for sure. A bit temperamental maybe, but with an enthusiastic following and prices firming up as rarity kicks in and interest builds as a future classic. A car I could own, improve and maybe even add value.
The Z4, ok it’s another Bangle design, but that is the only commonality here. Not owned one of these, but had a few BMW. Rear wheel drive, two seat, top-down motoring with a silky smooth straight six. More modern look and feel, but perhaps not able to develop such an emotional attachment. Rather a lot of them about (could be a good or a bad thing).
Either will fit in my garage. Not interested in MPG differences etc, as it'll be a second (well, third) car only used on 'nice' weekends and holidays.
I’m imagining more support here for the BMW, but I may be wrong. A lot people just don’t ‘get’ the Fiat, unless they’ve owned one, then they realise how much they get under your skin.
Interesting choice! I reckon most here would pick the Z4 and to be fair it is the more rational choice.
I've had a Fiat Coupe 20vt plus for about 7 years (and a 16v before that), but that was sold 8 years ago. I've replaced it with a Honda S2000 (the Z4 3.0 was 2nd choice back then). The Honda is way better build, more reliable and a lot more fun and much sharper to drive. But I've never liked it as much as the Fiat. I was at an Italian cars event yesterday (in Holland) and looking at the coupe's I realised how much it miss the car and the community. I've even looked in the classifieds today and found a pristine example for way to much money that I would love to have.
But to be fair I don't think you should go back. The Fiat cost me a fortune back then and the cars are even older today. I don't think it could meet my expectations and it's probably better to try something different this time. But if you're brave and pick the Fiat I applaud you :-)
I've had a Fiat Coupe 20vt plus for about 7 years (and a 16v before that), but that was sold 8 years ago. I've replaced it with a Honda S2000 (the Z4 3.0 was 2nd choice back then). The Honda is way better build, more reliable and a lot more fun and much sharper to drive. But I've never liked it as much as the Fiat. I was at an Italian cars event yesterday (in Holland) and looking at the coupe's I realised how much it miss the car and the community. I've even looked in the classifieds today and found a pristine example for way to much money that I would love to have.
But to be fair I don't think you should go back. The Fiat cost me a fortune back then and the cars are even older today. I don't think it could meet my expectations and it's probably better to try something different this time. But if you're brave and pick the Fiat I applaud you :-)
My girlfriend has a Z4 3.0si in Pheonix Yellow. Great car to drive- RWD, super smooth 6-cylinder engine, 265bhp, electric roof etc.
If you were looking for a fun car to use every day I would choose that all day long. However, as a weekend-only car, the Z4 is not that 'exciting'. All the things that make it a great 'car' actually work against it in terms of being a great weekend toy. I love driving it, but if the weather is half-decent I'll jump in my TVR no question.
It depends on your appetite for dealing with potential issues though- the Z4 will likely be super reliable, and cost comparatively little to run/service etc. The Fiat coupe will probably be a lot more 'trying' in this regard, but dare I say it feel a bit more special? Particularly when you consider the relative rarity of them these days.
Out of those two I would probably chose the Fiat, but that's only because I prefer a bit more excitement from a weekend-only toy. The Z4 is a great car (the si engine is a peach), but IMO a bit lacking in excitement. An after-market exhaust system would be a must.
Did I mention excitement?
If you were looking for a fun car to use every day I would choose that all day long. However, as a weekend-only car, the Z4 is not that 'exciting'. All the things that make it a great 'car' actually work against it in terms of being a great weekend toy. I love driving it, but if the weather is half-decent I'll jump in my TVR no question.
It depends on your appetite for dealing with potential issues though- the Z4 will likely be super reliable, and cost comparatively little to run/service etc. The Fiat coupe will probably be a lot more 'trying' in this regard, but dare I say it feel a bit more special? Particularly when you consider the relative rarity of them these days.
Out of those two I would probably chose the Fiat, but that's only because I prefer a bit more excitement from a weekend-only toy. The Z4 is a great car (the si engine is a peach), but IMO a bit lacking in excitement. An after-market exhaust system would be a must.
Did I mention excitement?
I've been thinking about the Z4 for over a year now and I still like them.
The handling is somewhat to be desired from what I've read when pushing on,but then again the Fiat is not much different.
My Coupe is a tuned and track prepared one so that's that box ticked and I can't see it going anywhere else.
I've decided that when the spare cash is available it has to be the Z4M coupe that goes into the weekend car equation as I don't want a coupe version car with less power than my Fiat.
Strange thing is there are a fair few ex fiat coupe owners that went onto the Z4.
Hello Jurgen hope you enjoyed the weekend.
The handling is somewhat to be desired from what I've read when pushing on,but then again the Fiat is not much different.
My Coupe is a tuned and track prepared one so that's that box ticked and I can't see it going anywhere else.
I've decided that when the spare cash is available it has to be the Z4M coupe that goes into the weekend car equation as I don't want a coupe version car with less power than my Fiat.
Strange thing is there are a fair few ex fiat coupe owners that went onto the Z4.
Hello Jurgen hope you enjoyed the weekend.
Squirrelofwoe said:
My girlfriend has a Z4 3.0si in Pheonix Yellow. Great car to drive- RWD, super smooth 6-cylinder engine, 265bhp, electric roof etc.
If you were looking for a fun car to use every day I would choose that all day long. However, as a weekend-only car, the Z4 is not that 'exciting'. All the things that make it a great 'car' actually work against it in terms of being a great weekend toy. I love driving it, but if the weather is half-decent I'll jump in my TVR no question.
It depends on your appetite for dealing with potential issues though- the Z4 will likely be super reliable, and cost comparatively little to run/service etc. The Fiat coupe will probably be a lot more 'trying' in this regard, but dare I say it feel a bit more special? Particularly when you consider the relative rarity of them these days.
Out of those two I would probably chose the Fiat, but that's only because I prefer a bit more excitement from a weekend-only toy. The Z4 is a great car (the si engine is a peach), but IMO a bit lacking in excitement. An after-market exhaust system would be a must.
Did I mention excitement?
This explains my dilemma. On one hand I want something which will not cost the earth to run and will not cause me sleepless nights wondering what the next issue/bill will be. On the other hand I want something interesting, that I can be enthusiastic about, which creates a sense of occasion when I drive it out the garage at the weekend. I know I can’t have it all though as my budget is modest at £6k ish.If you were looking for a fun car to use every day I would choose that all day long. However, as a weekend-only car, the Z4 is not that 'exciting'. All the things that make it a great 'car' actually work against it in terms of being a great weekend toy. I love driving it, but if the weather is half-decent I'll jump in my TVR no question.
It depends on your appetite for dealing with potential issues though- the Z4 will likely be super reliable, and cost comparatively little to run/service etc. The Fiat coupe will probably be a lot more 'trying' in this regard, but dare I say it feel a bit more special? Particularly when you consider the relative rarity of them these days.
Out of those two I would probably chose the Fiat, but that's only because I prefer a bit more excitement from a weekend-only toy. The Z4 is a great car (the si engine is a peach), but IMO a bit lacking in excitement. An after-market exhaust system would be a must.
Did I mention excitement?
b19rak said:
Z4, how is this even a question. Extremely quick, reliable easy to service. An old Fiat will go very wrong. I’ve got the Z4 Coupe. Great car.
I had a Fiat Coupe for yrs. it didn’t go wrong. I had a bmw. It did. Exact opposite of what you’re saying. OP you need to have a go in a Z4 and see if you like them. If you don’t like the drive then its out of the equation.
Had a Z4 3.0 last year to play about with and didn't like it. Much more hairdresser than sports car... I only bought it as they seem such incredible value..
It all depends how you are going to use it. If you are doing A Roads, roundabouts and dual carriage way the Z4 feels like a sports car, but grab it by the scruff of the neck and properly chuck it down a proper B road and it wasn't very good at all.
The engine is lovely, smooth, sounds ok and fires the car down the road at a reasonable rate, its just not massively exciting. Again its all a case of perspective - compared to a Civic daily hack its going to feel exciting, but against a similar era S2000 its a little bland.
I dont want to be that person who suggests an MX5, as I doubt its even on your radar (never was on mine), but since I have driven a few I can confirm that you could most likely have much more fun in a £1500 MX5 than either of your choices.
It all depends how you are going to use it. If you are doing A Roads, roundabouts and dual carriage way the Z4 feels like a sports car, but grab it by the scruff of the neck and properly chuck it down a proper B road and it wasn't very good at all.
The engine is lovely, smooth, sounds ok and fires the car down the road at a reasonable rate, its just not massively exciting. Again its all a case of perspective - compared to a Civic daily hack its going to feel exciting, but against a similar era S2000 its a little bland.
I dont want to be that person who suggests an MX5, as I doubt its even on your radar (never was on mine), but since I have driven a few I can confirm that you could most likely have much more fun in a £1500 MX5 than either of your choices.
russy01 said:
Had a Z4 3.0 last year to play about with and didn't like it. Much more hairdresser than sports car... I only bought it as they seem such incredible value..
It all depends how you are going to use it. If you are doing A Roads, roundabouts and dual carriage way the Z4 feels like a sports car, but grab it by the scruff of the neck and properly chuck it down a proper B road and it wasn't very good at all.
The engine is lovely, smooth, sounds ok and fires the car down the road at a reasonable rate, its just not massively exciting. Again its all a case of perspective - compared to a Civic daily hack its going to feel exciting, but against a similar era S2000 its a little bland.
That sums up my thoughts on the Z4 too. It all depends how you are going to use it. If you are doing A Roads, roundabouts and dual carriage way the Z4 feels like a sports car, but grab it by the scruff of the neck and properly chuck it down a proper B road and it wasn't very good at all.
The engine is lovely, smooth, sounds ok and fires the car down the road at a reasonable rate, its just not massively exciting. Again its all a case of perspective - compared to a Civic daily hack its going to feel exciting, but against a similar era S2000 its a little bland.
It's a shame S2000 prices have crept up so much over the last few years, one of those would have been a great shout if you could stretch to it. Much more character than the Z4, the performance is harder to extract but that is where the enjoyment is. The gearchange in the S2000 (as in all hot Hondas of that era) makes the Z4 change feel like an Astra in comparison, and as a former DC2 and Accord Type-R owner I could never get bored of winding the revs up on screaming Vtec engines
I would expect the 3.0si Z4 would feel noticeably quicker on an A-road mind, but it depends what you want from a weekend car.
Squirrelofwoe said:
That sums up my thoughts on the Z4 too.
It's a shame S2000 prices have crept up so much over the last few years, one of those would have been a great shout if you could stretch to it. Much more character than the Z4, the performance is harder to extract but that is where the enjoyment is. The gearchange in the S2000 (as in all hot Hondas of that era) makes the Z4 change feel like an Astra in comparison, and as a former DC2 and Accord Type-R owner I could never get bored of winding the revs up on screaming Vtec engines
I would expect the 3.0si Z4 would feel noticeably quicker on an A-road mind, but it depends what you want from a weekend car.
I had an S2000 for 18months and 25,000 miles (my daily) and absolutely adored it, you had to drive it like you stole it - absolutely fantastic engine and gearbox. Anyway, during 25k miles the car cost me £400 and hardly lost a penny in value - I was chuffed and sold it having loved the experience. Not did I know that just 5 years on my car would be worth probably 50% more than I sold it for! It's a shame S2000 prices have crept up so much over the last few years, one of those would have been a great shout if you could stretch to it. Much more character than the Z4, the performance is harder to extract but that is where the enjoyment is. The gearchange in the S2000 (as in all hot Hondas of that era) makes the Z4 change feel like an Astra in comparison, and as a former DC2 and Accord Type-R owner I could never get bored of winding the revs up on screaming Vtec engines
I would expect the 3.0si Z4 would feel noticeably quicker on an A-road mind, but it depends what you want from a weekend car.
I test drove an S2000 last year whilst I owned the Z4 and it highlighted all the points above in great detail. However I just cannot justify the silly asking prices for them now... whilst they are great cars the increases in prices are becoming daft. I think a lot of it is due to owners trying their luck with very mediocre examples, i.e there are a lot of cars for sale at high prices - but is anybody actually buying them?
From what you say about your love for the Fiat, in terms of quirkiness, flaws and personality I think the S2000 would be your perfect match - it has a lot of character. Although their now inflated asking price puts them in in the mix with lots of other very nice cars which have continued to depreciate!
I need to get my thoughts around what exactly I want from a weekend car, if indeed it will be a weekend car. Part of the issue is that my needs for a daily driver is keeping it as cheap as possible, not worrying about being filthy all the time, scratched, full of dirty work boots and gear, etc. I therefore have a £1k Aygo that costs peanuts to run and never gets washed. It fits the bill, but it leaves me wanting something fun for when I’m not commuting along my muddy, narrow country lane route to work. It’s pointless having a ‘nice’ daily driver as it would get wrecked. My motoring kicks will therefore need to come from a second car (actually third car, as I’ve ignored the family estate). One for weekends and holidays and maybe some summer drives to work when I know I’m not going out to site with it.
Interesting hearing some of your thoughts on the Z4. I need to get out and drive one on the sort of roads I use. Also interesting hearing your S2000 thoughts. I do like these, but as pointed out prices are heading up rapidly and it looks like all but the oldest/highest mileage examples are currently out of my reach.
Maybe I need to go back to the 'long list' and think a bit more about alternatives, once I have got clear exactly what my needs are.
Interesting hearing some of your thoughts on the Z4. I need to get out and drive one on the sort of roads I use. Also interesting hearing your S2000 thoughts. I do like these, but as pointed out prices are heading up rapidly and it looks like all but the oldest/highest mileage examples are currently out of my reach.
Maybe I need to go back to the 'long list' and think a bit more about alternatives, once I have got clear exactly what my needs are.
I used to have a Z4 Coupe 3.0Si.
It was a very fast car in a straight line.
It looked beautiful.
The engine sounded fantastic (with one of the foams removed from the sound tube thing), and it was smooth and torquey.
Exhaust was too muted, really needed back box delete to wake it up.
Handling so so.
Not as much fun as the cheapo MR2 that replaced it for hooning.
It was a very fast car in a straight line.
It looked beautiful.
The engine sounded fantastic (with one of the foams removed from the sound tube thing), and it was smooth and torquey.
Exhaust was too muted, really needed back box delete to wake it up.
Handling so so.
Not as much fun as the cheapo MR2 that replaced it for hooning.
TameRacingDriver said:
I used to have a Z4 Coupe 3.0Si.
It was a very fast car in a straight line.
It looked beautiful.
The engine sounded fantastic (with one of the foams removed from the sound tube thing), and it was smooth and torquey.
Exhaust was too muted, really needed back box delete to wake it up.
Handling so so.
Not as much fun as the cheapo MR2 that replaced it for hooning.
Similar here, though my Z4 3.0Si was the roadster version. It was a very fine car but I sold it for what I paid for it, pocketed £7k and bought an MR2 roadster for £1850.00. The Toyota is without question more fun to drive and it costs less to run of course.It was a very fast car in a straight line.
It looked beautiful.
The engine sounded fantastic (with one of the foams removed from the sound tube thing), and it was smooth and torquey.
Exhaust was too muted, really needed back box delete to wake it up.
Handling so so.
Not as much fun as the cheapo MR2 that replaced it for hooning.
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