Daily driver eventual track car

[dsme94]

Nearer the end of the year, I will be looking at chopping in my RS3 8V in favour of a track car, however, this car will have to be daily driven for the first year. I'm struggling to make a decision on which car to buy, here's my thought process, I'd love for some other peoples opinions. My budget for the car only is £15-20k.

Volkswagen Golf R MK7 DSG (Stage 2 - 400bhp)
Pros
- Immense grip
Cons
- Understeer
- Gearbox overheating (unsure how common this is and how it can be remedied)
- Could get boring quickly

Audi S3 8v DSG (Stage 2 - 400bhp)
Pros
- Immense grip
Cons
- Understeer
- Gearbox overheating (unsure how common this is and how it can be remedied)
- Could get boring quickly

E46 M3 Manual
Pros
- Reputation
Cons
- Old and problematic:
Headgasket
Boot floor cracking
Vanos

M135i DCT (JB4 400bhp)
Pros
- Tuning potential (400bhp)
- Lots to learn

M235i DCT (JB4 400bhp)
Pros
- Tuning potential (400bhp)
- Lots to learn

Ruling out an E92 M3 as I'm not willing to pay the price it comes with to keep on track. Ruling out Evo's due to reliability. I considered a Lotus Elise but don't think they are fast enough? Yes, you can get them with K20/20vt but I don't think I'm looking to do an engine conversion. Additionally, I think bare shells on all the above are not too hard to come by in the event of a big boo-boo. I don't think I'm looking for something front wheel drive neither, although a JCW Mini is not off the cards for some reason. Once I managed to secure a daily driver a year down the line of ownership, whichever car I buy will be fully stripped with only the dashboard remaining.

I live in Scotland so most frequently visiting Knockhill.

Car history:
Integra DC2
Mini Cooper S
E36 328i
M3 E46
M3 E92
Golf R MK7
RS3 8V

Edited by dsme94 on Wednesday 11th April 13:34

Edited by dsme94 on Wednesday 11th April 13:40

[nickfrog]

I would say they have immense traction rather than lateral grip.

A far better choice would be a Megane Cup-S at that budget. It's track proof out of the box (apart from £150 worth of pads and fluid upgrade), yet will be ok on the road. Insist on Recaros as you can fit a harness for £100.

I know you don't want front wheel drive but the Megane will understeer less than the VAGs and BMWs which are set up more conservatively and for road use only.

Edited by nickfrog on Wednesday 11th April 13:46

[culpz]

How often are you gonna do track days?

Many will preach that having something light is the way to go, but that's usually more the case when it's a track day most of the time with minimal or no daily driving. It's worth considering if/when the bug hits you and you want to do more and more. The track part of the driving will start adding up with the expense of more tyres, brake disks, pads, etc. Heavier cars will go through them quicker.

With that being said, there are some good cars that can do both. Something like a Clio 200 or a Renaultsport Megane 250/265/275 are good alternatives. They're not the lightest cars but are pretty much readily set up for the track. I love my VAG cars but for track use, they generally need a bit more tinkering and track prep stuff/upgrades to make them decent.

[dsme94]

I'm hoping to be doing a track evening once a month maximum, maybe two during summer. Track days I reckon will be around 3-4 a year.

[culpz]

Well, the Megane is still a good FWD choice. It's a real drivers car and will really show you what it can do on track. I know Nick will vouch for that aswell.

M240i and Golf R sound good to me too. They will probably need a few more tweaks as track prep compared to the Megane though.

[dsme94]

culpz said:

Well, the Megane is still a good FWD choice. It's a real drivers car and will really show you what it can do on track. I know Nick will vouch for that aswell.

M240i and Golf R sound good to me too. They will probably need a few more tweaks as track prep compared to the Megane though.

I'm swaying a lot towards the M240i, however, the decision hasn't been made hence the topic, the reasons for that are I feel there will be a lot to learn in this with it being RWD, on the contrary, I do feel I can already push the Golf R hard as is. I also feel that with seat time the M240i would be faster than all of the above on track, I will stand corrected though.

I'm happy to spend money on modifications, whichever car it is that I buy.

Edited by dsme94 on Wednesday 11th April 15:21

Edited by dsme94 on Wednesday 11th April 15:21

[ZX10R NIN]

The M135/Golf R are both good cars for track work (although both can do these too) but with your budget the RS275 Trophy/Cup S with the Ohlins Suspension/Akrapovic Exhaust & Recaros make it the stand out option as you really don't need to do a thing to it (obviously as you get more serious you'll change parts) despite having more power both of the two former cars will need a decent amount of suspension work to match the Renault, although when those cars appear with the spec I listed above they're normally snapped up:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

RB8 265

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

[boombap]

M135i or M235i will no doubt be better than a Renault for daily driving.

[Shiv_P]

boombap said:

M135i or M235i will no doubt be better than a Renault for daily driving.

but most probably worse for track work.
You will have to do a lot of work to a M135/M235 to get it as track ready as a cup or trophy megane

[boombap]

Shiv_P said:

but most probably worse for track work.
You will have to do a lot of work to a M135/M235 to get it as track ready as a cup or trophy megane

Agreed, there's a few things you can do. But modifying is something people might prefer/plan to do anyway!

[ZX10R NIN]

boombap said:

Agreed, there's a few things you can do. But modifying is something people might prefer/plan to do anyway!

Yes but when you start from a better base point the money can go on more trick things rather than parts just to get the car up to par with the Megane & at that point you may have something that's no better to daily than the Megane.

By the way OP I forgot this gem which will do track work with ease as well as being rare on UK roads, it's a great drive too I'd have one over a Golf R/M135i & they already come with a good suspension setup the N/A engine will cause you no issues either.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

[boombap]

ZX10R NIN said:

Yes but when you start from a better base point the money can go on more trick things rather than parts just to get the car up to par with the Megane & at that point you may have something that's no better to daily than the Megane.

By the way OP I forgot this gem which will do track work with ease as well as being rare on UK roads, it's a great drive too I'd have one over a Golf R/M135i & they already come with a good suspension setup the N/A engine will cause you no issues either.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

Exactly, so it's all about the compromise and requirements/expectations of the person in question I guess.

[C70R]

dsme94 said:

Nearer the end of the year, I will be looking at chopping in my RS3 8V in favour of a track car, however, this car will have to be daily driven for the first year.

Am I being really stupid here? But, why not drive something that's a fast version of a road car (like all the heavy, driver-aid-assisted stuff you've listed) for a year, then chop it in for an Elise or similar when you start doing trackdays?

[dsme94]

C70R said:

Am I being really stupid here? But, why not drive something that's a fast version of a road car (like all the heavy, driver-aid-assisted stuff you've listed) for a year, then chop it in for an Elise or similar when you start doing trackdays?

I don't think they are fast enough without an engine conversion and I think if I smashed it on track then it would be significantly more expensive to repair although I am saying this with absolutely no research and stand corrected.

[C70R]

dsme94 said:

C70R said:

Am I being really stupid here? But, why not drive something that's a fast version of a road car (like all the heavy, driver-aid-assisted stuff you've listed) for a year, then chop it in for an Elise or similar when you start doing trackdays?

I don't think they are fast enough without an engine conversion and I think if I smashed it on track then it would be significantly more expensive to repair although I am saying this with absolutely no research and stand corrected.

Significantly more expensive to repair a £15k Elise than a brand new £30k BMW?
I'm really confused...

[dsme94]

I'm not buying a new m235i?

[drgoatboy]

dsme94 said:

I don't think they are fast enough without an engine conversion and I think if I smashed it on track then it would be significantly more expensive to repair although I am saying this with absolutely no research and stand corrected.

In a straight line, no they are not as fast as some of the others you listed but that's completely missing the point of something like an Elise.
They are a whole different driving experience.

You'll have to go older but a VX220 turbo could tick a lot of boxes and easily tuned to be staggeringly fast.

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

[C70R]

drgoatboy said:

In a straight line, no they are not as fast as some of the others you listed but that's completely missing the point of something like an Elise.

IMHO that's also completely missing the point of a trackday.
Taking a 1.6T road car with 400bhp around a track is going to end up pissing off no end of people who have turned up in proper track motors. You'll be walloping it past them on the straights, then holding them up in the corners. Even my modest 206 track car gets held up behind 'faster' cars.

OP, do yourself a favour and have a bash at a trackday before you decide on a car. While a 400bhp Golf R might be fun on the road (within reason), you can have a LOT more fun on track with less power and weight.

[dsme94]

C70R said:

IMHO that's also completely missing the point of a trackday.
Taking a 1.6T road car with 400bhp around a track is going to end up pissing off no end of people who have turned up in proper track motors. You'll be walloping it past them on the straights, then holding them up in the corners. Even my modest 206 track car gets held up behind 'faster' cars.

OP, do yourself a favour and have a bash at a trackday before you decide on a car. While a 400bhp Golf R might be fun on the road (within reason), you can have a LOT more fun on track with less power and weight.

I have a track day to do in the RS3, I just need to get some new PS4s tyres and some new brake fluid, so maybe after that, it will be more clear what I want. I don't want to be in a position where faster cars are holding me up corners and I can't pass them on the straight that's for sure.

[HustleRussell]

All of those cars are big, fat and complicated. Their brakes and tyres are expensive. Their financial value will be severely impacted by track day modifications and gravel rash. Rethink IMO.