DOES A COBB/ECU TUNE INVALIDATE OPC WARRANTY?
Discussion
Quick query.... As I’m having little joy in finding a suitable specced/priced 991.1 GT3/GT3-RS at the moment, I’m seriously considering “modding” my GT4 to “de-restrict” the Carrera S lump currently in the middle of the car.... Porsche purposely imposed a de-tune on the car to hold it back from its GT3 competitor, and retain the heirarchy of models....
Now, this is quite easily done: less restrictive headers, GT3 Throttle Body, IPD Plenum, together with an ECU tune (COBB or others).... This will fairly reliable release an extra 35-45hp, depending on the presence of a Cat....
My question: I’m assuming these “bolt-ons” will obviously invalidate my current Porsche Approved Warranty.... However, come Service/Warranty/111pt inspection time, can I just remove these bolt-ons and return the car to stock....?? Thus retaining my warranty...?? These bolt-ons, including the COBB tune, are marketed as being easily reversible to “stock”, including re-instating the original OEM ECU files.... Sooooo...... Would Porsche ever know....?? Or could they discover what I’d done through “interrogation” of the ECU, and thus invalidate my Warranty....?? Hmmmm....
Now, this is quite easily done: less restrictive headers, GT3 Throttle Body, IPD Plenum, together with an ECU tune (COBB or others).... This will fairly reliable release an extra 35-45hp, depending on the presence of a Cat....
My question: I’m assuming these “bolt-ons” will obviously invalidate my current Porsche Approved Warranty.... However, come Service/Warranty/111pt inspection time, can I just remove these bolt-ons and return the car to stock....?? Thus retaining my warranty...?? These bolt-ons, including the COBB tune, are marketed as being easily reversible to “stock”, including re-instating the original OEM ECU files.... Sooooo...... Would Porsche ever know....?? Or could they discover what I’d done through “interrogation” of the ECU, and thus invalidate my Warranty....?? Hmmmm....
Twinfan said:
I'm pretty sure a simple check at an OPC would highlight an ECU re-flash.
Aside from that, surely you'd be attempting what could amount to fraud if you made a warranty claim?
I have no idea whether this would amount to “fraud”.... But I’m pretty sure that I wouldn’t be the first to stick “non-OEM” items on Porsche Warrantied cars, but to then remove them for the sake of the 111pt inspection/Warranty purposes.... In fact, many discussions on Pistonheads relate to just this matter: non N-Rated tyres, non-OEM batteries, non-OEM brake pads/discs/exhausts etc.....Aside from that, surely you'd be attempting what could amount to fraud if you made a warranty claim?
I'd be amazed if you could install all those mods and reverse them come service/111 point check time and nothing ever show up. I know lots of people do it with things like Sharkwerks pipes and some OPC's turn a blind eye etc to modifications like that but I doubt they would to an engine modification.
The thing is for me that Porsche offers such a wide range of cars in different states of tune and chassis etc that i would much rather own an OEM Porsche product than modify a relatively new car that is under warranty.
Someone posted the other day about chipping a 991.2 GTS....surely you but a 991 Turbo instead ?!?!
The thing is for me that Porsche offers such a wide range of cars in different states of tune and chassis etc that i would much rather own an OEM Porsche product than modify a relatively new car that is under warranty.
Someone posted the other day about chipping a 991.2 GTS....surely you but a 991 Turbo instead ?!?!
Is the car approaching the end of the 3 year manufacturer warranty? If so, why not get the inspection done and buy the two year warranty and then do the mods? By the time it comes around to getting an inspection done again (5 years old) you might not be worried about extending it again if you've had trouble free motoring. The only issue I can see with this is if questions arise when you get it serviced in the interim. However, on a positive note, I know of at least two with suspension and brake mods that have had theirs serviced at their OPC without being pulled up on what they've had done.
boxsey said:
Is the car approaching the end of the 3 year manufacturer warranty? If so, why not get the inspection done and buy the two year warranty and then do the mods? By the time it comes around to getting an inspection done again (5 years old) you might not be worried about extending it again if you've had trouble free motoring. The only issue I can see with this is if questions arise when you get it serviced in the interim. However, on a positive note, I know of at least two with suspension and brake mods that have had theirs serviced at their OPC without being pulled up on what they've had done.
You read my mind Boxsey 
— Just had the inspection done, and extended the warranty until 2020.... That’s why I’m now in the position to seriously consider this....!! Biggest concern for me is if something goes wrong within the 2 year interim, and my car is full of bolt-ons that need to be rapidly removed...!!I also agree with the “flexibility” some OPCs seem to show towards “non-OEM” parts.... I have a few mates who seem to “get away” with all sorts of things when it comes to Inspection Time.... Guess a lot comes down to your relationship with your local OPC....!!
As with any company, the question is not 'can they find out', because the answer is always yes. It's if it can be covered up enough for them to stop looking.
Generally any good tuner should be able to return the car to standard and hide it as much as possible to trick a dealer level warranty issue. But if you have an engine failure etc, and the manufacturer chooses to look deep enough, they'll find some evidence of it eventually.
It's a gamble you choose to take. If it's something you're worried about, don't do it. And don't post it online anywhere, because that could all be used against you for a warranty claim if they choose to explore things such as social media.
Generally any good tuner should be able to return the car to standard and hide it as much as possible to trick a dealer level warranty issue. But if you have an engine failure etc, and the manufacturer chooses to look deep enough, they'll find some evidence of it eventually.
It's a gamble you choose to take. If it's something you're worried about, don't do it. And don't post it online anywhere, because that could all be used against you for a warranty claim if they choose to explore things such as social media.
Twinfan said:
I really can't understand why anyone thinks adding modifications, and them removing them prior to a warranty claim inspection, is acceptable behaviour.
Is it “acceptable behaviour” to refuse a claim regarding the loss of 3rd gear on a GT4, when the car has a “non-OEM” battery, or “non-OEM brake discs”....?? Probably not: but I’d imagine Porsche would be well within their “rights” to refuse to repair the car under warranty in this scenario... Whilst it may be expected that Porsche would have to associate the “modification” with the “fault” in order to refuse a claim, it wouldn’t be that difficult for them to establish a convoluted chain of events that could vaguely link the 2— even if, in reality, there was near enough zero possibility of this really being the case.... If we’re talking the “morality” of car mods— which was not really my initial question— it would also surely be relevant to question the morality of refusing repairs on a vehicle whose modifications most likely had nothing to do with the initial warranty claim. To be more specific: it is well known that Porsche “restricted” the Carrera S unit that went into the 981 GT4.... If said restriction was then removed/alleviated, would it be likely that this could lead to a significant engine issue, seeing as the motor itself operated quite happily (and under warranty) in an “un-restricted” form in the stock 991 Carrera S....?? Would it be “amoral” to allow the car to breath as originally intended....?? I would suggest not....
There's no evidence of Porsche refusing warranty claims on an engine due to a change of brake pads (for example) as far as I'm aware. Hypotheticals are just that - hypothetical.
Your question is basically "if I modify my engine can I still make sure it's covered under warranty", given that it's the most expensive part of the car I'm assuming that's why you still want it covered.
It seems to be very common in the car world to modify engines on the understanding that a warranty claim could still be made by not disclosing/hiding the fact that a modification has been in place. I find that completely unacceptable, but for some reason I seem to be in the vast minority
Your question is basically "if I modify my engine can I still make sure it's covered under warranty", given that it's the most expensive part of the car I'm assuming that's why you still want it covered.
It seems to be very common in the car world to modify engines on the understanding that a warranty claim could still be made by not disclosing/hiding the fact that a modification has been in place. I find that completely unacceptable, but for some reason I seem to be in the vast minority
Twinfan said:
There's no evidence of Porsche refusing warranty claims on an engine due to a change of brake pads (for example) as far as I'm aware. Hypotheticals are just that - hypothetical.
Your question is basically "if I modify my engine can I still make sure it's covered under warranty", given that it's the most expensive part of the car I'm assuming that's why you still want it covered.
It seems to be very common in the car world to modify engines on the understanding that a warranty claim could still be made by not disclosing/hiding the fact that a modification has been in place. I find that completely unacceptable, but for some reason I seem to be in the vast minority
We could go round in circles about this all day.... Whilst I do completely “get” your point (and agree, in general), using broad brush-strokes regarding issues of “morality” when covering a specific question isn’t really going to answer the original question...! Like I said above: my intention is to simply reduce the well known “restriction” placed by Porsche on the 991 Carrera S unit before plonking it into the GT4.... The unit can operate quite happily without such restriction.... In fact, it is most likely a much “happier” motor without the restriction (as evidenced by the awful fuel economy of the GT4 relative to the Carrera S itself..!!). I am not talking here of “chavving-up” my GT4 by whacking a bloody great Turbo on it, or tuning the crap out of it.... Simply “de-restricting” it, as many have done with great success...Your question is basically "if I modify my engine can I still make sure it's covered under warranty", given that it's the most expensive part of the car I'm assuming that's why you still want it covered.
It seems to be very common in the car world to modify engines on the understanding that a warranty claim could still be made by not disclosing/hiding the fact that a modification has been in place. I find that completely unacceptable, but for some reason I seem to be in the vast minority
And regarding the “hypothetical” scenario that you refer to: there have most definitely been instances where a Warranty has been refused by Porsche, following a 111pt inspection, due to the simplest of “mods”, such as a change of battery or brake discs.... It is not such a far cry to think that they may well refuse a warranty claim for the same reasons, whether or not it is “directly” responsible for the fault being claimed for...
I think you're wrong. Warranty extensions have not been allowed due to failing the 111-point check before taking it out - they are the terms of the warranty, like them or not. Warranty claim refusals are usually due to a directly related non-Porsche part being used.
You're argument about removing the restrictions in the GT4 are not valid - that's not how Porsche produced the car, therefore how can you expect them to honour the warranty on an engine/car combo that they didn't sell new?
You're argument about removing the restrictions in the GT4 are not valid - that's not how Porsche produced the car, therefore how can you expect them to honour the warranty on an engine/car combo that they didn't sell new?
Twinfan said:
There's no evidence of Porsche refusing warranty claims on an engine due to a change of brake pads (for example) as far as I'm aware. Hypotheticals are just that - hypothetical.
Your question is basically "if I modify my engine can I still make sure it's covered under warranty", given that it's the most expensive part of the car I'm assuming that's why you still want it covered.
It seems to be very common in the car world to modify engines on the understanding that a warranty claim could still be made by not disclosing/hiding the fact that a modification has been in place. I find that completely unacceptable, but for some reason I seem to be in the vast minority
fully agree - I'd be happy to modify a car, but would not then expect the warranty provider to honor a claim. And reversing stuff sounds very much like a deliberate attempt at fraud - which at the very least is morally wrong imoYour question is basically "if I modify my engine can I still make sure it's covered under warranty", given that it's the most expensive part of the car I'm assuming that's why you still want it covered.
It seems to be very common in the car world to modify engines on the understanding that a warranty claim could still be made by not disclosing/hiding the fact that a modification has been in place. I find that completely unacceptable, but for some reason I seem to be in the vast minority
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