She doesn't want a divorce/separation!
Discussion
Hi All
I wonder if someone would be kind enough to advise on a mortgage query I have.
To cut a long story short my partner with whom I have a young daughter does not want to sell our flat. I want to go separate ways and move on with my life but she refuses to accept that we have any relationship issues and does not want to separate. She's in complete denial.
If you would like to read the whole story in more detail then please visit this thread http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php...
The mortgage is in both of our names but I have been paying the full monthly amount since the start over a year ago plus I pay all the household bills and shopping. It all comes out from my bank account via direct debit.
Taking her to court is going to lead nowhere as I'm confident the court will not allow a sale of the property due to the welfare of my daughter which means I will be forced out and she will get to keep the house until my daughter is 18.
I have sought legal advice which I have echoed above. Basically the lawyers can't guarantee anything and will just make money eitherway whether the flat gets sold or not.
So I don't see the point in paying thousands of pounds in legal fees to end up with nothing.
I have moved out and currently living with a friend and have my own expenses.
As I no longer reside in this property I will take my name off the council tax and all other household bills so that I'm not liable to pay for any of it.
I will also cancel the direct debit for the mortgage payments.
I know this is a bad idea as it will have a detrimental effect on my credit file but in all honesty I'm not worried as I will slowly rebuild my credit score gradually over the next 10 years.
But I'm hoping it does not come to the point where the flat will be repossessed. The main aim of doing this is so that my partner and her family see enough sense to sit down with me and discuss this like grown up adults and agree that a sale of the property is in everyone's best interest instead of going to court or having the flat repossessed.
For reference I paid 55k deposit towards the property and she paid 35k and the deed is setup as tenants in common.
My questions are:
1. If I cease to make the mortgage repayments and she (and her family) step in and continue with the payments, would I still have any rights over the property? If so would I be able to force a sale of the property in 18 years?
2. Will she be able to take my name off the mortgage or the deed without my consent or knowing?
3. If I still have claim to it in 18 years time and the flat gets sold, I assume I will not get much as I wouldn't have paid enough of the mortgage?
You may judge me and think I've gone mad but only I know what I have been going through for the sake of my daughter otherwise I'd have moved out month's ago. I'm absolutely miserable and all the constant screaming and shouting is affecting my child. I will support my daughter and pay maintenance and will even help my partner with other expenses as and when necessary once the flat gets sold.
I would be very grateful if you could please kindly share your thoughts and tell me what you make of this whole situation and what would you do if you were in the same predicament.
Many thanks.
I wonder if someone would be kind enough to advise on a mortgage query I have.
To cut a long story short my partner with whom I have a young daughter does not want to sell our flat. I want to go separate ways and move on with my life but she refuses to accept that we have any relationship issues and does not want to separate. She's in complete denial.
If you would like to read the whole story in more detail then please visit this thread http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php...
The mortgage is in both of our names but I have been paying the full monthly amount since the start over a year ago plus I pay all the household bills and shopping. It all comes out from my bank account via direct debit.
Taking her to court is going to lead nowhere as I'm confident the court will not allow a sale of the property due to the welfare of my daughter which means I will be forced out and she will get to keep the house until my daughter is 18.
I have sought legal advice which I have echoed above. Basically the lawyers can't guarantee anything and will just make money eitherway whether the flat gets sold or not.
So I don't see the point in paying thousands of pounds in legal fees to end up with nothing.
I have moved out and currently living with a friend and have my own expenses.
As I no longer reside in this property I will take my name off the council tax and all other household bills so that I'm not liable to pay for any of it.
I will also cancel the direct debit for the mortgage payments.
I know this is a bad idea as it will have a detrimental effect on my credit file but in all honesty I'm not worried as I will slowly rebuild my credit score gradually over the next 10 years.
But I'm hoping it does not come to the point where the flat will be repossessed. The main aim of doing this is so that my partner and her family see enough sense to sit down with me and discuss this like grown up adults and agree that a sale of the property is in everyone's best interest instead of going to court or having the flat repossessed.
For reference I paid 55k deposit towards the property and she paid 35k and the deed is setup as tenants in common.
My questions are:
1. If I cease to make the mortgage repayments and she (and her family) step in and continue with the payments, would I still have any rights over the property? If so would I be able to force a sale of the property in 18 years?
2. Will she be able to take my name off the mortgage or the deed without my consent or knowing?
3. If I still have claim to it in 18 years time and the flat gets sold, I assume I will not get much as I wouldn't have paid enough of the mortgage?
You may judge me and think I've gone mad but only I know what I have been going through for the sake of my daughter otherwise I'd have moved out month's ago. I'm absolutely miserable and all the constant screaming and shouting is affecting my child. I will support my daughter and pay maintenance and will even help my partner with other expenses as and when necessary once the flat gets sold.
I would be very grateful if you could please kindly share your thoughts and tell me what you make of this whole situation and what would you do if you were in the same predicament.
Many thanks.
I can't comment on the legalities of the situation but the very last thing I would do is to stop paying the mortgage.........mortgage arrears will have a huge impact on your credit file...........you may not plan to buy a property until this is resolved but you might want or need a credit card, loan, bank account, car finance, mobile phone in the future..............you also need to pass a credit score even to rent a property.............
I didn't read the other MSE thread but OP, where do you want your daughter to live? That would seem to be the main concern right now.
Unless I've missed something, by forcing a sale of property, you and your partner go separate ways, but its not clear whether you want your child to live with you, or with your former partner, who might move away from where you want to be.
Unless I've missed something, by forcing a sale of property, you and your partner go separate ways, but its not clear whether you want your child to live with you, or with your former partner, who might move away from where you want to be.
SamYusuf said:
To cut a long story short my partner with whom I have a young daughter does not want to sell our flat.
If you had a 4 bed house, I'd see your point. You want to sell it, buy a smaller house for your wife/daughter and yourself a flat. But you're in a flat now. So what's the next step for your daughter if the flat is sold? If you're wife doesn't accept it's over, then great. Move back into the flat, co parent your daughter, sleep on the couch or an airbed and live as separate a life as possible.
With regards to the marriage bit- there is a test case going through so keep an eye on the outcome http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5359249/Hi...
SamYusuf said:
Hi All
Taking her to court is going to lead nowhere as I'm confident the court will not allow a sale of the property due to the welfare of my daughter which means I will be forced out and she will get to keep the house until my daughter is 18.
I have sought legal advice which I have echoed above. Basically the lawyers can't guarantee anything and will just make money eitherway whether the flat gets sold or not.
So I don't see the point in paying thousands of pounds in legal fees to end up with nothing.
Just a couple of points.Taking her to court is going to lead nowhere as I'm confident the court will not allow a sale of the property due to the welfare of my daughter which means I will be forced out and she will get to keep the house until my daughter is 18.
I have sought legal advice which I have echoed above. Basically the lawyers can't guarantee anything and will just make money eitherway whether the flat gets sold or not.
So I don't see the point in paying thousands of pounds in legal fees to end up with nothing.
How much relationship counselling have you tried? Having young children can place incredible pressure on the parent's relationship.
Not only is it bloody hard work at this point for both parents, the stresses and strains cause powerful negative emotions which can break even the strongest marriage.
So I know the relationship in its current form feels toxic, but a professional counsellor may be able to help you both understand the issues and help you consider possible solutions. You sound like you have supportive families in that they would like you to stay together so they also may be able to help you.
After all, from your post, one of your considerations is your own financial well being. And I can guarantee you, the path you are currently embarked on is absolutely the most expensive path you could possible choose. It will cost you a huge amount of money together with a heap of stress and pain. Plus it wouldn't be ideal for your daughter either which might be good reason to pause for thought.
And the reason I quoted the specific text above is just to correct one point. You aren't ending up with nothing. You would be fulfilling the responsibilities to your daughter that you have already made.
After all, the reason the law is written the way it is, is to stop selfish people from doing what best suits them without making proper provision for their own obligations.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
If you had a 4 bed house, I'd see your point. You want to sell it, buy a smaller house for your wife/daughter and yourself a flat. But you're in a flat now. So what's the next step for your daughter if the flat is sold?
If you're wife doesn't accept it's over, then great. Move back into the flat, co parent your daughter, sleep on the couch or an airbed and live as separate a life as possible.
Bingo. From the opening post the OP does not come across well.If you're wife doesn't accept it's over, then great. Move back into the flat, co parent your daughter, sleep on the couch or an airbed and live as separate a life as possible.
It's all well and good wanting to leave and 'go your separate way'. However, why should your (ex-)partner or in particular your daughter be 'inconvenienced' because you want to sod off and do something else? Why should they have to go through the stress of moving home, because you want to leave?
You need to take a long hard look at yourself. Your daughters wellbeing is the priority here.
Nothing wrong with wanting to leave if that's what he wants to do. He has a life too. However, if you can't afford it then there arent many options.
Personally, I'd stay living in the flat as housemates because it would be cheaper and you get to see the daughter. Even if she wanted you to leave, you have every right to stay there.
Personally, I'd stay living in the flat as housemates because it would be cheaper and you get to see the daughter. Even if she wanted you to leave, you have every right to stay there.
Thanks to everyone for taking the time to reply and although you may not believe me I am truly grateful for your advice.
The reason why I don't come across well here is lack of context which I have provided in the MSE thread.
I cannot provide too much information for obvious reasons but if you guys were to hear the circumstances under which I islamically married her then you would think I'm a mug. She was islamically married to someone else not long before she married me and he was from a very decent family with a stable job. She told three different versions of their story and why they broke up. I heard one story from him (yes I tracked him down) and his story matched exactly what a member of her own family told me. Either way when someone tells you one version of a story and can't stick to it then that should send alarm bells ringing. A mug I am.
He was lucky as he had no financial ties with her or any children.
She lied about so many other things, our whole relationship was based on lies and to this day she lies obsessively and can't keep her story straight even about the smallest things.
I even have evidence of her abusing my daughter but I'm afraid to use this evidence in case the social services take her away. I don't want to separate my daughter from her mother and THAT is the main reason why I continued to live with her so that I could keep an eye on my child. I had words with her and warned her that if I find anymore signs of abuse then I will report her.
I could go back and continue to live there for the sake of my daughter but I really don't believe that's a good idea as it will give her the wrong impression. She'll believe that I'm trapped and cannot stay away and she can continue to behave how she does.
If it helps you get a picture of her family then you may not be surprised to hear that her younger two sisters also have children and were dumped by their husbands. They were both legally married in the UK.
In our last conversation I told her that if we sell the flat then I would help her find a flat to rent and would even pay some money towards the rent + the child maintenance + pay for anything else that my daughter needs, but she still refused.
She's screwed as if she loses me then no other man will come near her due to being divorced twice and now a child as well. That's the main reason why she is playing hardball and refuses to be reasonable.
She's had too many chances but the last straw was when she accused me to my friend of domestic violence when I have messages from her apologising for hitting me. She's not clever if you can't already tell and hasn't a clue of the damage she's doing.
xx99xx,
As I'm no longer paying the mortgage or any bills I have money to be able to stay in a few properties in and around London. I have many friends who own property and I'm currently living with my mate who won't let me leave and stay anywhere else. He's my best friend.
I believe I have been more than just be reasonable with her but she's not taking me seriously.
She can now deal with the banks chasing her and decide what she wants to do. If she can somehow get the money together and pay for the mortgage and bills then good on her.
I will be back in 16 years for my share but im well aware that by then I may have no stake in the property and won't get a penny. So be it I honestly don't care as long as I'm free of her.
The only issue that remains is access to my daughter for which I may need to go court.
The reason why I don't come across well here is lack of context which I have provided in the MSE thread.
I cannot provide too much information for obvious reasons but if you guys were to hear the circumstances under which I islamically married her then you would think I'm a mug. She was islamically married to someone else not long before she married me and he was from a very decent family with a stable job. She told three different versions of their story and why they broke up. I heard one story from him (yes I tracked him down) and his story matched exactly what a member of her own family told me. Either way when someone tells you one version of a story and can't stick to it then that should send alarm bells ringing. A mug I am.
He was lucky as he had no financial ties with her or any children.
She lied about so many other things, our whole relationship was based on lies and to this day she lies obsessively and can't keep her story straight even about the smallest things.
I even have evidence of her abusing my daughter but I'm afraid to use this evidence in case the social services take her away. I don't want to separate my daughter from her mother and THAT is the main reason why I continued to live with her so that I could keep an eye on my child. I had words with her and warned her that if I find anymore signs of abuse then I will report her.
I could go back and continue to live there for the sake of my daughter but I really don't believe that's a good idea as it will give her the wrong impression. She'll believe that I'm trapped and cannot stay away and she can continue to behave how she does.
If it helps you get a picture of her family then you may not be surprised to hear that her younger two sisters also have children and were dumped by their husbands. They were both legally married in the UK.
In our last conversation I told her that if we sell the flat then I would help her find a flat to rent and would even pay some money towards the rent + the child maintenance + pay for anything else that my daughter needs, but she still refused.
She's screwed as if she loses me then no other man will come near her due to being divorced twice and now a child as well. That's the main reason why she is playing hardball and refuses to be reasonable.
She's had too many chances but the last straw was when she accused me to my friend of domestic violence when I have messages from her apologising for hitting me. She's not clever if you can't already tell and hasn't a clue of the damage she's doing.
xx99xx,
As I'm no longer paying the mortgage or any bills I have money to be able to stay in a few properties in and around London. I have many friends who own property and I'm currently living with my mate who won't let me leave and stay anywhere else. He's my best friend.
I believe I have been more than just be reasonable with her but she's not taking me seriously.
She can now deal with the banks chasing her and decide what she wants to do. If she can somehow get the money together and pay for the mortgage and bills then good on her.
I will be back in 16 years for my share but im well aware that by then I may have no stake in the property and won't get a penny. So be it I honestly don't care as long as I'm free of her.
The only issue that remains is access to my daughter for which I may need to go court.
Edited by SamYusuf on Saturday 21st April 10:55
You seem to have had some very useful advice on MSE. My first question was answered there - that your Nikah was conducted in the UK and therefore is not legally enforceable as a contract of marriage in the UK.
I have a friend going through a very similar problem, but his Nikah was performed in Pakistan so is legally recognised as a marriage in the UK.
Whilst I would strongly recommend marriage counselling, as you clearly once loved her, she clearly doesn't want to separate and your daughter's well being is paramount, if you are determined to proceed then:
1) You will always retain rights over the property whilst you are on the title deeds unless there is a court order in place that says otherwise.
2) No, she cannot do this.
3) Is complex. Your rights remain the same as they are now unless a court order states otherwise.
The reality is that will have a very strong maternal instinct and will obviously not want to move out of the family home. She equally cannot afford to maintain it on her own and you will not want to see your daughter suffer, so you are somewhat stuck.
Could it be that any change in her behaviour be down to postnatal issues (even postpartum psychosis)? This is seriously worth exploring before you do anything further as these can be treated and you could get the woman you 'married' back with your daughter. I strongly urge you to look into this.
If this is what has caused her change in behaviour and you overlook it you will seriously regret it. You owe this to your daughter and her mother at the very least.
Finally, if you do decide to stay separated you will have to accept that someday your daughter will be calling another man 'daddy', not you, simply because you didn't explore a medical explanation (one which your reaction and interaction with her could have been, unknowingly to you, fuelling the problem).
I wish you the very best.
I have a friend going through a very similar problem, but his Nikah was performed in Pakistan so is legally recognised as a marriage in the UK.
Whilst I would strongly recommend marriage counselling, as you clearly once loved her, she clearly doesn't want to separate and your daughter's well being is paramount, if you are determined to proceed then:
- You are not legally married but are tenants in common on the deeds
- You have to provide child maintenance but have no requirement to provide anything to your ex
- The reality is that if you do not provide for your ex then your daughter will suffer
1) You will always retain rights over the property whilst you are on the title deeds unless there is a court order in place that says otherwise.
2) No, she cannot do this.
3) Is complex. Your rights remain the same as they are now unless a court order states otherwise.
The reality is that will have a very strong maternal instinct and will obviously not want to move out of the family home. She equally cannot afford to maintain it on her own and you will not want to see your daughter suffer, so you are somewhat stuck.
Could it be that any change in her behaviour be down to postnatal issues (even postpartum psychosis)? This is seriously worth exploring before you do anything further as these can be treated and you could get the woman you 'married' back with your daughter. I strongly urge you to look into this.
If this is what has caused her change in behaviour and you overlook it you will seriously regret it. You owe this to your daughter and her mother at the very least.
Finally, if you do decide to stay separated you will have to accept that someday your daughter will be calling another man 'daddy', not you, simply because you didn't explore a medical explanation (one which your reaction and interaction with her could have been, unknowingly to you, fuelling the problem).
I wish you the very best.
OP - I was writing my response when you last posted so missed seeing that post.
Remember the bank will come after you for mortgages payments as you are both jointly liable for all the debt (not half each).
She will be able to control access to your daughter and manipulate things to do this. She can cause great damage here.
If you have evidence she has abused your daughter in some way then it sounds like she is not exactly ideal to be living alone with her. It may be advisable for you to get the social services involved and try to get your daughter living with you in the family home (easier said than done, I know).
If you are happy to pay towards rent (and a happy to wait 16 years to get cash back from the property) why not contribute this rent money towards the mortgage? You could even draft an agreement that you get these payments back upon sale before the proceeds are split).
If it is a repayment mortgage then you could move to a cheaper interest only deal as repayment is not an issue. The payments effectively become an investment with your capital returned in full at the end of the term (point of sale) and your growth being your half of any rise in the equity.
This would be a compromise that would leave you much better off financially in the long term, whilst appeasing her to the extent she doesn't mess around with your time with your daughter.
Anything that avoids confrontation reduces the risk she will use the child for revenge.
Remember the bank will come after you for mortgages payments as you are both jointly liable for all the debt (not half each).
She will be able to control access to your daughter and manipulate things to do this. She can cause great damage here.
If you have evidence she has abused your daughter in some way then it sounds like she is not exactly ideal to be living alone with her. It may be advisable for you to get the social services involved and try to get your daughter living with you in the family home (easier said than done, I know).
If you are happy to pay towards rent (and a happy to wait 16 years to get cash back from the property) why not contribute this rent money towards the mortgage? You could even draft an agreement that you get these payments back upon sale before the proceeds are split).
If it is a repayment mortgage then you could move to a cheaper interest only deal as repayment is not an issue. The payments effectively become an investment with your capital returned in full at the end of the term (point of sale) and your growth being your half of any rise in the equity.
This would be a compromise that would leave you much better off financially in the long term, whilst appeasing her to the extent she doesn't mess around with your time with your daughter.
Anything that avoids confrontation reduces the risk she will use the child for revenge.
Collect evidence of her abusing you and your child. Then go to the police with it in order to get it on record. This should help you get the child either into your care or social care.
As you aren’t actually married it’s a case of buying her out of the flat. Seek advice but I’m 99% sure you can use the courts to force her to sell.
I’m not a lawyer, but I do wish you luck.
As you aren’t actually married it’s a case of buying her out of the flat. Seek advice but I’m 99% sure you can use the courts to force her to sell.
I’m not a lawyer, but I do wish you luck.
Chainsaw Rebuild said:
Collect evidence of her abusing you and your child. Then go to the police with it in order to get it on record. This should help you get the child either into your care or social care.
As you aren’t actually married it’s a case of buying her out of the flat. Seek advice but I’m 99% sure you can use the courts to force her to sell.
I’m not a lawyer, but I do wish you luck.
If the OP is going to do this he will need to move back in before collecting any evidence. He obviously does not want his daughter to end up in social care.As you aren’t actually married it’s a case of buying her out of the flat. Seek advice but I’m 99% sure you can use the courts to force her to sell.
I’m not a lawyer, but I do wish you luck.
It would not look good (for a responsible father) to put evidence forward having removed himself from the situation where he could stop this (I am not suggesting the OP is not a responsible father, but this point would be a quite obvious defence in court).
Ideally, this would be his best possible outcome for him. It does, however, depend on whether he is able to take on full time care for his daughter as well as his work (or can afford a nanny to assist).
Chainsaw Rebuild said:
Collect evidence of her abusing you and your child. Then go to the police with it in order to get it on record. This should help you get the child either into your care or social care.
As you aren’t actually married it’s a case of buying her out of the flat. Seek advice but I’m 99% sure you can use the courts to force her to sell.
I’m not a lawyer, but I do wish you luck.
Well done for not really reading the thread and then posting utter rubbish.As you aren’t actually married it’s a case of buying her out of the flat. Seek advice but I’m 99% sure you can use the courts to force her to sell.
I’m not a lawyer, but I do wish you luck.
Gassing Station | Finance | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff