The future of GATSOs
Discussion
So, after reading many of the posts in this section over a period of time, I thought it was about time to come up with a proposal to the GATSO debate.
In reality I can’t see these devices being removed from the roadside and scrapped (well not officially but I have seen some areas…….) Any MP who suggested this would risk a future career and they don’t do that openly – that normally happens in secret and gets into the tabloids after the fact
So what would we like done?
For me, I think there are two issues which really grate.
1. The misrepresentation that these devices are the answer to road safety issues. If road safety really was the driving force, there are better ways to achieve it.
It is time to fess up to the fact that even "if" these devices do make the roads slightly safer, their real aim is to generate income.
2. The penalty system. There has been a substantial shift in approach to speed enforcement where in days of old you’d really have to be trying to hit 12 points, nowadays it could be achieved easily with a single spirited drive.
In reality there is a minority of the population which work and pay taxes to sustain the rest of society. A major goal of the government is therefore to keep these packhorses working.
It is therefore time to remove the penalty points for speeding (and prison terms for excess speeders) and just issue the fines these could also be on an escalating scale.
It would still wind me up, but as the loss of your job/house/freedom would not be on the cards, I could/would live with that.
How would you feel if speeding was enforced in the same way as parking?
In reality I can’t see these devices being removed from the roadside and scrapped (well not officially but I have seen some areas…….) Any MP who suggested this would risk a future career and they don’t do that openly – that normally happens in secret and gets into the tabloids after the fact
So what would we like done?
For me, I think there are two issues which really grate.
1. The misrepresentation that these devices are the answer to road safety issues. If road safety really was the driving force, there are better ways to achieve it.
It is time to fess up to the fact that even "if" these devices do make the roads slightly safer, their real aim is to generate income.
2. The penalty system. There has been a substantial shift in approach to speed enforcement where in days of old you’d really have to be trying to hit 12 points, nowadays it could be achieved easily with a single spirited drive.
In reality there is a minority of the population which work and pay taxes to sustain the rest of society. A major goal of the government is therefore to keep these packhorses working.
It is therefore time to remove the penalty points for speeding (and prison terms for excess speeders) and just issue the fines these could also be on an escalating scale.
It would still wind me up, but as the loss of your job/house/freedom would not be on the cards, I could/would live with that.
How would you feel if speeding was enforced in the same way as parking?
I agree that the points system isn't appropriate as used today. 4 minor infringements = 6 month ban = cruel and unusual punishment as they would say in the USA. Especially when it could be 33 in a 30 - the width of your speedo needle in some cases.
I don't think less points for less over the limit works either - 90 on the M1 (sometimes) is less dangerous than 39 in a 30 by a school.
Don't know the answer, but fed up with driving looking at the speedo rather than the road!
I don't think less points for less over the limit works either - 90 on the M1 (sometimes) is less dangerous than 39 in a 30 by a school.
Don't know the answer, but fed up with driving looking at the speedo rather than the road!
ashes said:
I don't think less points for less over the limit works either - 90 on the M1 (sometimes) is less dangerous than 39 in a 30 by a school.
I don't think less points for less over the limit works either - 90 on the M1 (regularly) is less dangerous than 25 in a 30 by a school.
But only one will result in punishment...
ashes said:
Don't know the answer, but fed up with driving looking at the speedo rather than the road!
The answer is to have trained traffic officers out on the roads in force cracking down on unsafe driving and illegal use of motor vehicles. Saving lives like this however isn't cost effective, i.e. the amount of political capital you can make from increased traf pol is less than the amount of political capital you lose by increased spending, hence, self funding speed cameras. With cameras you have all the advantages (politically) of appearing to be doing something without having to make you unpopular by spending tax payers money.
Germany and Switzerland have system where fines are imposed for low transgressions. Points start at more severe breaches of road discipline.
They also have system whereby if you get to halfway mark on points - they send you a letter informing you you are halfway to losing licence - und even offer refresh course at this stage.
If they do not send out this letter und you accumulate points up to ban level.... ban cannot be enforced. They have to send out letters to warn you after the halfway stage und if they forget to do so... ist loop hole to escape ban.
As far as am aware ... failure to send this letter ist rare....as Germans are too efficient...
They also have system whereby if you get to halfway mark on points - they send you a letter informing you you are halfway to losing licence - und even offer refresh course at this stage.
If they do not send out this letter und you accumulate points up to ban level.... ban cannot be enforced. They have to send out letters to warn you after the halfway stage und if they forget to do so... ist loop hole to escape ban.
As far as am aware ... failure to send this letter ist rare....as Germans are too efficient...
Evocator said:
The question is what if there was no points for speeding in the same way as parking is enforced.
Would you be okay with a fine-only approach even if the fines escalated?
Not entirely, though it might be an improvement on the present system, depending on the level of fines.
To answer the original question I would just hope that Gatsos, and all their associated devices, do not have a future.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
In short, there is no future for speed cameras of any description on our roads.
Theres a lot of money at stake here in the form of fines, so the greedy partnerships arent just gonna roll over and die, that little job is up to us to accomplish, either singly or collectively, using whatever means we find morally acceptable to our inidividual selves.
If that means burning them, pulling em out the ground, or just writing letters/complaining/lobbying then so be it.
One things for certain we had best put some real efforts into ridding ourselves of this shite before we all get stifled by the loss of liberty thats surely about to be foisted on us after Labour gets voted back in by its minority of supporters.
Wake up and fight for your rights.
Theres a lot of money at stake here in the form of fines, so the greedy partnerships arent just gonna roll over and die, that little job is up to us to accomplish, either singly or collectively, using whatever means we find morally acceptable to our inidividual selves.
If that means burning them, pulling em out the ground, or just writing letters/complaining/lobbying then so be it.
One things for certain we had best put some real efforts into ridding ourselves of this shite before we all get stifled by the loss of liberty thats surely about to be foisted on us after Labour gets voted back in by its minority of supporters.
Wake up and fight for your rights.
Evocator said:
2. The penalty system. There has been a substantial shift in approach to speed enforcement where in days of old you’d really have to be trying to hit 12 points, nowadays it could be achieved easily with a single spirited drive.
The shift in attitude is amazing.
When I were a nipper there was one well known local individual who had been subject to a ban. Everyone knew who it was, funnily enough another rallyist, and being brutally honest he was an out and out nutter. But the point is that everyone locally knew that X had been banned. Now, I'm not so sure.
Regardless of where one stands on the camera debate,[1] it is true that there are some drivers who have a real resistance to learning.
Unfortunately in practice it is possible to get several prosecutions in the pipeline and a potential ban without even having had that warning shot across the bows of the first NoIP.
There have been cases where two NoIPs have been sent foroffences timed a second or so apart, and the pratnership has fought for two offences, but not got away with it. Even Mr Callaghan's outfil boasts of siting two units a short distance apart to collar the people who slow for one and then boot it on the assumption that there will be no more enforcement for a while. Again potentially two offences if both units zap the driver.
That is outwith any sensible justice system imho.
Then when you add on the inaccuracies of the system, both technological and administrative, it all just doesn't make sense.
FiF
[1] whose personal stance on this is, uproot every single static camera, disband every camera partnership, review every and I mean every speed limit, then and only then start on a sensible policy. After Tim Yeo's comments looks like I'llbe voting Tory, as if you thought anything else.
>> Edited by Flat in Fifth on Tuesday 26th April 13:36
blueyes said:
In Italy unless you're actually stopped by plod, they can't give you any points, just a fine. Something to do with the privacy act I think?
They've also increased the motorway limit to about 90mph... and accidents dropped by a massive amount last year.
...and if our speed limit were to be increased to 110 mph (which would just about keep me OK, but what about the quicker ones among you?) might we have a welcome fall in the accident rate? Hmm, nice thought.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I don't know about adverts as such, but it seems as if the authorities have been placing all the emphasis on the alleged dangers of speed, and virtually ignoring most of the other aspects of road safety for a long time now.
This has clearly been a bad mistake (though I don't expect the politicians will have the decency to admit it) and I think things will move in our favour before too long. How much change and how soon remains to be seen, but I am slowly becoming a little more optimistic.
SafeSpeed and the ABD have put a great deal of effort into this and they deserve to succeed. I truly hope they will, as everyone stands to benefit from their efforts.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
blueyes said:I just had see that for myself; found the limit is higher than that - is 150kph!
In Italy unless you're actually stopped by plod, they can't give you any points, just a fine. Something to do with the privacy act I think?
They've also increased the motorway limit to about 90mph... and accidents dropped by a massive amount last year.
Go figure.
"From 1 January 2003 some three-lane motorways with emergency lanes may have a speed limit of 93mph (150km/h)"
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