991.1 GT3 PDK “HESITATION”
Discussion
Hi all...
As some may have gathered from my previous posts, I've been thinking about moving on my GT4 for a more “track-focussed” machine (not that the GT4 isn’t VERY track capable, but I think it needs modifying somewhat in order to make the most of it’s chassis/engine capabilities...). Being concerned as to what any “mods” will do to my existing Porsche Warranty, I’m looking for a GT product that will come “track-ready” out of the box...
Anyway: having previously dismissed the 991.1 GT3 due to potential “engine issues”, it’s come back onto my radar essentially because my mate wants rid of his (he’s moving back to a TurboS, for its better practicality), and has offered me a cracking price on his low mileage GT3, rather than selling it for silly money to a dealer.... It’s an offer almost too good to turn down: essentially, if i don’t “meld” with the car— particularly the PDK box, as I’m a true manual guy at heart— then I will probably be able to sell it on quite comfortably....
Soooo..... I took it for a spin yesterday....
Wanting to use the car as much as possible like a manual, I automatically set the PDK to “manual mode”....
However, from a standing start— in 1st gear— there was a noticeable lag/hesitation between 1-2k revs, before the clutch seemed to fully “engage” and the car took off like a rocket.... It almost felt like bloody Turbo-Lag....!! Took me by surprise on a number of roundabouts, where I struggled to get off the line quick enough to make it out safely before oncoming traffic...!! A teeny bit embarrassing in a GT3....!!
Now, I’m not a PDK aficionado: I have always driven manual cars, and my current beloved GT4 obviously has a manual box. However, i did have use of a 991.1 GT3RS for the day recently, and didn’t notice the same level of “hesitation” in first gear.... I also had a PDK equipped 991.2 GTS as a hire car, and didn’t notice this aspect of the PDK box (despite it being a turbo’d car..!!).
Any thoughts from 991.1 GT3 owners....?? The car is still under Porsche Warranty, so I could always ask them to take a look before I decide whether to buy.... But, I do wonder whether I’m just missing something obvious due to my relative ignorance of PDK...?? I’ve had a quick search through past PH posts, but can’t seem to find anything on this....!!
Any thoughts much appreciated....!
As some may have gathered from my previous posts, I've been thinking about moving on my GT4 for a more “track-focussed” machine (not that the GT4 isn’t VERY track capable, but I think it needs modifying somewhat in order to make the most of it’s chassis/engine capabilities...). Being concerned as to what any “mods” will do to my existing Porsche Warranty, I’m looking for a GT product that will come “track-ready” out of the box...
Anyway: having previously dismissed the 991.1 GT3 due to potential “engine issues”, it’s come back onto my radar essentially because my mate wants rid of his (he’s moving back to a TurboS, for its better practicality), and has offered me a cracking price on his low mileage GT3, rather than selling it for silly money to a dealer.... It’s an offer almost too good to turn down: essentially, if i don’t “meld” with the car— particularly the PDK box, as I’m a true manual guy at heart— then I will probably be able to sell it on quite comfortably....
Soooo..... I took it for a spin yesterday....
Wanting to use the car as much as possible like a manual, I automatically set the PDK to “manual mode”.... However, from a standing start— in 1st gear— there was a noticeable lag/hesitation between 1-2k revs, before the clutch seemed to fully “engage” and the car took off like a rocket.... It almost felt like bloody Turbo-Lag....!! Took me by surprise on a number of roundabouts, where I struggled to get off the line quick enough to make it out safely before oncoming traffic...!! A teeny bit embarrassing in a GT3....!!
Now, I’m not a PDK aficionado: I have always driven manual cars, and my current beloved GT4 obviously has a manual box. However, i did have use of a 991.1 GT3RS for the day recently, and didn’t notice the same level of “hesitation” in first gear.... I also had a PDK equipped 991.2 GTS as a hire car, and didn’t notice this aspect of the PDK box (despite it being a turbo’d car..!!).
Any thoughts from 991.1 GT3 owners....?? The car is still under Porsche Warranty, so I could always ask them to take a look before I decide whether to buy.... But, I do wonder whether I’m just missing something obvious due to my relative ignorance of PDK...?? I’ve had a quick search through past PH posts, but can’t seem to find anything on this....!!
Any thoughts much appreciated....!
PDK S on the GT3 has no creep unlike standard PDK so maybe this has influenced your thoughts?
Slight hesitation when cold is expected but this will disappear when transmission and engine (blue light off) warmed up.
Just a note on the engine on gen 1s. The later cars came with revised engines which were substantially improved and Porsche extended the warranty recently on all to 10 years subject to the usual conditions.
Slight hesitation when cold is expected but this will disappear when transmission and engine (blue light off) warmed up.
Just a note on the engine on gen 1s. The later cars came with revised engines which were substantially improved and Porsche extended the warranty recently on all to 10 years subject to the usual conditions.
av185 said:
PDK S on the GT3 has no creep unlike standard PDK so maybe this has influenced your thoughts?
Slight hesitation when cold is expected but this will disappear when transmission and engine (blue light off) warmed up.
Just a note on the engine on gen 1s. The later cars came with revised engines which were substantially improved and Porsche extended the warranty recently on all to 10 years subject to the usual conditions.
Cheers AV: well informed as always... Slight hesitation when cold is expected but this will disappear when transmission and engine (blue light off) warmed up.
Just a note on the engine on gen 1s. The later cars came with revised engines which were substantially improved and Porsche extended the warranty recently on all to 10 years subject to the usual conditions.
It did seem to become less noticeable as the engine warmed, but was still present somewhat after 30 minutes driving time.... I note your “creep” point re the PDK-S box..... Is it likely then that the clutch is simple not engaged, and the perceived “lag” is a case of clutch engagement...?? Do I need to treat it as a true manual clutch, and lightly “feather” the throttle (ie. hold the biting point), prior to “blast off”....!!
Again: thankyou for the revised engine type details— I’ve been looking everywhere for that....!! Really appreciated mate....!
The car has a November 2014 registration, has an “F Type” engine and is classified as a “2015 build”.... No further engine replacement on file.... Seems like good news....?? Could have a “G Type” motor, I guess, which would be even better...!!
Again— thanks for the informative input.... Aside from the “hesitation” issue: bloody hell WHAT A CAR....!!
Is it only in first, if its in all gears then although its hard to know but it sounds the same as mine. I had a new gearbox under warranty last September. If you want to know more send me a PM.
Mine isn't the only one to have had this.
Regards
Fred
Mine isn't the only one to have had this.
Regards
Fred
Edited by FredBasset on Sunday 22 April 16:22
FredBasset said:
Is it only in first, if its in all gears then although its hard to know but it sounds the same as mine. I had a new gearbox under warranty last September. If you want to know more send me a PM.
Mine isn't the only one to have had this.
Regards
Fred
Cheers Fred.... It does appear to be hesitating/lagging only in first (from 1–2k revs roughly), but I’d have to spend a bit more time behind the wheel to be sure.... I’ll see if I can drive it again some time early this week, focusing more closely on the entire range of gear selection.... But my initial hunch was that it was confined to first gear, and moving off from stationary.... It literally felt as if the car moved off, hit a flat-spot, and then accelerated like a rocket....!! Very odd.... I initially thought it maybe a feature of the PDK-S box (the standard PDK box DEFINITELY doesn’t do it) but the 991.1 3RS presumably has the same PDK unit, and the “lag” wasn’t noticeable in that car.... I’ll see what comes up this week, and PM you if it does indeed appear to be a more widespread issue across the transmission.... Many thanks for your help Fred, and the offer of further guidance..!Mine isn't the only one to have had this.
Regards
Fred
Edited by FredBasset on Sunday 22 April 16:22
Swimfinz said:
Cheers AV: well informed as always...
It did seem to become less noticeable as the engine warmed, but was still present somewhat after 30 minutes driving time.... I note your “creep” point re the PDK-S box..... Is it likely then that the clutch is simple not engaged, and the perceived “lag” is a case of clutch engagement...?? Do I need to treat it as a true manual clutch, and lightly “feather” the throttle (ie. hold the biting point), prior to “blast off”....!!
Again: thankyou for the revised engine type details— I’ve been looking everywhere for that....!! Really appreciated mate....!
The car has a November 2014 registration, has an “F Type” engine and is classified as a “2015 build”.... No further engine replacement on file.... Seems like good news....?? Could have a “G Type” motor, I guess, which would be even better...!!
Again— thanks for the informative input.... Aside from the “hesitation” issue: bloody hell WHAT A CAR....!!
I would be inclined to get the car checked over by the OPC. The problem may simply be a software issue.It did seem to become less noticeable as the engine warmed, but was still present somewhat after 30 minutes driving time.... I note your “creep” point re the PDK-S box..... Is it likely then that the clutch is simple not engaged, and the perceived “lag” is a case of clutch engagement...?? Do I need to treat it as a true manual clutch, and lightly “feather” the throttle (ie. hold the biting point), prior to “blast off”....!!
Again: thankyou for the revised engine type details— I’ve been looking everywhere for that....!! Really appreciated mate....!
The car has a November 2014 registration, has an “F Type” engine and is classified as a “2015 build”.... No further engine replacement on file.... Seems like good news....?? Could have a “G Type” motor, I guess, which would be even better...!!
Again— thanks for the informative input.... Aside from the “hesitation” issue: bloody hell WHAT A CAR....!!
If the car is November 14 with an F engine it is likely it was built at the factory with the new engine in situ and did not have an engine swap at the supplying OPC who should be able to supply you with a certificate such for the car which will assist on resale should you buy it.
The fact that the gen 1 is holding up well having risen recently residually at £ retail around on the road list is testament to their sheer ability against the restricted competition and this despite the earlier engine issues is even more remarkable.
Interesting comparison between the gen 2 the engine of which has much more torque lower down and greater induction noise across the rev range. Driveline clatter from single mass flywheel on the gen 1 always grinds my gears so to dpeak
as opposed to the relative harmony of the gen 2, but some prefer the 'bag of nails' sound typical of older GT3s. Handling etc for road use at least understandably very little in it between the two gens.
Let us know how you get on.
av185 said:
If the car is November 14 with an F engine it is likely it was built at the factory with the new engine in situ and did not have an engine swap at the supplying OPC who should be able to supply you with a certificate such for the car which will assist on resale should you buy it.
Let us know how you get on.
^^^^ Right again....!! Spoke to supplying OPC yesterday: Car appears to have been built with “F Type” engine already in place, so no engine replacement as yet according to the data they have on file.Let us know how you get on.
I’ll get my friend to have the local OPC give it the “once over” this week, specifically with regards to the first gear hesitatancy at low engine speeds.... Will let you know how I get on...!!
Thanks again....!
Edit: I do LOVE that “bag of nails” sound clattering around behind me— such a mechanical sounding engine (although somewhat less rattly than the 3RS I recently drove— where I had to ask the Salesman whether he was “absolutely certain” there wasn’t something wrong with the car....!!)
Edited by Swimfinz on Sunday 22 April 20:57
Swimfinz said:
Hi all...
As some may have gathered from my previous posts, I've been thinking about moving on my GT4 for a more “track-focussed” machine (not that the GT4 isn’t VERY track capable, but I think it needs modifying somewhat in order to make the most of it’s chassis/engine capabilities...). Being concerned as to what any “mods” will do to my existing Porsche Warranty, I’m looking for a GT product that will come “track-ready” out of the box...
Anyway: having previously dismissed the 991.1 GT3 due to potential “engine issues”, it’s come back onto my radar essentially because my mate wants rid of his (he’s moving back to a TurboS, for its better practicality), and has offered me a cracking price on his low mileage GT3, rather than selling it for silly money to a dealer.... It’s an offer almost too good to turn down: essentially, if i don’t “meld” with the car— particularly the PDK box, as I’m a true manual guy at heart— then I will probably be able to sell it on quite comfortably....
Soooo..... I took it for a spin yesterday.... Wanting to use the car as much as possible like a manual, I automatically set the PDK to “manual mode”....
However, from a standing start— in 1st gear— there was a noticeable lag/hesitation between 1-2k revs, before the clutch seemed to fully “engage” and the car took off like a rocket.... It almost felt like bloody Turbo-Lag....!! Took me by surprise on a number of roundabouts, where I struggled to get off the line quick enough to make it out safely before oncoming traffic...!! A teeny bit embarrassing in a GT3....!!
Now, I’m not a PDK aficionado: I have always driven manual cars, and my current beloved GT4 obviously has a manual box. However, i did have use of a 991.1 GT3RS for the day recently, and didn’t notice the same level of “hesitation” in first gear.... I also had a PDK equipped 991.2 GTS as a hire car, and didn’t notice this aspect of the PDK box (despite it being a turbo’d car..!!).
Any thoughts from 991.1 GT3 owners....?? The car is still under Porsche Warranty, so I could always ask them to take a look before I decide whether to buy.... But, I do wonder whether I’m just missing something obvious due to my relative ignorance of PDK...?? I’ve had a quick search through past PH posts, but can’t seem to find anything on this....!!
Any thoughts much appreciated....!
The phenomenon you describe is just the fact the GT3 does not have any clutch creep mapped into the gearbox software. You will get used to it. Parallel parking a GT3 is a little challenging at first, you need to be very delicate with your right foot..!. As some may have gathered from my previous posts, I've been thinking about moving on my GT4 for a more “track-focussed” machine (not that the GT4 isn’t VERY track capable, but I think it needs modifying somewhat in order to make the most of it’s chassis/engine capabilities...). Being concerned as to what any “mods” will do to my existing Porsche Warranty, I’m looking for a GT product that will come “track-ready” out of the box...
Anyway: having previously dismissed the 991.1 GT3 due to potential “engine issues”, it’s come back onto my radar essentially because my mate wants rid of his (he’s moving back to a TurboS, for its better practicality), and has offered me a cracking price on his low mileage GT3, rather than selling it for silly money to a dealer.... It’s an offer almost too good to turn down: essentially, if i don’t “meld” with the car— particularly the PDK box, as I’m a true manual guy at heart— then I will probably be able to sell it on quite comfortably....
Soooo..... I took it for a spin yesterday....
Wanting to use the car as much as possible like a manual, I automatically set the PDK to “manual mode”.... However, from a standing start— in 1st gear— there was a noticeable lag/hesitation between 1-2k revs, before the clutch seemed to fully “engage” and the car took off like a rocket.... It almost felt like bloody Turbo-Lag....!! Took me by surprise on a number of roundabouts, where I struggled to get off the line quick enough to make it out safely before oncoming traffic...!! A teeny bit embarrassing in a GT3....!!
Now, I’m not a PDK aficionado: I have always driven manual cars, and my current beloved GT4 obviously has a manual box. However, i did have use of a 991.1 GT3RS for the day recently, and didn’t notice the same level of “hesitation” in first gear.... I also had a PDK equipped 991.2 GTS as a hire car, and didn’t notice this aspect of the PDK box (despite it being a turbo’d car..!!).
Any thoughts from 991.1 GT3 owners....?? The car is still under Porsche Warranty, so I could always ask them to take a look before I decide whether to buy.... But, I do wonder whether I’m just missing something obvious due to my relative ignorance of PDK...?? I’ve had a quick search through past PH posts, but can’t seem to find anything on this....!!
Any thoughts much appreciated....!
The 991.2 GTS PDK you describe does have clutch creep, so you will find it far more docile to drive in traffic, and when parking.
From memory, the 991.1 GT3 RS wasn't any different to a gen 1 GT3 with regard to clutch creep.
Hope this helps....
IREvans said:
The phenomenon you describe is just the fact the GT3 does not have any clutch creep mapped into the gearbox software. You will get used to it. Parallel parking a GT3 is a little challenging at first, you need to be very delicate with your right foot..!.
The 991.2 GTS PDK you describe does have clutch creep, so you will find it far more docile to drive in traffic, and when parking.
From memory, the 991.1 GT3 RS wasn't any different to a gen 1 GT3 with regard to clutch creep.
Hope this helps....
Thankyou...! I did wonder whether it was something to do with the lack of “creep” on the PDK-S box— I vaguely remember a thread regarding this on Rennlist when the 991.1 GT3 first arrived on the scene.... But there were varying views as to whether it was a “fault” or an inbuilt mechanical/software issue....!!The 991.2 GTS PDK you describe does have clutch creep, so you will find it far more docile to drive in traffic, and when parking.
From memory, the 991.1 GT3 RS wasn't any different to a gen 1 GT3 with regard to clutch creep.
Hope this helps....
I wouldn’t have been as concerned but— as you point out— the 991.1 3RS has the same transmission unit, and the 2 RSs that I’ve driven had nothing more than a very brief “pause” on throttle application in 1st gear, as opposed to a 2 second hesitation/flat-spot.... Maybe I’m being over sensitive.... I’ll see if I can get an OPC technician to come out with me in the car and get his opinion..... Will feedback the outcome, as it may be of interest to folk moving onto the GT3 from standard PDK—or manual—transmissions....!!
Swimfinz said:
Thankyou...! I did wonder whether it was something to do with the lack of “creep” on the PDK-S box— I vaguely remember a thread regarding this on Rennlist when the 991.1 GT3 first arrived on the scene.... But there were varying views as to whether it was a “fault” or an inbuilt mechanical/software issue....!!
I wouldn’t have been as concerned but— as you point out— the 991.1 3RS has the same transmission unit, and the 2 RSs that I’ve driven had nothing more than a very brief “pause” on throttle application in 1st gear, as opposed to a 2 second hesitation/flat-spot.... Maybe I’m being over sensitive.... I’ll see if I can get an OPC technician to come out with me in the car and get his opinion..... Will feedback the outcome, as it may be of interest to folk moving onto the GT3 from standard PDK—or manual—transmissions....!!
Did anything come of this Swimfinz? Wondering what Porsche said.I wouldn’t have been as concerned but— as you point out— the 991.1 3RS has the same transmission unit, and the 2 RSs that I’ve driven had nothing more than a very brief “pause” on throttle application in 1st gear, as opposed to a 2 second hesitation/flat-spot.... Maybe I’m being over sensitive.... I’ll see if I can get an OPC technician to come out with me in the car and get his opinion..... Will feedback the outcome, as it may be of interest to folk moving onto the GT3 from standard PDK—or manual—transmissions....!!
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