Interesting 4 seater for 8-12K
Discussion
Just after a little advice from those of you who have owned one or more of my short list. Basically I want a fun, fairly 'analogue' car that can replace a more practical estate (Focus Mk2) and a classic car (1275 Midget). We also have a 2.0 vtec FRV as the family / inlaw wagon, so whilst I do need 4 seats, due to wanting to take the 7 & 9 yr olds with me (which I haven't been able to do with the Midget, obviously) it doesn't necessarily have to have 4 doors. It has to be petrol, manual box, hard top, and while fast ish is good, ultimate performance figures aren't all important to me, its more about the 'feel' of the car, steering, gear change, engine etc etc.
Annual mileage will be low, 6-8k max, and insurance isn't really a consideration as I'm an old bugger.
So, on to the shortlist:
BMW 135i Coupe Man E82 (prob N55, would need to budget for chassis mods - susp, arb's, arms etc)
BMW 335i Sal or Est Man E9* (again prob N55, with similar chassis mods to above)
BMW M3 E46 Cpe Man, love these, but rust and boot floors are a concern
Ford Focus Mk2 ST Hatch, 3 or 5dr, (not the last word in handling prowess, at least not as std, but I love the noise and its quick enough, I think)
Ford Fiesta ST Mk7 (great hot hatch by all accounts, quick, great handling, practical ish, cheap ish to run, dreadful dash though, but I could live with that)
Honda Integra DC5 or DC2 if I could find a really nice one (well, its a Honda, so..., love the idea of another N/A engine, great steering, gear change by all accounts, not too max power... not that there's anything wrong with that if you're not mid 40's...)
So, what do you reckon? Have I overlooked an obvious candidate? Do I need my head examined or could one of these be motoring nirvana for about the same price as a new Hyundai i20?
Annual mileage will be low, 6-8k max, and insurance isn't really a consideration as I'm an old bugger.
So, on to the shortlist:
BMW 135i Coupe Man E82 (prob N55, would need to budget for chassis mods - susp, arb's, arms etc)
BMW 335i Sal or Est Man E9* (again prob N55, with similar chassis mods to above)
BMW M3 E46 Cpe Man, love these, but rust and boot floors are a concern
Ford Focus Mk2 ST Hatch, 3 or 5dr, (not the last word in handling prowess, at least not as std, but I love the noise and its quick enough, I think)
Ford Fiesta ST Mk7 (great hot hatch by all accounts, quick, great handling, practical ish, cheap ish to run, dreadful dash though, but I could live with that)
Honda Integra DC5 or DC2 if I could find a really nice one (well, its a Honda, so..., love the idea of another N/A engine, great steering, gear change by all accounts, not too max power... not that there's anything wrong with that if you're not mid 40's...)
So, what do you reckon? Have I overlooked an obvious candidate? Do I need my head examined or could one of these be motoring nirvana for about the same price as a new Hyundai i20?
I've owned an ST it was a great car I chose it over the sweeter handling Megane for that 5 pot engine, handling wise they're still a sweet handling car but the Megane is another step on.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
Both the 135/335i need some mods to (as you've already noted) get them to be drivers cars, but they won't be quite as special a car as the M3.
I'd also look at Monaros:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
Both the 135/335i need some mods to (as you've already noted) get them to be drivers cars, but they won't be quite as special a car as the M3.
I'd also look at Monaros:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
bertberr said:
Thanks, hadn't thought about a Monaro, will check them out. Going to look at a DC5 tomorrow morning, and possibly a Fiesta ST too, quite different cars, but both major on fun, so should be an interesting comparison.
I'd be interested in the comparison between the DC5 and the ST, both are on my shortlist too. Have fun.Well, I drove both a DC5 and an ST today, quite an interesting experience. They are both pretty impressive, but IMO for quite different reasons. The DC5 was 17 yrs old, but had obviously been well cared for by previous Japanese owners and its two or three UK owners. With just 62K on the clock with a fair amount of recent(ish) expenditure on suspension parts, it still felt quite tight to me, with no nasty knocks or squeaks over rougher roads.
It is a real sensation overload too, at least when the vtec kicks in. In terms of its raw, analogue feel, it reminded me of a slightly more comfy Caterham - lovely steering, lovely gear change, nice pedals and great driving position, though I would have preferred a reach option on the wheel to get it perhaps an inch closer, but deep dish wheel would sort this. And its obvious from the way it drives it's a light car, circa 1200kgs from memory. The other thing I noticed was how nice it felt, control wise at much more sensible speeds / revs. It managed to feel special just cruising along in 6th gear on the d/c way.
The ST was a 65 plate ST3 with 25K on the clock, but interesting didn't actually 'feel' much newer / lower mileage. Obviously it looked a lot newer / more contemporary, as you'd expect, but didn't feel noticeably tighter. And while I could get pretty comfy in the Recaros, I never really felt much of a sense of occasion when settling down into the car and firing it up. This is a plus of course too, as my non-petrol head wife could jump in and drive the kids to swimming without really having to adjust any aspect of her driving style. It was also fast, when the turbo kicks in, which is obviously much lower down than the vtec, with a nice gear change and clutch action. However, all the excitement was pretty much done by 5.5/6K, just when the DC5 is starting to get interested! Handling on my albeit fairly limited test drive, seemed very accomplished, again, as I expected based on the rave reviews.
I suppose my main concern / hang-up with the ST is, having driven numerous lower spec Fiestas as hire cars, including the impressive 1.0 ecoboost 125, is that I really didn't notice much difference from the driving seat, in terms of how the car felt / looked. Obviously the ST is far quicker on a nice twisty b-road, but in terms of the often illusive 'feel good' factor, I wasn't getting it in spades with the ST, unlike the DC5, which assaulted the senses from all angles, whether screaming towards 8K revs, or just pootling along admiring the scenery.
My main concern with the DC5 is the dreaded tin worm. This example was 17 yrs old, and whilst in great shape for the age, and feeling very good mechanically, I do worry how long it would continue to look so fresh, what with being used in all conditions and living in a sea side town... I remember my dad had a white (as was this DC5) XR4i from new in 1984, the one with funny bi-plane rear wing, and at 2.5 yrs old, it was showing various little areas of orange around the tailgate and along one of the wing seams. And owning a 74 Midget that likes to rust for fun, I'm just a little worried that I'd soon be engaged in a no win battle trying to keep the teg looking half reasonable. I know DC5's aren't as bad as DC2's in this respect, but even so... once bitten twice shy and all that.
So, just need to try an E82 now, and I'll be a better position to decide which route to take.
It is a real sensation overload too, at least when the vtec kicks in. In terms of its raw, analogue feel, it reminded me of a slightly more comfy Caterham - lovely steering, lovely gear change, nice pedals and great driving position, though I would have preferred a reach option on the wheel to get it perhaps an inch closer, but deep dish wheel would sort this. And its obvious from the way it drives it's a light car, circa 1200kgs from memory. The other thing I noticed was how nice it felt, control wise at much more sensible speeds / revs. It managed to feel special just cruising along in 6th gear on the d/c way.
The ST was a 65 plate ST3 with 25K on the clock, but interesting didn't actually 'feel' much newer / lower mileage. Obviously it looked a lot newer / more contemporary, as you'd expect, but didn't feel noticeably tighter. And while I could get pretty comfy in the Recaros, I never really felt much of a sense of occasion when settling down into the car and firing it up. This is a plus of course too, as my non-petrol head wife could jump in and drive the kids to swimming without really having to adjust any aspect of her driving style. It was also fast, when the turbo kicks in, which is obviously much lower down than the vtec, with a nice gear change and clutch action. However, all the excitement was pretty much done by 5.5/6K, just when the DC5 is starting to get interested! Handling on my albeit fairly limited test drive, seemed very accomplished, again, as I expected based on the rave reviews.
I suppose my main concern / hang-up with the ST is, having driven numerous lower spec Fiestas as hire cars, including the impressive 1.0 ecoboost 125, is that I really didn't notice much difference from the driving seat, in terms of how the car felt / looked. Obviously the ST is far quicker on a nice twisty b-road, but in terms of the often illusive 'feel good' factor, I wasn't getting it in spades with the ST, unlike the DC5, which assaulted the senses from all angles, whether screaming towards 8K revs, or just pootling along admiring the scenery.
My main concern with the DC5 is the dreaded tin worm. This example was 17 yrs old, and whilst in great shape for the age, and feeling very good mechanically, I do worry how long it would continue to look so fresh, what with being used in all conditions and living in a sea side town... I remember my dad had a white (as was this DC5) XR4i from new in 1984, the one with funny bi-plane rear wing, and at 2.5 yrs old, it was showing various little areas of orange around the tailgate and along one of the wing seams. And owning a 74 Midget that likes to rust for fun, I'm just a little worried that I'd soon be engaged in a no win battle trying to keep the teg looking half reasonable. I know DC5's aren't as bad as DC2's in this respect, but even so... once bitten twice shy and all that.
So, just need to try an E82 now, and I'll be a better position to decide which route to take.
Don't let rust scare you off the DC5, they really aren't bad compared to most jap cars of similar vintage.
their main weakness is the rear arches, and that prev owners have kept up with underseal.
My 2002 dc5 has been in the uk 11 years and only had very minor rust issues (bootlid handle, and a little spot on the bootlid and rear quarter. The arches themselves are mint.
if you get a fresh import rust won't be an issue as long as you spend out on a proper underseal job. dinitrol the underside, remove all arches and get inside there treated, and get all the cavities waxoyled.
This costs around £400, highly recommend CSK automotive in hoddesdon. Be wary of the importer just giving it a quick once over in terms of underseal, i wouldn't consider that a permanent solution.
One other thing to consider - dc5s are going up in value, you won't lose money. Mine is worth about £1500 more than i paid for it 18 months back, although i have ploughed a bit of money into it (£7k, got carried away, oops).
Safest colour is champ white (strong resale), the milano reds mostly all need paint around now if they haven't already.
Honda parts are a bit pricey but they are pretty solid cars, mine has just needed wear and tear bits replacing, nothing drastic sofar.
Also, you'd be driving a proper car...not a fiesta.
their main weakness is the rear arches, and that prev owners have kept up with underseal.
My 2002 dc5 has been in the uk 11 years and only had very minor rust issues (bootlid handle, and a little spot on the bootlid and rear quarter. The arches themselves are mint.
if you get a fresh import rust won't be an issue as long as you spend out on a proper underseal job. dinitrol the underside, remove all arches and get inside there treated, and get all the cavities waxoyled.
This costs around £400, highly recommend CSK automotive in hoddesdon. Be wary of the importer just giving it a quick once over in terms of underseal, i wouldn't consider that a permanent solution.
One other thing to consider - dc5s are going up in value, you won't lose money. Mine is worth about £1500 more than i paid for it 18 months back, although i have ploughed a bit of money into it (£7k, got carried away, oops).
Safest colour is champ white (strong resale), the milano reds mostly all need paint around now if they haven't already.
Honda parts are a bit pricey but they are pretty solid cars, mine has just needed wear and tear bits replacing, nothing drastic sofar.
Also, you'd be driving a proper car...not a fiesta.
Talking of driving a proper car OP test drive the Megane RS I really feel you (preferably one with the Recaros) need to drive one before making a decision.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
bertberr said:
Thanks for the other rec's, but I'd like non EPS and N/A if possible, what is the last Megane that had those?
The Megane has hydraulic power steering but the engine is a 2.0T as I said test drive one before writing it off, it's not still classed as one of the best drivers hot hatch for nothing.bertberr said:
True... I'll take a gander... are they the ones that suffered from oil starvation or something similar?
They are very sensitive to oil level and the quickest route to engine failure is not checking and topping up regularly when required - pretty much what 99% of the general public are like.A little more effort required than your average car and you potentially have a practical bargain on your hands...if you can put up with the fuel economy.
ZX10R NIN said:
The Megane has hydraulic power steering but the engine is a 2.0T as I said test drive one before writing it off, it's not still classed as one of the best drivers hot hatch for nothing.
That's strange, the review I read on the 250 Cup (Evo) 2010-2014 says it has an electric system... Were you referring to an earlier version, or have Evo got a little confused?!Gassing Station | Car Buying | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff