Tiguan DSG fault

[4cEvo2]

Evening all, hope I can get some meaningful advice here regarding an issue I have with the wife’s car.
It’s a 2014 Tiguan R Line 177 DSG with 15,500 miles on the clock and full VW history.
Each morning upon setting off there are two or three ‘clunks’ from the gearbox/ drivetrain. They’re quite obvious and you can even feel them sometimes as well as hear them. Took it to VW, left it with them overnight and they reported back the next day everything was fine.
Took it back a few days later and again left it overnight but this time went out with a technician in the morning and showed him the problem.
He felt it was occurring whilst in gear and not during a change up or down. Said he’d contact VW technical dept and go from there. Had a call next day to say he’d gone out and done everything the tech dept said to but it still showed up as a fault on the system so it needs a new gearbox, clutch, transfer box and mechatronic. That’ll be £5,700 please sir...
They can’t say what the problem is but if I change everything, hopefully that’ll fix it.
Anyone have any idea what the problem may be? I’m thinking it could be the mechatronic system at fault as I’m led to believe that engages the next gear depending on conditions and it always sounds like it clunks when it’s firmly in a gear.
Thanks

[Blaster72]

I'd recommend you give these chaps a call before even thinking about letting VW spend ££££ on unnecessary gearbox replacement. Talk through the symptoms and they'll give you an honest opinion. Based near Bristol but if you're not close you should still get an idea of whats wrong.

http://www.bristolgearboxcentre.com/contact-automa...

I'm not sure where you are but they are one of the best in the country and saved me a fortune when my Golf DSG box starting being a bit violent setting off.

Edited by Blaster72 on Friday 4th May 21:23

[Sheepshanks]

Sounds similar: http://www.mytiguan.com/index.php?/topic/22977-tra... dsg repair

[4cEvo2]

Thanks gents, that’s certainly given me some ammunition to go back to VW with.
Cheers

[stevieturbo]

4cEvo2 said:

Evening all, hope I can get some meaningful advice here regarding an issue I have with the wife’s car.
It’s a 2014 Tiguan R Line 177 DSG with 15,500 miles on the clock and full VW history.
Each morning upon setting off there are two or three ‘clunks’ from the gearbox/ drivetrain. They’re quite obvious and you can even feel them sometimes as well as hear them. Took it to VW, left it with them overnight and they reported back the next day everything was fine.
Took it back a few days later and again left it overnight but this time went out with a technician in the morning and showed him the problem.
He felt it was occurring whilst in gear and not during a change up or down. Said he’d contact VW technical dept and go from there. Had a call next day to say he’d gone out and done everything the tech dept said to but it still showed up as a fault on the system so it needs a new gearbox, clutch, transfer box and mechatronic. That’ll be £5,700 please sir...
They can’t say what the problem is but if I change everything, hopefully that’ll fix it.
Anyone have any idea what the problem may be? I’m thinking it could be the mechatronic system at fault as I’m led to believe that engages the next gear depending on conditions and it always sounds like it clunks when it’s firmly in a gear.
Thanks

I'm sure it's hard to describe or diagnose....but by nature, technically it is always in gear. And what you perceive as a change up/down, is switching between one clutch and the other. Not an actual gearchange as you would know it, because the actual gear change has already happened long before you actually want that gear, it just isnt engaged with drive via the other clutch yet

[4cEvo2]

Ok, I’ll rephrase it, it doesn’t happen when it changes to the preselected gear, is that any clearer, ie when it changes gear

[stevieturbo]

4cEvo2 said:

Ok, I’ll rephrase it, it doesn’t happen when it changes to the preselected gear, is that any clearer, ie when it changes gear

You're misunderstanding.

You as the driver should, would never feel the box actually selecting or changing gears. All you would ever feel is it switching from one clutch to the other because the gears have already been changed prior to that event and that does not occur at the same time.

It could be that one clutch is not fully disengaging, which would mean there is still some drive when the "other" gear is being pre-engaged or changed during driving. But if drive was fully disengaged and all was spinning freely, it could change up/down all day long and there is no reason this should ever be felt.
I'd assume there should be some useful diagnostics available for the box, clutch pressures etc ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFAtc-zOKZs

Edited by stevieturbo on Sunday 6th May 23:36

[GreenV8S]

stevieturbo said:

You as the driver should, would never feel the box actually selecting or changing gears. All you would ever feel is it switching from one clutch to the other because the gears have already been changed prior to that event and that does not occur at the same time.

I think that the OP is saying that the clunk does actually come when the next gear is selected and not when the clutches take up drive in the next gear iyswim.

[stevieturbo]

GreenV8S said:

I think that the OP is saying that the clunk does actually come when the next gear is selected and not when the clutches take up drive in the next gear iyswim.

Yes, but as already stated very clearly, the box changing gears internally should never ever be felt by the driver, but I would imagine with some diagnostics hooked up to the box you would be able to see when it is actually selecting any gear, and if any issues felt, coincide with these events. But when driving, you really would have no idea when the box is selecting any particular gear unless you can see inside the box, as it will be doing this many times depending on your driving style and what it predicts the next gear you will want.

But if drive is fully disengaged, the box could be playing tunes selecting gears up/down repeatedly and the driver would never feel this happening. The only way the driver might feel it, is if the clutch for those particular gears was not fully disengaged.

[GreenV8S]

stevieturbo said:

Yes, but as already stated very clearly, the box changing gears internally should never ever be felt by the driver

That's true if it's working correctly. Clearly something is wrong here, and the symptoms are being felt around the time the 'box would be expected to engage a new gear, so it's not a huge stretch to suppose this is what is causing the symptoms.

[stevieturbo]

GreenV8S said:

That's true if it's working correctly. Clearly something is wrong here, and the symptoms are being felt around the time the 'box would be expected to engage a new gear, so it's not a huge stretch to suppose this is what is causing the symptoms.

But when do you expect it to change gear ?

Say you've just went from 2-3 and are accelerating....4th gear is already selected in anticipation of the 3-4 shift.....if you let off, the box will shift 4-2, obviously keeping you driving in 3rd, again in anticipation of going 3-2....accelerate again and it'd change from 2-4, all while you've always been driving in 3rd gear

So all those shifts are happening all the time when driving....but you will never be able to feel them if the relevant clutch is fully disengaged.

So engaging/selecting a new gear...and engaging drive in that gear are two different things. Some live data on what is going on inside the box should be able to reveal something. I guess VCDS should offer that ? Although never had to look myself.

Or perhaps an oil change would be worth doing.....certainly cant hurt given the costs they're proposing. But some proper diagnosing is needed.

[GreenV8S]

stevieturbo said:

Say you've just went from 2-3 and are accelerating....4th gear is already selected in anticipation of the 3-4 shift.....if you let off, the box will shift 4-2, obviously keeping you driving in 3rd, again in anticipation of going 3-2....accelerate again and it'd change from 2-4, all while you've always been driving in 3rd gear

Yes, that's the behaviour I'd expect. The gearbox will be engaging gears on the declutched side of the gearbox in anticipation of the next gear change. If the 'box was working properly, it wouldn't be apparent to the driver. The OP's description suggests that the clunks are happening during this process. I suppose a dragging clutch might be one explanation, but I would have thought that would self-destruct pretty quickly unless it was only dragging part of the time. A worn / damaged bearing inside the 'box causing extra backlash might also explain it, although I would have thought that would break down and self-destruct pretty quickly too.

[guards red]

As I understand it, the Mechatronic doesn't just sit idle when the gear has been selected, it needs to maintain pressure to keep the clutches engaged.

As a minimum I would check the oil level and change it as a cheap initial repair.

VW should not be guessing, with the diagnostics plugged in they should be able to check what the clamping loads are and whats going on in real time as the gearbox throws a wobbler.

[4cEvo2]

Here’s a short clip of the problem as I probably didn’t explain it well enough
https://youtu.be/NRAd_qVhXbg

[stevieturbo]

Not really hearing much on that video ? What with speed bumps etc

Possibly a couple of light noises somewhere, could be anything really ?

[4cEvo2]

35 and 44 seconds in, it didn’t upload all the clip for the third one for some reason but they’re clear enough when you know when they are

[Sheepshanks]

Does it do one as you almost come to a stop and pick up again at the roundabout - 1 min 13 secs?

Ours - late 2015 150TDi 4Motion DSG - seems to have gone generally quite clunky in 15K miles but there's no noise like yours makes.

[4cEvo2]

I didn’t notice it at the time but yes that does sound like another one

[4cEvo2]

stevieturbo said:

Not really hearing much on that video ? What with speed bumps etc

Possibly a couple of light noises somewhere, could be anything really ?

Never mind Stevie, thanks for your input though

[Sheepshanks]

Have VW offered a contribution to the cost?

Think I'd be p/xing it, to be honest.