C.Eng - what is it's value?
Discussion
Some employers insist upon their engineer employees having chartership. Others don't seem to give a stuff provided that you have the requisite experience.
I was CEng (IMechE) but lapsed on the payments to the institute. Though I'm still in the industry and haven't strayed from engineering, they'd make me jump through all the hoops to get my chartership back. Seeings as no-one has asked me if I'm chartered for 8 years or so, I can't be bothered.
I opted out because I felt that the IMechE was directed by a bumbling crowd of old bifties who did nothing very useful - no added value to me. The only interesting bit was the magazine! I don't know if the IEE are any more useful.
In conclusion, look at it in the context of who you're going to work for. If you're going to be freelance, being able to put CEng on your CV might open upo a few more opportunities to you.
I was CEng (IMechE) but lapsed on the payments to the institute. Though I'm still in the industry and haven't strayed from engineering, they'd make me jump through all the hoops to get my chartership back. Seeings as no-one has asked me if I'm chartered for 8 years or so, I can't be bothered.
I opted out because I felt that the IMechE was directed by a bumbling crowd of old bifties who did nothing very useful - no added value to me. The only interesting bit was the magazine! I don't know if the IEE are any more useful.
In conclusion, look at it in the context of who you're going to work for. If you're going to be freelance, being able to put CEng on your CV might open upo a few more opportunities to you.
i have nearly completed my requisite for chartered engineer status, except I'm mechanical not electrical. the process is the same for all flavours of engineer.
its worth something to employers in terms of showing breadth of experience, time served and commitment to your resolve, but whether its worth anything in terms of money varies from employer to employer. for instance Lotus value it highly, and encourage their engineers to acquire it as quickly as they can.
if you need help accumulating the necessary CPD points from working in the community etc, i can help you with that by signing you up as a Science and Engineering Ambassador (SEA). theres more details on the website of the folk i work for www.setnet.org.uk
happy to help mate
drop me a line if i can help in any way, same goes for any of you.
best wishes,
Ambassador Nerv.
its worth something to employers in terms of showing breadth of experience, time served and commitment to your resolve, but whether its worth anything in terms of money varies from employer to employer. for instance Lotus value it highly, and encourage their engineers to acquire it as quickly as they can.
if you need help accumulating the necessary CPD points from working in the community etc, i can help you with that by signing you up as a Science and Engineering Ambassador (SEA). theres more details on the website of the folk i work for www.setnet.org.uk
happy to help mate
drop me a line if i can help in any way, same goes for any of you.
best wishes,
Ambassador Nerv.
id add to the above post that the IMECHE has changed a great deal in recent months (i work with em now, so thats lowered the average age at least), but your point is certainly true of a great many organisations.
additionally, the above link is a government run agency and is of course not for profit so i hope I'm not infringing on advertising rules
additionally, the above link is a government run agency and is of course not for profit so i hope I'm not infringing on advertising rules
. I was laughing because I tried to say it in a diplomatic way and you just blurted it out. good question, in truth i'm not sure.
i jumped through all the "hoops" for the IMarE (as it used to be called)(for those who don't know...its the Marine Engineers), sufficiently educated accadeeemicly, did the essay, explained job experience and interview but was told to get a job with more "responsibility", which i did. then asked them how long i needed to be in my new more "responsible" job, answer two years, OK, fine.
contacted them again after two years....and all the b###dy rules had changed, they'd now become the IMarEst or something, reapplied to them for CEng, another "matrix" and an interview, at which point i had a fall out with the interviewer, do you do emerging technologies?..er, no, do you do design? er, no. he was from a process engineering back ground...we make sure ships stay afloat. i said that they were very quick to cash the cheque...and not very quick to give anything back..end of interview. i remain a graduate member...and i probably will remain one for a long time.
currently for my position there is no requirement for CEng, and it doesn't give anymore money having it. out of the people i know who are educationally qualified, few have bothered, what does that tell you, it ain't worth the hassel. if you had to work freelance it may be an asset to the CV.
i jumped through all the "hoops" for the IMarE (as it used to be called)(for those who don't know...its the Marine Engineers), sufficiently educated accadeeemicly, did the essay, explained job experience and interview but was told to get a job with more "responsibility", which i did. then asked them how long i needed to be in my new more "responsible" job, answer two years, OK, fine.
contacted them again after two years....and all the b###dy rules had changed, they'd now become the IMarEst or something, reapplied to them for CEng, another "matrix" and an interview, at which point i had a fall out with the interviewer, do you do emerging technologies?..er, no, do you do design? er, no. he was from a process engineering back ground...we make sure ships stay afloat. i said that they were very quick to cash the cheque...and not very quick to give anything back..end of interview. i remain a graduate member...and i probably will remain one for a long time.
currently for my position there is no requirement for CEng, and it doesn't give anymore money having it. out of the people i know who are educationally qualified, few have bothered, what does that tell you, it ain't worth the hassel. if you had to work freelance it may be an asset to the CV.
I have all the academaic qualifications and have worked at very senior levels over the last 18 years, I have been told that I have the breadth and depth of experience by IMechE advisors. However, I have never bothered pursuing it simply because I can't be bothered to write up my experience and attend interviews with bumbling old codgers just to be told that I have reached the required standard. I now work freelance and have never been asked about CEng. It has never been a prerequisite for any of the jobs I have done or applied for. It really does not add any value in the Automotive industry where I work.
You will hear statistics quoted by the IMechE where they claim that a high percentage of MDs and other Directors have CEng. The suggestion is that having CEng gets you into these senior positions. The reality is that once Engineers have got into a senior role they invariably decide they will get CEng.
I hazard a guess that the CEng would not even increase your earning potential by enough to cover the yearly subscription of about £150.
Finally, unlike Doctors, Accountants and Solicitors, we Engineers do not have to be recognised by our body in order to practice our profession.
pp
You will hear statistics quoted by the IMechE where they claim that a high percentage of MDs and other Directors have CEng. The suggestion is that having CEng gets you into these senior positions. The reality is that once Engineers have got into a senior role they invariably decide they will get CEng.
I hazard a guess that the CEng would not even increase your earning potential by enough to cover the yearly subscription of about £150.
Finally, unlike Doctors, Accountants and Solicitors, we Engineers do not have to be recognised by our body in order to practice our profession.
pp
One of things that finally ticked me off with the IMechE was the CPD (continued professional development) bullshit. They were concerned that chartered engineers could move out of engineering yet hang onto their chartership, thus 'devaluing' the title of the Institute. Hence a need to complete X training modules per year to prove that you were still an engineer - even if you were still in the industry!
End of the day, you paid subscriptions, they pissed you off with silly CPD paperwork, and the ONLY benefit was being able to put CEng after your name. You only put up with that sort of crap if the employers absolutely insist that you have CEng!
Downside of having reached CEng status then letting it lapse is that to get it back, there's a 10000 word essay to write, interviews and so on to prove that you're still up to it. Oh yeah, and you have to pay the subscriptions for the years missed!
They're a waste of space, but don't listen to me, I'm a tad cynical!
End of the day, you paid subscriptions, they pissed you off with silly CPD paperwork, and the ONLY benefit was being able to put CEng after your name. You only put up with that sort of crap if the employers absolutely insist that you have CEng!
Downside of having reached CEng status then letting it lapse is that to get it back, there's a 10000 word essay to write, interviews and so on to prove that you're still up to it. Oh yeah, and you have to pay the subscriptions for the years missed!
They're a waste of space, but don't listen to me, I'm a tad cynical!
nel said:
They were concerned that chartered engineers could move out of engineering yet hang onto their chartership, thus 'devaluing' the title of the Institute.
That is so funny! The title has absolutely no value in the first place. If Engineers with CEng move out of Engineering and are successful in other areas then surely it adds to the value of CEng.
pp
The day I'm made to join the IEE is the day, I choose to leave the job, and if necassary become a bus conductor.
When I was at University a fellow of the IEE told me that I wasn't good enough to join. He told me that I'd only ever be a production engineer. He told me that I'm not the right kind of material for a research role.
I've done quite a bit now. More than enough to convince me that I have sufficient ability. The government were happy to accept me in a research role. In short I hated it.
Engineering and science are two different things. Engineers make things to a specification. Scientists discover new possibilities. The trouble is that scientists often think that the latter is superior.
The difference is, that an engineer has to cope when the requirement involves doing something that hasn't been done before, and may be proveably impossible.
The core of the IEE is science oriented, and this makes their title a euphemism. The IEEE is not that way inclined.
If the IEE want a bigger uptake then they have to change their attitude.
If you don't share my view, it's quite possible that MIEE is a useful title.
When I was at University a fellow of the IEE told me that I wasn't good enough to join. He told me that I'd only ever be a production engineer. He told me that I'm not the right kind of material for a research role.
I've done quite a bit now. More than enough to convince me that I have sufficient ability. The government were happy to accept me in a research role. In short I hated it.
Engineering and science are two different things. Engineers make things to a specification. Scientists discover new possibilities. The trouble is that scientists often think that the latter is superior.
The difference is, that an engineer has to cope when the requirement involves doing something that hasn't been done before, and may be proveably impossible.
The core of the IEE is science oriented, and this makes their title a euphemism. The IEEE is not that way inclined.
If the IEE want a bigger uptake then they have to change their attitude.
If you don't share my view, it's quite possible that MIEE is a useful title.
I am allegedly doing the CPD stuff at the moment. (as in I will fill in a few forms when I can be arsed, just not now)
The only reason I am going for C.Eng is because my employers want me to and becuase they will pay the subscriptions.
Otherwise I wouldn't bother, what exactly the IMechE do with the £150 per year is beyond me.
The only reason I am going for C.Eng is because my employers want me to and becuase they will pay the subscriptions.
Otherwise I wouldn't bother, what exactly the IMechE do with the £150 per year is beyond me.
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