DUCATI V4 Insurance, issues regarding purchase price
Discussion
I've been playing around with the various insurance comparison sites after my initial and only offer from a single insurance company quote of £8800 to cover a V4S.
For comparison if were to re-insure my S1000R for another year, dozens of companies quoting, cheapest around £250, so what's going on?
I changed the maximum mileage, 3k, to 2k to 1k, no difference, I opted in a tracker 'Bike Trac', getting somewhere but still £000's. I asked Ducati to quote, they declined. I changed the value from £23850 to £20k, ah, now the quotes are there, from £500. I rang the insurance company and asked about their quote but I asked them to change the value of the bike to £23850 not £20k. Their response 'we don't offer insurance for bikes over £20k', but that is the retail cost, it seems where a cost is over £20k the insurance market is not interested.
Does anyone have any tips or dealings with insurance firms who offer insurance on expensive bikes?
I have had one 'decent' quote in from Wickedquotes for £1k with £850 excess which on balance may be ok, but that is the only offer, the next two quotes are £1560 with £1250 excess and £8370 with £4k excess.
For comparison if were to re-insure my S1000R for another year, dozens of companies quoting, cheapest around £250, so what's going on?
I changed the maximum mileage, 3k, to 2k to 1k, no difference, I opted in a tracker 'Bike Trac', getting somewhere but still £000's. I asked Ducati to quote, they declined. I changed the value from £23850 to £20k, ah, now the quotes are there, from £500. I rang the insurance company and asked about their quote but I asked them to change the value of the bike to £23850 not £20k. Their response 'we don't offer insurance for bikes over £20k', but that is the retail cost, it seems where a cost is over £20k the insurance market is not interested.
Does anyone have any tips or dealings with insurance firms who offer insurance on expensive bikes?
I have had one 'decent' quote in from Wickedquotes for £1k with £850 excess which on balance may be ok, but that is the only offer, the next two quotes are £1560 with £1250 excess and £8370 with £4k excess.
This happens every time with a new model. I had real problems with my HP4 back when they were a new model.
However, there is a real issue starting with bikes. They used to be £9000 give or take a fiver and that was it and it was that way for nearly a decade, but in the past decade prices have rocketed and underwriters aren’t prepared for it. They’ve grudgingly gone to £20k to cover the halo Japanese bikes, but not above that. The brokers simply haven’t geared up for selling the odd policy on one of these bikes and simply don’t bother quoting.
You’re buying a real premium model bike, you shouldn’t be looking to insure it on a vanilla policy.
However, there is a real issue starting with bikes. They used to be £9000 give or take a fiver and that was it and it was that way for nearly a decade, but in the past decade prices have rocketed and underwriters aren’t prepared for it. They’ve grudgingly gone to £20k to cover the halo Japanese bikes, but not above that. The brokers simply haven’t geared up for selling the odd policy on one of these bikes and simply don’t bother quoting.
You’re buying a real premium model bike, you shouldn’t be looking to insure it on a vanilla policy.
Own brand motorcycle insurance makes me laugh.
BMW! Salesman suggested that I call when I was pretty serious about a new R1200GS.
What's that? Was the girl on the the phone's answer. Then told me that as I worked in telly they couldn't cover me.
Sale lost.
Honda! I was just about to spunk £8,000 or more on a CBR600RR. Honda Insurance were cheaper than some of the more ludicrous quotes but at £2995.
Sale lost.
I'm not young. I'm in my 50s and have never claimed. Hang on! I have. My first CBR was stolen in France.
That was 1988.
Why can't I get insurance now when it was dead easy when I was an idiot 20 year old dispatch rider.
Now I'm a safety concious father of 3 that rides like an old lady and only when the weather is OK.
BMW! Salesman suggested that I call when I was pretty serious about a new R1200GS.
What's that? Was the girl on the the phone's answer. Then told me that as I worked in telly they couldn't cover me.
Sale lost.
Honda! I was just about to spunk £8,000 or more on a CBR600RR. Honda Insurance were cheaper than some of the more ludicrous quotes but at £2995.
Sale lost.
I'm not young. I'm in my 50s and have never claimed. Hang on! I have. My first CBR was stolen in France.
That was 1988.
Why can't I get insurance now when it was dead easy when I was an idiot 20 year old dispatch rider.
Now I'm a safety concious father of 3 that rides like an old lady and only when the weather is OK.
knitware said:
Yes, I guess my question is, who are the 'real' insurance companies that cater for this sort of bike, how do folk insure the real exotic stuff?
With the exotic insurers, along with their cars. Find a decent broker and you should be looking at Zurich Pricpvage aclients, Chubb, Hiscox, Oak and other bespoke policies. You’re in the market where you shouldn’t be looking at price as your primary decision point too. Gavia said:
This happens every time with a new model. I had real problems with my HP4 back when they were a new model.
However, there is a real issue starting with bikes. They used to be £9000 give or take a fiver and that was it and it was that way for nearly a decade, but in the past decade prices have rocketed and underwriters aren’t prepared for it. They’ve grudgingly gone to £20k to cover the halo Japanese bikes, but not above that. The brokers simply haven’t geared up for selling the odd policy on one of these bikes and simply don’t bother quoting.
You’re buying a real premium model bike, you shouldn’t be looking to insure it on a vanilla policy.
My GSXR1000R was a tad over 16K. That needed a new policy as my existing underwriter had 8K as a ceiling for bikes.However, there is a real issue starting with bikes. They used to be £9000 give or take a fiver and that was it and it was that way for nearly a decade, but in the past decade prices have rocketed and underwriters aren’t prepared for it. They’ve grudgingly gone to £20k to cover the halo Japanese bikes, but not above that. The brokers simply haven’t geared up for selling the odd policy on one of these bikes and simply don’t bother quoting.
You’re buying a real premium model bike, you shouldn’t be looking to insure it on a vanilla policy.
I've since added some parts (exhaust, BST wheels,etc) that would take the 16 to 21.
What implications does that have?
cmaguire said:
My GSXR1000R was a tad over 16K. That needed a new policy as my existing underwriter had 8K as a ceiling for bikes.
I've since added some parts (exhaust, BST wheels,etc) that would take the 16 to 21.
What implications does that have?
No idea, you’ve added a load of modifications which is very different to buying a brand new bike for £21k. I've since added some parts (exhaust, BST wheels,etc) that would take the 16 to 21.
What implications does that have?
Gavia said:
No idea, you’ve added a load of modifications which is very different to buying a brand new bike for £21k.
I guess I was thinking mainly about the total loss scenario as all the parts were effectively added to a nearly new bike.Currently I haven't declared any of them as insurance hasn't come up for renewal (perhaps I should have called them, perhaps not, I've never read the booklet). When it does in a couple of months I'll declare them and see what happens. As it stands, with a claim now I would just expect a payout as a standard bike.
cmaguire said:
I guess I was thinking mainly about the total loss scenario as all the parts were effectively added to a nearly new bike.
Currently I haven't declared any of them as insurance hasn't come up for renewal (perhaps I should have called them, perhaps not, I've never read the booklet). When it does in a couple of months I'll declare them and see what happens. As it stands, with a claim now I would just expect a payout as a standard bike.
If you’ve not declared them then pray you don’t crash, as your insurer won’t be paying out a penny. Currently I haven't declared any of them as insurance hasn't come up for renewal (perhaps I should have called them, perhaps not, I've never read the booklet). When it does in a couple of months I'll declare them and see what happens. As it stands, with a claim now I would just expect a payout as a standard bike.
Esceptico said:
Surprised that Ducati wouldn’t insure.
I'm not, a few years back I called 'Ducati' insurance re. insuring my 916, declared the various mods and they acted surprised that anyone had modified a Ducati? Whilst they did offer cover, it was a silly price, they also said they didn't have any breakdown/recovery cover, rather to join the AA/RAC etc.
They advised me to go to Carole Nash...
catso said:
Esceptico said:
Surprised that Ducati wouldn’t insure.
I'm not, a few years back I called 'Ducati' insurance re. insuring my 916, declared the various mods and they acted surprised that anyone had modified a Ducati? Whilst they did offer cover, it was a silly price, they also said they didn't have any breakdown/recovery cover, rather to join the AA/RAC etc.
They advised me to go to Carole Nash...
In this case Ducati Insurance is a product sold by Sky Insurance Group (nothing to do with Sky TV). You get their standard product at a slightly dearer price, so that they can pay Ducati a commission for using their name. Have a look at any car or bike manufacturer product amd you’ll see what I’m saying.
Also, it’s sometimes done with famous names, such as the Niall Mackenzie / Neil Hodgson insurance company that was launched recently. It’s just a white label Autonet product.
I went to buy an 899 years ago when they came out, I couldn't insure it for less than £2,500. Most wouldn't even quote me unless it was in a brick building.
A new GSXR-750 at the time was ~£350 /year FC. Obviously purchase price was a few grand less, but nearly ten times less to insure seemed obscene.
It's certainly odd at first glance, and definitely frustrating, but as Gavia has explained you can see how it happens.
An explanation and a justification are of course not the same thing however.
A new GSXR-750 at the time was ~£350 /year FC. Obviously purchase price was a few grand less, but nearly ten times less to insure seemed obscene.
It's certainly odd at first glance, and definitely frustrating, but as Gavia has explained you can see how it happens.
An explanation and a justification are of course not the same thing however.
Gavia said:
I’m not sure what you think Ducati Insurance, or for that matter any manufacturer branded insurance is. The manufacturer doesn’t sell, underwrite, or have much say in the product. It’s simply a standard product sold by a broker with Ducati branding all over it. It’s called white labelling.
In this case Ducati Insurance is a product sold by Sky Insurance Group (nothing to do with Sky TV). You get their standard product at a slightly dearer price, so that they can pay Ducati a commission for using their name. Have a look at any car or bike manufacturer product amd you’ll see what I’m saying.
Also, it’s sometimes done with famous names, such as the Niall Mackenzie / Neil Hodgson insurance company that was launched recently. It’s just a white label Autonet product.
I realise they're not owned by Ducati but by using the name I would have expected them to have a bit more knowledge and offer a product that suited owners of the brand.In this case Ducati Insurance is a product sold by Sky Insurance Group (nothing to do with Sky TV). You get their standard product at a slightly dearer price, so that they can pay Ducati a commission for using their name. Have a look at any car or bike manufacturer product amd you’ll see what I’m saying.
Also, it’s sometimes done with famous names, such as the Niall Mackenzie / Neil Hodgson insurance company that was launched recently. It’s just a white label Autonet product.
I guess they're just taking the piss, much like buying parts on ebay where a chain, listed for a Ducati is more expensive than the exact same chain but listed for a Honda...
Prof Prolapse said:
I went to buy an 899 years ago when they came out, I couldn't insure it for less than £2,500. Most wouldn't even quote me unless it was in a brick building.
A new GSXR-750 at the time was ~£350 /year FC. Obviously purchase price was a few grand less, but nearly ten times less to insure seemed obscene.
It's certainly odd at first glance, and definitely frustrating, but as Gavia has explained you can see how it happens.
An explanation and a justification are of course not the same thing however.
The explanation does justify most things with insurance, it’s just that people don’t like reality so object to it. A new GSXR-750 at the time was ~£350 /year FC. Obviously purchase price was a few grand less, but nearly ten times less to insure seemed obscene.
It's certainly odd at first glance, and definitely frustrating, but as Gavia has explained you can see how it happens.
An explanation and a justification are of course not the same thing however.
If you’re given a brand new vehicle to insure that costs a lot more than any other vehicle you’ve ever insured would you be willing to accept that risk, especially when your market is 2-10 year old bikes valued between £2000 and £12000?
Gavia said:
cmaguire said:
I guess I was thinking mainly about the total loss scenario as all the parts were effectively added to a nearly new bike.
Currently I haven't declared any of them as insurance hasn't come up for renewal (perhaps I should have called them, perhaps not, I've never read the booklet). When it does in a couple of months I'll declare them and see what happens. As it stands, with a claim now I would just expect a payout as a standard bike.
If you’ve not declared them then pray you don’t crash, as your insurer won’t be paying out a penny. Currently I haven't declared any of them as insurance hasn't come up for renewal (perhaps I should have called them, perhaps not, I've never read the booklet). When it does in a couple of months I'll declare them and see what happens. As it stands, with a claim now I would just expect a payout as a standard bike.
Do you notify each time you modify an item, or as soon as you get a conviction like an sp30?
None of the mods are performance enhancing in any real sense, their most obvious effect is adding to the 'nickability'. But even then the person nicking would need some specific knowledge. Most people wouldn't even notice the wheels for example.
Genuine question, not arguing if it looks like it (I'm not sitting in a corner with the other children from BB yet)
Edited by cmaguire on Monday 14th May 10:57
Gavia said:
This happens every time with a new model. I had real problems with my HP4 back when they were a new model.
I had the same problem with my SP. Everywhere was quoting >£2k but finally managed to get a reasonable price with BeMoto. Renewed this year for £420 (multibike with the SP and Africa Twin).Gassing Station | Biker Banter | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff