Technically skilled, no people skills; Opportunity?
Discussion
I have a friend with a great skill set (photography and video). He has been trying on and off for years to get his business off the ground. This hasn't been successful as, by his own admission, he doesn't have the people skills or confidence to pick up the phone or chase leads. I have seen him in some of these situation and he seems to shut down. He has had a few jobs. All of them could have led to follow on work but he hasn't chased them down. Interestingly, once he is on the job he provides a good service, product and the customer is happy. I have seen his work and it is excellent.
Would it be mad for me to offer myself up as a 'partner'. Essentially I run the business side, something I'm familiar with, and he undertakes the technical work? I would follow leads, look after the business development and customer care, manage the diary etc. He would attend the jobs and undertake the technical side. He already owns all of the thousands of pounds of equipment which is essentially sat idle. I have other interests, this would be a side project for me only. He has a part time, flexible job.
Would it be mad for me to offer myself up as a 'partner'. Essentially I run the business side, something I'm familiar with, and he undertakes the technical work? I would follow leads, look after the business development and customer care, manage the diary etc. He would attend the jobs and undertake the technical side. He already owns all of the thousands of pounds of equipment which is essentially sat idle. I have other interests, this would be a side project for me only. He has a part time, flexible job.
I think its a good idea too.
I've a friend of mine is a car body man. Absolutely brilliant. Doesnt advertise, doesnt do social media, interpersonal skills of a bog rat until you get to know him, so he puts a lot of people off up front.
I'd thought of doing similar to you which is to approach him RE: a partnership agreement - front it, give it a professional image and social media presence, advertise, etc.
Must be an opportunity there for you IF you can get an agreement hammered out with him.
I've a friend of mine is a car body man. Absolutely brilliant. Doesnt advertise, doesnt do social media, interpersonal skills of a bog rat until you get to know him, so he puts a lot of people off up front.
I'd thought of doing similar to you which is to approach him RE: a partnership agreement - front it, give it a professional image and social media presence, advertise, etc.
Must be an opportunity there for you IF you can get an agreement hammered out with him.
AdviceHunter said:
I have a friend with a great skill set (photography and video). He has been trying on and off for years to get his business off the ground. This hasn't been successful as, by his own admission, he doesn't have the people skills or confidence to pick up the phone or chase leads. I have seen him in some of these situation and he seems to shut down. He has had a few jobs. All of them could have led to follow on work but he hasn't chased them down. Interestingly, once he is on the job he provides a good service, product and the customer is happy. I have seen his work and it is excellent.
Would it be mad for me to offer myself up as a 'partner'. Essentially I run the business side, something I'm familiar with, and he undertakes the technical work? I would follow leads, look after the business development and customer care, manage the diary etc. He would attend the jobs and undertake the technical side. He already owns all of the thousands of pounds of equipment which is essentially sat idle. I have other interests, this would be a side project for me only. He has a part time, flexible job.
If you think you have the time, experience and skills to properly market this type of business then I would do the following;Would it be mad for me to offer myself up as a 'partner'. Essentially I run the business side, something I'm familiar with, and he undertakes the technical work? I would follow leads, look after the business development and customer care, manage the diary etc. He would attend the jobs and undertake the technical side. He already owns all of the thousands of pounds of equipment which is essentially sat idle. I have other interests, this would be a side project for me only. He has a part time, flexible job.
i) Agree a set of fees your friend will charge you for his services
ii) Start a business which you run on your own to market these services
iii) He may also get leads from his own website. He could sell these to you for an agreed price (or he may just give them to you). Then if you convert the enquiry into an order he bills you for his time at the agreed rate.
Using this approach avoids many of the possible issues as to who is added what value. In reality there are a lot of talented people who are good with a camera. Marketing and selling these services is the (much) harder bit.
Also you could in theory offer a broader range of services like a production company might offer. This in turn could open up other opportunities.
Alternatively you could simply act as his agent, taking a set fee in return for arranging his bookings. But this might restrict the scope of the business when you come up against the likely questions e.g. who pays for marketing, new websites etc etc.
I would make one observation here (since I have a fair experience of working with and hiring photographers). Photographers without people skills generally don't do very well. Not because they can't chase leads, but because the technical side is only really half the problem.
The money in photography is usually to be made in taking pictures of people, who are emotional beings. A great photographer will build a rapport with the subject(s) and - like a good film Director - get a better "performance" from them.
So you need to look at photography/video subjects for which people skills are not required (buildings, landscape, say), or where being invisible is handy (war photography), or find another way of plugging that void. Which might entail you being the "front man" for the whole enterprise, at all times. But is there enough margin in it for that?
Sadly photographic ability, whilst definitely a skill to be learned, is nonetheless something of a commodity, whilst the financial barrier to entry (kit) is much lower than once it was.
I'd tend to think very carefully about whether there was actually enough "surplus value" in your friend's skillset (apologies to Marx for my appropriation of the term) to make it worthwhile your fronting it.
Otherwise, the general idea - salesperson, technical person - is well-trodden and can be profitable - just look at Jobs and Woz at Apple...
The money in photography is usually to be made in taking pictures of people, who are emotional beings. A great photographer will build a rapport with the subject(s) and - like a good film Director - get a better "performance" from them.
So you need to look at photography/video subjects for which people skills are not required (buildings, landscape, say), or where being invisible is handy (war photography), or find another way of plugging that void. Which might entail you being the "front man" for the whole enterprise, at all times. But is there enough margin in it for that?
Sadly photographic ability, whilst definitely a skill to be learned, is nonetheless something of a commodity, whilst the financial barrier to entry (kit) is much lower than once it was.
I'd tend to think very carefully about whether there was actually enough "surplus value" in your friend's skillset (apologies to Marx for my appropriation of the term) to make it worthwhile your fronting it.
Otherwise, the general idea - salesperson, technical person - is well-trodden and can be profitable - just look at Jobs and Woz at Apple...
Thanks for the responses everyone. I have slept on it and have considered all the feedback given. I think the way I would like to approach it is as follows:
- He already has an established business with insurances, all required equipment and a very good (though under trafficked) website. This will all remain.
- I will attempt to generate leads through my presence in a specific sector which he does not have easy access to. I feel there is a gap in the market here. I would be essentially taking an agent role. I will receive a commission for the leads I win. He is free to pursue his own leads too and I will receive no commission for these. I imagine he won't do much of this, based on history.
- He will remain responsible for equipment and insurances, as he is currently. There would be no material increased cost to him.
In short, everything stays the same for him as he is currently running it, apart from he might have extra commissions thrown his way. I would be an agent rather than a 'partner'. I will discuss it with him in detail to see if this would be a good match.
As for the commission rate, what is realistic and fair? 20% of the total commission cost, including on all future work from that client? 25% of the total commission cost with 15% for any future work. Realistically a one-off commission would net about £2,000. Any lower and I'll struggle to make it pay for my time.
Views?
- He already has an established business with insurances, all required equipment and a very good (though under trafficked) website. This will all remain.
- I will attempt to generate leads through my presence in a specific sector which he does not have easy access to. I feel there is a gap in the market here. I would be essentially taking an agent role. I will receive a commission for the leads I win. He is free to pursue his own leads too and I will receive no commission for these. I imagine he won't do much of this, based on history.
- He will remain responsible for equipment and insurances, as he is currently. There would be no material increased cost to him.
In short, everything stays the same for him as he is currently running it, apart from he might have extra commissions thrown his way. I would be an agent rather than a 'partner'. I will discuss it with him in detail to see if this would be a good match.
As for the commission rate, what is realistic and fair? 20% of the total commission cost, including on all future work from that client? 25% of the total commission cost with 15% for any future work. Realistically a one-off commission would net about £2,000. Any lower and I'll struggle to make it pay for my time.
Views?
Bearing in mind you are going to get your own leads and will win your own business, your friend is effectively acting as a third party contractor for you.
On that basis, I would refer back to my earlier suggestion. Agree a set of prices with him for his range of services. Then apply your own mark up (which may increase or decrease depending upon the size of the client and what services they need).
This is much simpler, offers more flexibility and has the potential to cause fewer arguments in the long term when you consider all of the possible scenarios which might arise. At least, that is my view
On that basis, I would refer back to my earlier suggestion. Agree a set of prices with him for his range of services. Then apply your own mark up (which may increase or decrease depending upon the size of the client and what services they need).
This is much simpler, offers more flexibility and has the potential to cause fewer arguments in the long term when you consider all of the possible scenarios which might arise. At least, that is my view
while I do think this can work, as others have referred to:
- photography is very competitive with a low barrier to entry
- there is not a lot of profit in jobs, so it is probable that adding in a substantial overhead in your costs will make the job uncompetitive - plenty of professionals who have the skills to gain business and do the photography meaning fewer people needing to share the profit
- there are very few really professional photography businesses, ie running as a commercial operation, most photographers run as lifestyle businesses
- I have been a pro photographer for many years, and have mentored and trained other pros, esp. in how to run a business - world-wide, and am still part of NPS, it has become increasingly difficult to run a commercial photography business
personally, I wouldn't do it...
- photography is very competitive with a low barrier to entry
- there is not a lot of profit in jobs, so it is probable that adding in a substantial overhead in your costs will make the job uncompetitive - plenty of professionals who have the skills to gain business and do the photography meaning fewer people needing to share the profit
- there are very few really professional photography businesses, ie running as a commercial operation, most photographers run as lifestyle businesses
- I have been a pro photographer for many years, and have mentored and trained other pros, esp. in how to run a business - world-wide, and am still part of NPS, it has become increasingly difficult to run a commercial photography business
personally, I wouldn't do it...
EddieSteadyGo said:
Using this approach avoids many of the possible issues as to who is added what value. In reality there are a lot of talented people who are good with a camera. Marketing and selling these services is the (much) harder bit.
100% this.Photographers are ten a penny. Photographers with good business skills aren't.
It'd cost next to nothing to set up yourself and use him at a fixed rate for the tech bit. Much less messy than taking part of his business, arguing about commission/future investment or having the resentment which may arise from you making more than him out of 'his' 'business'.
I wouldn't dream of going into business with a friend, never mind 'muscling in' in at a later stage, however well intentioned. Recipe for a fall out.
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