Discussion
Has anyone on here been involved in buying a pub recently? Ideally a Community Pub purchase?
To try and put some context to my question...
Our village pub is For Sale and as a community we are interested in buying it. The current owners value it at somewhere around 400k +/- 50k. There is repair work which needs to be carried out - the roof (thatched) is leaking and needs replacing - I don't know when it was last done but it looked like it needed replacing when we moved here - a mere 2 1/2 years ago.
It is a Grade II listed building and is a Village Asset (or whatever the term is).
The particulars are here : https://www.fleurets.com/properties/la-721522/pubs... Although the photos make it look a lot better than it really is - as certain items are no longer there, for instance the pool table... It's empty now and closed.
We've got a large amount of information but if anyone can share or PM me their experience of such a matter it may well help us to avoid any pitfalls.
We've been in touch with CAMRA, the Plunkett Foundation and Heritage England or similar.
The pub is a solid building, but it does need some care and attention. At a guess it (ultimately) needs 150k spent on it. So we could be looking at 600k all in.
The kitchen is a complete state. Either the previous tenants let it slip and out of use or apparently as water was leaking because of the roof they had to stop preparing and serving food. The previous tenants apparently made a low ball bid which was turned down by the current owners. The current owners are Wellington who seem to own about 850 pubs in the UK.
As an aside my thoughts are that it would be a viable business if... A) it sold decent beer or at least just a decent pint B) decent food - nothing fancy but used good locally sourced produce C) At the very least it was cleaned and painted + carpets.. D) Roof replaced. E) Some of the (there are 5 units) overnight accommodation was made available to be used as intended F) Made family friendly - there's not much decent outside space at the moment
There are drinkers in the village, surrounding villages and passing trade. Villagers seem willing to drive to other 'nicer' pubs nearby - so the appetite (pardon the pun) is there.
Of course as with all these things almost everyone has a view on what makes a good pub and what they would like the pub to offer.
Over the past 2 years it has had a number of different tenants in (3 or 4), who have either started with a lot of good intentions or just started off badly and then moved on.
Apparently some monies were paid before the previous long term tenants vacated (about 2 years ago) which might be 60k to pay for repairs to the roof etc... this money is still 'there' but I guess the current owners aren't going to give it to anyone unless they want to be a tenant as opposed to an owner.
To try and put some context to my question...
Our village pub is For Sale and as a community we are interested in buying it. The current owners value it at somewhere around 400k +/- 50k. There is repair work which needs to be carried out - the roof (thatched) is leaking and needs replacing - I don't know when it was last done but it looked like it needed replacing when we moved here - a mere 2 1/2 years ago.
It is a Grade II listed building and is a Village Asset (or whatever the term is).
The particulars are here : https://www.fleurets.com/properties/la-721522/pubs... Although the photos make it look a lot better than it really is - as certain items are no longer there, for instance the pool table... It's empty now and closed.
We've got a large amount of information but if anyone can share or PM me their experience of such a matter it may well help us to avoid any pitfalls.
We've been in touch with CAMRA, the Plunkett Foundation and Heritage England or similar.
The pub is a solid building, but it does need some care and attention. At a guess it (ultimately) needs 150k spent on it. So we could be looking at 600k all in.
The kitchen is a complete state. Either the previous tenants let it slip and out of use or apparently as water was leaking because of the roof they had to stop preparing and serving food. The previous tenants apparently made a low ball bid which was turned down by the current owners. The current owners are Wellington who seem to own about 850 pubs in the UK.
As an aside my thoughts are that it would be a viable business if... A) it sold decent beer or at least just a decent pint B) decent food - nothing fancy but used good locally sourced produce C) At the very least it was cleaned and painted + carpets.. D) Roof replaced. E) Some of the (there are 5 units) overnight accommodation was made available to be used as intended F) Made family friendly - there's not much decent outside space at the moment
There are drinkers in the village, surrounding villages and passing trade. Villagers seem willing to drive to other 'nicer' pubs nearby - so the appetite (pardon the pun) is there.
Of course as with all these things almost everyone has a view on what makes a good pub and what they would like the pub to offer.
Over the past 2 years it has had a number of different tenants in (3 or 4), who have either started with a lot of good intentions or just started off badly and then moved on.
Apparently some monies were paid before the previous long term tenants vacated (about 2 years ago) which might be 60k to pay for repairs to the roof etc... this money is still 'there' but I guess the current owners aren't going to give it to anyone unless they want to be a tenant as opposed to an owner.
Good luck! I was involved in planning such a scheme which wasn't necessary in the end. You appear to have got further than we needed to.
However, I suggest you get in touch with the Drovers Arms in Gussage All Saints in Dorset, ask if they can pit you in touch with Sally Marlow.
They made it work.
http://www.droversinngussage.co.uk
However, I suggest you get in touch with the Drovers Arms in Gussage All Saints in Dorset, ask if they can pit you in touch with Sally Marlow.
They made it work.
http://www.droversinngussage.co.uk
Our village pub went through the same some 7 / 8 years ago. Once it had closed for the 3rd time in as many years, the village formed a consortium and took over the lease with a view to, ultimately, buying the freehold.
In short, it failed rapidly and disastrously and, to a person, everyone who had invested lost an awful lot of money. They found that, whilst they had a regular crowd of drinkers, they just couldn’t lift out of the “village locals” mentality and tap into the wealthier parts of the local community and diversify into offering good food to attract families.
Fortunately, they closed it and the freehold was taken over by a fantastic couple about 5 years ago who got busy with the Farrow and Ball, created a good menu and managed to secure decent deals with the local breweries. As a result, the place is doing well. It’s still quiet during the week but is heaving on Thursday - Sunday lunchtime.
In short, it failed rapidly and disastrously and, to a person, everyone who had invested lost an awful lot of money. They found that, whilst they had a regular crowd of drinkers, they just couldn’t lift out of the “village locals” mentality and tap into the wealthier parts of the local community and diversify into offering good food to attract families.
Fortunately, they closed it and the freehold was taken over by a fantastic couple about 5 years ago who got busy with the Farrow and Ball, created a good menu and managed to secure decent deals with the local breweries. As a result, the place is doing well. It’s still quiet during the week but is heaving on Thursday - Sunday lunchtime.
singlecoil said:
toastyhamster said:
Needs a login to view pub images on the fleurets site.
Indeed. OP could just say which pub it is, I expect there will be plenty of info available elsewhere.It is indeed The Swan Inn, in Grendon Underwood. The village lies between Bicester and Aylesbury in North Bucks.
Thanks for all the advice so far. We're still in early stages - I strongly suspect someone else will make an offer before we do - which is fine as long as it stays as a pub.
Edited by eps on Wednesday 16th May 23:15
eps said:
Sorry - 'forgot' that I'd already registered etc.. It's been a long day slogging through some GDPR stuff for a client...
It is indeed The Swan Inn, in Grendon Underwood. The village lies between Bicester and Aylesbury in North Bucks.
Thanks for all the advice so far. We're still in early stages - I strongly suspect someone else will make an offer before we do - which is fine as long as it stays as a pub.
That's the purpose of the Asset of Community value thing. It makes it much harder to change use. Plus community has to be given chance to buy it.It is indeed The Swan Inn, in Grendon Underwood. The village lies between Bicester and Aylesbury in North Bucks.
Thanks for all the advice so far. We're still in early stages - I strongly suspect someone else will make an offer before we do - which is fine as long as it stays as a pub.
Edited by eps on Wednesday 16th May 23:15
I live just down the road in Westcott, noticed the Swan was up.
Some friends in the cycle club managed the purchase of their village pub on behalf of the village, the Abingdon Arms, Beckley near Oxford. I can put you in touch, I'm sure they would be willing to give a few pointers from their experience which appears to be pretty successful around 2 years in now.
Edited to add, the pub in Cuxham, near Watlington where I work was also bought by the village and I believe it's going OK, may be worth popping in for a pint and a chat with them too.
Some friends in the cycle club managed the purchase of their village pub on behalf of the village, the Abingdon Arms, Beckley near Oxford. I can put you in touch, I'm sure they would be willing to give a few pointers from their experience which appears to be pretty successful around 2 years in now.
Edited to add, the pub in Cuxham, near Watlington where I work was also bought by the village and I believe it's going OK, may be worth popping in for a pint and a chat with them too.
The challenge with a community buying it is that sometimes everyone can expect someone else to do things and in the end a small number do 99%.
Pubs seem to survive based on their food, not their beer mostly so you might need to think the basic food thing through.
Plenty of ways to drive traffic. Our local is a big pub and its rammed all the time because it has sports screens, live music, decent food (nothing special) and the landlords have all been friendly and communal. You could do so much to drive people to it too.
Pubs seem to survive based on their food, not their beer mostly so you might need to think the basic food thing through.
Plenty of ways to drive traffic. Our local is a big pub and its rammed all the time because it has sports screens, live music, decent food (nothing special) and the landlords have all been friendly and communal. You could do so much to drive people to it too.
My local pub did this about 8 years ago (I wish I had known at the time) and is an absolutely brilliant pub, and has won best pub in greater London 6 times in a row.
Have a look at there website www.hopecarshalton.co.uk
They even bought another pub the other year, so it just proves if you get it right there is money to be made in the pub business.
Have a look at there website www.hopecarshalton.co.uk
They even bought another pub the other year, so it just proves if you get it right there is money to be made in the pub business.
PGM said:
I live just down the road in Westcott, noticed the Swan was up.
Some friends in the cycle club managed the purchase of their village pub on behalf of the village, the Abingdon Arms, Beckley near Oxford. I can put you in touch, I'm sure they would be willing to give a few pointers from their experience which appears to be pretty successful around 2 years in now.
Edited to add, the pub in Cuxham, near Watlington where I work was also bought by the village and I believe it's going OK, may be worth popping in for a pint and a chat with them too.
Cheers, I think our group has already been in touch with the Abingdon Arms, but I'll check..Some friends in the cycle club managed the purchase of their village pub on behalf of the village, the Abingdon Arms, Beckley near Oxford. I can put you in touch, I'm sure they would be willing to give a few pointers from their experience which appears to be pretty successful around 2 years in now.
Edited to add, the pub in Cuxham, near Watlington where I work was also bought by the village and I believe it's going OK, may be worth popping in for a pint and a chat with them too.
So...... thought I'd come back here and post an update.
Our pub is still closed. We've been working away and have formed a Mutual Society and are launching a Share Offer this coming weekend!
If anyone is in the area please come along to Grendon Underwood Village Hall, Friday evening from 5pm to 10pm and 2pm to 11pm. Find me and mention PH and I'll even buy you a beer (actual beer tokens not virtual ones!!) - first 5 PHers only (just in case). I will be there on Friday and part of Saturday - 5pm or maybe slightly later as I've got another charity 'do' to go to in the evening which was a long standing arrangement.
Locally produced beers (and a lager), with a hog roast on Saturday and a Barbecue following on from that. Live Music as well.
We will be launching the share offer on crowdfunder...! Hopefully with SITR Advance Assurance in place.
Still some way to go but hopefully everything will start to fall in to place.
Phil
Our pub is still closed. We've been working away and have formed a Mutual Society and are launching a Share Offer this coming weekend!
If anyone is in the area please come along to Grendon Underwood Village Hall, Friday evening from 5pm to 10pm and 2pm to 11pm. Find me and mention PH and I'll even buy you a beer (actual beer tokens not virtual ones!!) - first 5 PHers only (just in case). I will be there on Friday and part of Saturday - 5pm or maybe slightly later as I've got another charity 'do' to go to in the evening which was a long standing arrangement.
Locally produced beers (and a lager), with a hog roast on Saturday and a Barbecue following on from that. Live Music as well.
We will be launching the share offer on crowdfunder...! Hopefully with SITR Advance Assurance in place.
Still some way to go but hopefully everything will start to fall in to place.
Phil
Our Beer Festival was a great success! I'm not so sure the message about investing in the pub was as successful....
If anyone here is interested or can give some feedback that would be great!
https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/grendon-underwood---...
If anyone here is interested or can give some feedback that would be great!
https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/grendon-underwood---...
Gassing Station | Business | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff