An offence to block the view of speed camera van?
Discussion
Is it an offence to intentionally obstruct the view of a speed camera van operator and therefore stop them catching speeding drivers?
I've seen a few photos of people parking up behind camera vans and then opening their car bonnet or whatever to block their line of sight to the road, and today I read a news article about a guy who stood in front of the camera with an open umberella for half an hour or so.
He says the camera can operator radioed for police assistance, but the police informed him they would take at least 30 mins to get there, so he just stood there.
There was the usual outpouring of public support and laughter regarding his actions.
I presume if the police did turn up, there wouldn't actually be anything they could do apart from ask politely?
I've seen a few photos of people parking up behind camera vans and then opening their car bonnet or whatever to block their line of sight to the road, and today I read a news article about a guy who stood in front of the camera with an open umberella for half an hour or so.
He says the camera can operator radioed for police assistance, but the police informed him they would take at least 30 mins to get there, so he just stood there.
There was the usual outpouring of public support and laughter regarding his actions.
I presume if the police did turn up, there wouldn't actually be anything they could do apart from ask politely?
I saw a photo of a chap standing with an umbrella in front of a camera van. It was not raining. I wondered then about what offences might have been committed.
It's not obstruction of the police prosecuting speeding vehicles as he is doing it, presumably, for all vehicles and not just those he believed were committing an offence. It is not obstruction of the highway/footway as it was on a grass verge. There was a City of London ordnance that was used in similar circs of passive being a knob but that, I think, has since been replaced, and even then it was just the power to move on someone. It was great when an idiot said; 'You can't tell me what to do' and then pose in front of his mates or girlfriend.
It's not obstruction of the police prosecuting speeding vehicles as he is doing it, presumably, for all vehicles and not just those he believed were committing an offence. It is not obstruction of the highway/footway as it was on a grass verge. There was a City of London ordnance that was used in similar circs of passive being a knob but that, I think, has since been replaced, and even then it was just the power to move on someone. It was great when an idiot said; 'You can't tell me what to do' and then pose in front of his mates or girlfriend.
Derek Smith said:
There was a City of London ordnance that was used in similar circs of passive being a knob but that, I think, has since been replaced, and even then it was just the power to move on someone. It was great when an idiot said; 'You can't tell me what to do' and then pose in front of his mates or girlfriend.
Can you actually move someone on even if they aren't committing an offence?WJNB said:
Youtube has plenty of videos showing sad losers with nothing better to do than obstruct camera vans. Bet none have lost a loved one because of a speeding show-off.
I agree except for the fact that many of these vans are not placed where accidents occur, but where they know they can raise revenue. WJNB said:
Youtube has plenty of videos showing sad losers with nothing better to do than obstruct camera vans. Bet none have lost a loved one because of a speeding show-off.
I tend to be of the opinion that speed camera vans don't actually prevent people speeding, they simply catch those who are. After the award of 3 points, the individuals then proceed to carry on driving in the same manner as they did prior to their 3 points deeming it simply 'unlucky' they were caught.
But that's a different debate to be had.
WJNB said:
Youtube has plenty of videos showing sad losers with nothing better to do than obstruct camera vans. Bet none have lost a loved one because of a speeding show-off.
I bet most of the people being caught are doing 10-15% over the limit and not flying around like lunatics or trying to impress anyonr. The motorist is an easy cash cow and what is sad is that police focus on this rather than actual crime and whine about not having enough manpower. Pathetic.Johnnytheboy said:
Lord Marylebone said:
But that's a different debate to be had.
You know this thread is going to turn into one of "those" speeding threads whatever you do?I will admit I'm not helping the situation... but I really did just start out to ask about the legality of obstructing a camera van!
Lord Marylebone said:
Can you actually move someone on even if they aren't committing an offence?
The City of London Police Act, no longer extant, gave a police officer the right to order a foot passenger to follow certain directions, including not going down a street and, as for this, to move elsewhere. If they failed to do so the action was to arrest the person, move them, and then de-arrest. No reason required.The arrest/de-arrest scenario was discovered by a City Police chap who later became a columnist in Police Review, the magazine for police officers. He, C.H. Rolph (pen name, aka CR Hewitt), wrote superb English and was both entertaining and informative. I corresponded with him but, I found out, I was one of hundreds. He had the problem of the chap refusing to move so arrested him - there was a power of arrest, found committing, for most CoLPA offences - but once the person was elsewhere there was no offence, so the chap was de-arrested as there was no actual offence. This could go on for hours of course, but as soon as the likelihood of no further obstruction there was no power to detain. The police were sued for wrongful arrest but the case went up to the high court where the chap's leave to appeal further was refused.
The good old days. There was unlawful possession and lots of others as well.
I chased a bloke who'd failed to remain in situ at the order of a traffic PC. It went of for 15 mins or so until I got him, slightly more exhausted than me, down at the river front. I said to him he was under arrest and he asked, between deep breathes, what for. I radioed the PC who said; 'He became suspected.' The CoLPA went into a little more detail, but essentially that was the only essential.
EDITED TO ADD: Obit here: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/obituary...
Edited by Derek Smith on Thursday 17th May 20:59
They often park a camera van on a road outside the park where I often walk my dogs. I've parked a big Jeep right in front of the van plenty of times, never heard a peep from the bloke inside, but on each occasion they drove away soon after.
That road is one of the widest roads in the town with a 30 limit, as are all the other roads where they try and catch people. They obviously pick those roads as they are roads that any reasonable driver would feel safe driving faster than 30mph, as they are wide clear roads with good visibility and not many pedestrians. If they actually cared about stopping speeding in dangerous places then they'd park on the 30mph roads that have lots of children or pedestrians and less visibility or space.... but they won't do that as very few people speed there.
For the last 5 years my kids have been at a local village school they've had issues with people speeding past the school, but despite requests they've never had anything more than a PCSO turn up once in a blue moon... who just stand around looking useless.
That road is one of the widest roads in the town with a 30 limit, as are all the other roads where they try and catch people. They obviously pick those roads as they are roads that any reasonable driver would feel safe driving faster than 30mph, as they are wide clear roads with good visibility and not many pedestrians. If they actually cared about stopping speeding in dangerous places then they'd park on the 30mph roads that have lots of children or pedestrians and less visibility or space.... but they won't do that as very few people speed there.
For the last 5 years my kids have been at a local village school they've had issues with people speeding past the school, but despite requests they've never had anything more than a PCSO turn up once in a blue moon... who just stand around looking useless.
Derek Smith said:
I said to him he was under arrest and he asked......what for. I radioed the PC............
So you arrested someone without knowing what you were arresting him for? Surely to god you have to have at least some vague idea of an offence before actually depriving someone of their liberty?Two clowns once tried to arrest me for no valid reason, before finding out that the cute blonde I was with was a solicitor who sent them on their way. I wasn't impressed with their actions & have to say that yours sound little better.
Lord Marylebone said:
I tend to be of the opinion that speed camera vans don't actually prevent people speeding, they simply catch those who are.
I can only speak for myself but the proliferation of camera vans where I live (North Yorkshire) has certainly altered my behaviour. It's not made a blind bit of difference around town as I seldom break the 30mph limit and if I do it's by mistake; however, on stretches of road out of town where I'd have been happy to (safely) break the limit by quite a large margin I now find myself thinking there could be a van in a lay-by or on a fly-over and hence tend to moderate my speed just in case.
Therefore, while the change hasn't improved safety one iota, on some roads I am going slower than I used to; doesn't mean I now think the limits are appropriate, just means I don't want to get caught and have points on my licence!
Most speed vans are run not by the Police but by a civilian partnership. So standing in front of a van would not be obstructing a Police Officer in his/her duty because the guy in the van does not have police powers.
So a question to ask is, are speed trap vans there to reduce speeding as a deterrent or to catch offenders that speed and raise revenue?
If there are no speeding cars while you stand there with an umbrella you cannot be obstructing the Police because no offences are being committed that you are preventing the Police from attending.
The mere fact that the van is supposedly a deterrent means that it's purpose is not enforcement so again so how can you be arrested for sheltering from the rain or sun?
Unless of course the use of an umbrella is a,criminal offence?
So a question to ask is, are speed trap vans there to reduce speeding as a deterrent or to catch offenders that speed and raise revenue?
If there are no speeding cars while you stand there with an umbrella you cannot be obstructing the Police because no offences are being committed that you are preventing the Police from attending.
The mere fact that the van is supposedly a deterrent means that it's purpose is not enforcement so again so how can you be arrested for sheltering from the rain or sun?
Unless of course the use of an umbrella is a,criminal offence?
LarsG said:
Most speed vans are run not by the Police but by a civilian partnership.
I find it disingenuous when the police say "it' not us, it's the SCP"- it quietly glosses over the fact that the police are a rather major partner.eg The ones round here have "police" written on them & any admin is done by the local police.
Off topic but related on the subject of speed camera objections. Local chap put up a bird nesting box in his garden. Pissed off with speeding traffic, and to be fair it is an issue there, he built the bird box to look a bit like a Gatso.
Speeding traffic slowed down accordingly. Now he has had to take the camera down, not because what he has done is illegal, far from it, but it's following threats from idiots to have a group drive out and burn his house down.
Traffic speeds back up allegedly. Sometimes idiots really don't do anyone a service.
Speeding traffic slowed down accordingly. Now he has had to take the camera down, not because what he has done is illegal, far from it, but it's following threats from idiots to have a group drive out and burn his house down.
Traffic speeds back up allegedly. Sometimes idiots really don't do anyone a service.
Lord Marylebone said:
I tend to be of the opinion that speed camera vans don't actually prevent people speeding, they simply catch those who are.
They have regular spots around my way which are well known by us locals, so they do indeed stop us from speeding even when they are not there. That also has the effect of stopping those behind us who might speed from being able to speed.Those that don't know where they are and not stuck behind a kindly local will get caught if they speed.
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