Driveshaft Shims ......

[hargo]

Morning all,

Firstly I'm sorry to bring this topic up again but it's getting done on Saturday and as you know we can't search at the mo.

Basically, the n/s rear wheel has scrubbed about 1 - 1.5" of tread off the outside edge in the last 5000 miles or so.

Looking from the rear of the car on a flat surface that wheel does appear to be vertical, if not has positive camber.

I've tried to find a garage that checks camber but no one seems to do it.

There's only one shim between the drive shaft and the disk on that side so I'm going to remove it and see what difference that makes. The question is can you change the shim without removing the big hub nut and leave the driveshaft attached at that end or does it have to come off ?

Thanks in advance

Al.

[djc1001]

Yes you can change shims whilst leaving the main drive hub nut intact. (see Bible)
The 4 drive shaft flange nuts can be difficult - depends on what spanners you have.
Are you sure the suspension bushes are OK ?
Assuming its an A frame - the rear tracking can give wear problems as described

David


>> Edited by djc1001 on Thursday 28th April 12:04

[hargo]

Thanks for your reply.

It is an A Frame ( maybe should have mentioned that ! ). With the car jacked up there's very little movement of the wheel ( very slight top / bottom which I think is the bearing ).

Good idea about the rear tracking. How is it adjusted ? Or is that what the adjustable bolt is for the the A frame itself ( from memory ).

A 4 wheel alignment should pick that up, any ideas on what the rear tracking should be ?

Thanks again

[gsx600]

I would say that if it only has 1 shim in , it may need more as my 350 had about 4 -6 on each side. If you are getting it tracked make sure the garage has the available shims before they adjust them (XJ6) if I remember correctly

[SEvans]

There are 2 types of shim, one that goes between the brake disk and the diff to get the caliper centred over the disk. The second is between the disk and drive shaft. They are different. IIRC the one between the diff and disk is only available in one thickness, the other is available in 3 different thickness's.

[leorest]

gsx600 said:

my 350 had about 4 -6 on each side.

You're lucky, I've got about half a inch worth of shims on ons side and none on the other! What's all that about then?
Leo

[paul gotts]

As DJC says, you can change these shims without having to undo the hub nut, but you should slacken the two long bolts either side of the hub carrier to allow the driveshaft and hub to swing back a bit. I too have a big difference in the number of shims on either side of mine.Just measured one from the last batch I got - 0.50mm thick. Jag part C16621, came in a pack of 10. You'll need a proper 4 wheel alignment to do the job properly. The rear camber should be 1 - 1.5 deg. neg. and the rear toe (in) should be 2mm. These are figures the factory gave me for my 400, but I would think they should be the same for a 350.

[hargo]

Thanks again for the replies people !

Paul - Does the shocker have to be removed to allow the hub to swing back or will it be alright as it's not connected directly to the hub ?

All the garages I tried would do the alignment. Don't know if they would be able to adjust the rear toe in or if it would be better doing it myself ?

Cheers

Al

[paul gotts]

hargo said:

Thanks again for the replies people ! Paul - Does the shocker have to be removed to allow the hub to swing back or will it be alright as it's not connected directly to the hub ?

No, just slacken the bolts either side of the hub carrier a little. I forgot to say also you'll need to disconnct the tie rod from the top of the hub and swing it out of the way to allow the hub to move.

hargo said:

All the garages I tried would do the alignment. Don't know if they would be able to adjust the rear toe in or if it would be better doing it myself ? Cheers Al

My garage is able to adjust the rear toe, it's not difficult, but you'll probably have to point out the adjuster to them. Never done it myself.

[leorest]

The driveshaft nuts are aerotight (all metal self locking)make sure that when you put them back on that you cannot spin them all the way down the thread by hand. They are re-usable but eventually the deformed thread conforms to the norm! I replace mine at the same time as the driveshafts. Don't use nylocks or liquid threadlock as the breaks will burn the nylon/locktight after your first enthusiastic drive
Leo

[hargo]

Thanks for all the replies and info, it's been a big help as usual

I'm doing it tomorrow so hopefully it'll all go to plan

Can then get some tyres ...... with tread !

Cheers

Al

[hargo]

Back again !

Completed all of the above work. Each side actually had 4 shims in so I took 2 out of each side. You can see the difference but it's not VW Beetle style negative camber !

Anyhow after double checking everything took it for a drive and now there's a rythmic type of drone from the rear end

When I had the drive shafts out I checked the UJs ( to the best of my knowledge and ability ) and they moved freely, weren't notchy, no play that I could find and I filled them with grease.

I checked the top / bottom play. There was a bit of top / bottom but not excessive. Sadly though I can't remember if I definitely tried side to side afterwards which from what I've found on here is an indication of wheel bearings ( which is what I'm hoping ! )

The noise does speed up as speed increases but makes no difference if on power, constant throttle or with the clutch depressed.

Would worn UJs drone or is it more likley to be bearings or the diff

I know it's hard to advise without hearing it or on my description but any advice would be greatly appreciated !

Cheers

Al

[paul gotts]

hargo said:

Back again ! Completed all of the above work. Each side actually had 4 shims in so I took 2 out of each side. You can see the difference but it's not VW Beetle style negative camber ! Anyhow after double checking everything took it for a drive and now there's a rythmic type of drone from the rear end When I had the drive shafts out I checked the UJs ( to the best of my knowledge and ability ) and they moved freely, weren't notchy, no play that I could find and I filled them with grease. I checked the top / bottom play. There was a bit of top / bottom but not excessive. Sadly though I can't remember if I definitely tried side to side afterwards which from what I've found on here is an indication of wheel bearings ( which is what I'm hoping ! ) The noise does speed up as speed increases but makes no difference if on power, constant throttle or with the clutch depressed. Would worn UJs drone or is it more likley to be bearings or the diff I know it's hard to advise without hearing it or on my description but any advice would be greatly appreciated ! Cheers Al

Seems odd that the drone only started after the work being done. Sounds obvious, but are all the bolts which were slackened (driveshaft flange, hub carrier) now re-tightened? Shot uj's tend to clonk when taking up drive, although I've had one that squeaked, as it was dry. They also give play when rocking the wheel top to bottom. When my diff. was on its way out it exhibited noise and a buzz, particularly when lifting off and re-applying the throttle, most noticeably at speeds 80 plus. If you can jack the back up SECURELY and run it in gear, it might give you a better idea of where the noise is coming from.

Paul

[pwd95]

My nearside UJ is being replaced next week. This gave a repetitive droning sound under power turning left also the wheel mooved up and down as you've described. Hope this helps.

[hargo]

Thanks Paul,

Yeah, I double checked that all the nuts were tight, didn't want anything falling off

Before I attempted it there used to be drone round about 60 mph but not nearly as bad as it is now.

Could it be that the change in camber is putting more strain on the wheel bearings and making the noise worse ?

Or am I clutching at straws here ...... ?

Jacking up the car and running it is an option just a bit on the scary side

Cheers

[SEvans]

hargo said:

Jacking up the car and running it is an option just a bit on the scary side Cheers

I think you may find that the UJ's will knock because of the angle of the drive shafts with the wheels down. I guess you could jack the hubs up, but not sure I would do it, as you say it's all a bit scary.

[paul gotts]

hargo said:

Could it be that the change in camber is putting more strain on the wheel bearings and making the noise worse ? Or am I clutching at straws here ...... ? Jacking up the car and running it is an option just a bit on the scary side Cheers

I would have thought that if the bearings were that bad you would see a lot of play at the wheel /s.
When I was checking my diff last year, I supported the car with a pair of axle stands under the two horizontal bars at the rear of the diff carrier. Can also leave a trolley jack at another point under the chassis as a further safeguard. As long as you chock the front wheels, and are careful not to rock the car around too much, should be ok. At least you should get some idea whether the noise is from one or both sides, or from the centre. Also, it's not unknown for the hub nuts to slacken themselves - IIRC it was fairly common for dealers to drill and pin them. Trouble is you need a fairly hefty torque wrench to check they're properly tight.

Paul.