Help me choose a fast estate please

[jazzdude]

Following on from a post a few days ago, I had decided that an XF Sportbrake would be my ideal next car in 3.0 - diesel S.

Ticks all boxes, low CO2s, good on fuel, gorgeous, luxury, smooth, fast and somewhere to put the dog.

I'm looking at 2013-14 as I have a 18k budget and there are a few to choose from but further research has got me thinking about diesel issues, dpfs and egr valves and potential big bills.

But what are the alternatives? The usual German suspects are all diesels too and anything petrol puts me into big AMG/RS territory and higher running costs and CO2s. (200 is my limit).

Am I overreacting or is a big 4 year old diesel, out of warranty likely to be a potential money pit? What else is there in this category?

Can't see myself in a 2.0l VAG /Ford car to be honest.

[oop north]

Bmw 535i touring is 197g - do a search on autotrader and there are a couple around £18k ish. Not a big choice unlike diesel

[ZX10R NIN]

The simple answer is if you're doing the mileage (i'd say over 12k would see you okay) then EGR's & DPF's shouldn't be an issue.

If you're not then I'd be looking at the Ford, I went from a Mercedes to a Vignale Mondeo & I have to say it's a cracking car comfortable loaded with kit & hassle free so far, the fit & finish is good but not Mercedes good.

I would recommend you take a look at one, the Jag is a good car & very pretty & would be my pick over the Mondeo but it would be close (the 3.0d engine is the thing that sways it) very close.

Mondeo:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

[steve-5snwi]

BMW 330i touring if you can find one, or a Mondeo as posted above.

[numtumfutunch]

ZX10R NIN said:

The simple answer is if you're doing the mileage (i'd say over 12k would see you okay) then EGR's & DPF's shouldn't be an issue.

If you're not then I'd be looking at the Ford, I went from a Mercedes to a Vignale Mondeo & I have to say it's a cracking car comfortable loaded with kit & hassle free so far, the fit & finish is good but not Mercedes good.

I would recommend you take a look at one, the Jag is a good car & very pretty & would be my pick over the Mondeo but it would be close (the 3.0d engine is the thing that sways it) very close.

Mondeo:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

A 2015 Mondeo mid spec for 18k or a 2016 BMW 335d for 20, your choice.....

Click for bimmer

And that was after the briefest of searches.
OK it isnt actually a Shadow but appears to have the M Sport package of tasty alloys, tints, big brakes and a banging stereo. Is has the regular nav not the widescreen which in my own opinion is more than compensated by the HK stereo upgrade.

Anyway a BMW forum I frequent is full of people crying about how much their 2-3y old 335d is worth, prices are being killed for a variety of reasons so nows a good time to buy. Funnily enough nobody on there is complaining about BMW offering 20% discounts on new purchases though!

Cheers

Edited by numtumfutunch on Tuesday 22 May 23:07

[steve-5snwi]

No heated seats on the 335d either ... and i would take pro nav over HK any day

[numtumfutunch]

steve-5snwi said:

No heated seats on the 335d either ... and i would take pro nav over HK any day

We disagree on both of those counts.

Im coming to the end of a 335d lease and having paid extra for Pronav have to declare its an utter waste of money. The screen is lovely but its primary function of navigating is compromised by just terrible routing and the real time traffic information, when it actually works, is only on major arterial roads and usually offers barking mad detours when things are a bit busy. And the standard stwereo is st.

Heated seats are nice and I thought would be missed after my last gin palace however the F31/30 has an active element in its climate control which belts heat out after no more than a minute or two rather than waiting for the car to get up to temperature.

Cheers

[steve-5snwi]

I actually prefer the 330d to the 335d, it just seems smoother and less gruff. Bass on the HK is rubbish and the tweeters are harsh, although the HK Pro logic is better than the HK in the Mini. I agree the nav is a bit hit and miss and i always used waze but i find it finishes the interior off and like the additional features pro nave brings.

[ZX10R NIN]

numtumfutunch said:

A 2015 Mondeo mid spec for 18k or a 2016 BMW 335d for 20, your choice.....

Click for bimmer

And that was after the briefest of searches.
OK it isnt actually a Shadow but appears to have the M Sport package of tasty alloys, tints, big brakes and a banging stereo. Is has the regular nav not the widescreen which in my own opinion is more than compensated by the HK stereo upgrade.

Anyway a BMW forum I frequent is full of people crying about how much their 2-3y old 335d is worth, prices are being killed for a variety of reasons so nows a good time to buy. Funnily enough nobody on there is complaining about BMW offering 20% discounts on new purchases though!

Cheers

Compare apples with apples 18k isn't 20k.

I'll take the Jag XF estate if I'm paying XF if I was paying 21k (the extra 1k would be for the suspension so it would actually drive well) because I think it's the better estate as I stated in my post above:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

Also you do realise that 335d you posted is a Category C Car a better comparison is this:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

So would you prefer the 335d I listed/your Cat C/ the Jags or the Vignale Mondeo (which is 1.5k cheaper) all for 18k:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

[BusaMK]

I had an XF 3.0d. The top of the range Stereo was simply sublime and the cabin interior was superb. Only problems were the ride quality without dynamic suspension specced was quite poor on the 20" jaguar wheels (my Porsche 997 C2S is ironically far more comfortable on the motorway than the XF ever was), and the seats themselves are quite wide, only comfortable if you've a middle aged spread. The other massive downside is the amount the XF depreciates, a £15k XF will lose £5k in your first year, and then about £2k a year after that. If I'd have factored in depreciation it would have made more sense for me to have bought an E39 M5 even despite the extra fuel costs. I'd definitely look at buying an XF under £10k to avoid losing a fortune in value. The 3.0 engine is a good engine and the gearbox is very slick. The only downside is the intercooler has plastic end caps which are prone to blowing especially on remapped cars, and they are a big and expensive job to replace. The engine is also not quite as efficient as the BMW 3.0 engine; I averaged about 35mpg from mine.

On the plus side though, the cabin is a superb place to be with a huge amount of refinement and personality compared to its German and Ford rivals. The car ate up the miles and would have been perfect if the ride quality and the seats were just slightly better. I'm keeping a close eye on the XF estate and may get one again with smaller wheels once values have fallen a bit more.

Another option is to keep an eye out for a BMW 325d or 525d - they both have detuned engines which have been vastly unstressed during their lives, the engine responds amazingly to a remap, where you get near the same performance of a stock 335d. Personally I found the msport suspension made the car ride too harshly especially with runflats, but I ran a remapled 325d estate for a while and it was a very good car.

Edited by BusaMK on Wednesday 23 May 00:39

[jazzdude]

As I was afraid of, there isn't another clear option as I don't think any of the cars mentioned get close to the package and kit you get with a Portfolio version of the XFS, and I feel a 335d not only is a smaller car but nowhere near the same place to be compared to the Jaguar.

The BMW will have a rock hard ride, will be full of compromises on kit in that it would be very difficult to find a fully loaded car with half the creature comforts the Jaguar has (loved the cooled seats in a full fat RR I once had) and let's face it, we are back to the same big diesel dpf, egr etc issues that I was initially concerned with.

Interesting that you feel that the depreciation would be as much as 5k in the first year as prices on AT seem to be very similar between the first 2012 models through to 2014, the thing separating the cheaper cars is not age but mileage. 40-65k miles around 18-20k, then around 100k miles and they drop a couple of grand.

The Ford really does not feel premium enough for me I'm afraid, I mean next it will be Passats and Octavias and then a Golf Gti estate, none of which I think have the sense of occasion that the top of the range Jaguar has.

We could also talk about the CLS, but prices are higher and it's still a big diesel.

[phib]

We have a 2012 A6 3.0 quattro. It has been a great car now done 120k.

I have to say I would be tempted to put a warranty direct warranty on anything of this age and complexity.

I have never had a warranty on cars before, as I really didnt belive in them. However for some odd reason I took one out on this car.

6 months later new gearbox and dual mass flywheel (£8k) all under warranty for c. £500 a year ... a bit of a no brainer !!

Phib.

[jazzdude]

The warranty would be a great idea, but unfortunately, as I am exporting the car, I doubt I would be able to cover it that way, even with an approved dealer car.

The manufacturers' warranty though, that does count, but the car would have to be under 3 years old.

As far as the Audi is concerned, I am increasingly shocked by how often I hear about their chocolate gearboxes, I think it is outrageous for a car at that price level.

[gizlaroc]

jazzdude said:

But what are the alternatives? The usual German suspects are all diesels too and anything petrol puts me into big AMG/RS territory and higher running costs and CO2s. (200 is my limit).

Am I overreacting or is a big 4 year old diesel, out of warranty likely to be a potential money pit? What else is there in this category?

I agree it is a real problem.

I had advertised and sold my E350 Sport Estate, 3.5 V6 petrol, but reality is there is nothing newer to replace it with.
I have an E61 530d Touring as well, thought I would buy that as the family load lugger giving me more options on the main car, as I could go for something other than estate, but still bugger all out here in petrol guise.

I don't want and M car, I don't want an AMG, I want petrol for the refinement.
I tried a new 530d thinking I might have to go brand new, but it was no better, still felt rough compared to the E350.

I know after a few weeks you can dial out that diesel thrum, the small vibrations your brain can ignore after a few days, but I don't want to, I would rather it just silky smooth, to me that is what a luxury car is all about.


So annoying to see all the petrols available in other markets too, all BMW, Audi, Mercedes UK decisions.


My petrol E350 is 164 g/km, so 4 g/km lower than the E350 cdi.

I bought the E350 cdi before and got rid of it, the petrol has 306hp, and is only 10% behind the diesel for economy too.
Yet Mercedes sold 10's of thousands of diesels and only 21 petrols, and that 21 was across all shapes.
I think the dealers have a lot to answer to, most of them have no clue how much petrol technology has improved in the last 10 years, they are the ones pushing everyone into diesels. Their ignorance is not an excuse.

They are starting to add more petrols again now, but still the sales guys are pushing the diesels. Why?

[Zetec-S]

Perhaps a bit left-field, and I know not a big estate, but I've always liked the Volvo V60:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

[jazzdude]

[quote=Zetec-S]Perhaps a bit left-field, and I know not a big estate, but I've always liked the Volvo V60:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

Interesting, seems fast, although needs more looking into.

[jazzdude]

[quote=Zetec-S]Perhaps a bit left-field, and I know not a big estate, but I've always liked the Volvo V60:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

Interesting, seems fast, although needs more looking into.

[nobrakes]

E320cdi and a re-map.

[Deerfoot]

jazzdude said:

Zetec-S said:

Perhaps a bit left-field, and I know not a big estate, but I've always liked the Volvo V60:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

Interesting, seems fast, although needs more looking into.

I have a V60. They're great (IMHO) but they're not a big estate.