993 Practical mass saving tips
Discussion
Following on from DeR's monster-power and doubtlessly monster-budget wunder-machine... my aspirations are significantly less lofty, limited both by a relative lack of lucre and also by the sad requirement to park the car in the street and public car parks, hopefully avoiding the attention of local louts and wandering vandals.
Given the old (Colin Chapman?) truism 'for speed, add lightness' - what are the practical mass saving measures one can take with a normal-ish 993? The car must remain livable with and must remain subtle.
My initial guesses are:
1) replace lardy 993 seats with something lighter, but must be made by Porsche (GT3 seats?) - presumably £££;
2) wheels - the 18" 5-spoke jobbies on some 996 carreras are reputed to be *very* light for a factory wheel, not sure whether they'd be lighter than my current 17" wheels though - anyone? ;
3) carbon fibre bonnet? Is this a drop-in replacement i.e. not requiring bonnet pins / racer-type bits?
Alas I can't cut back on the pies and reduce driver weight, I'm skinny enough as it is (10.5 stone)
I am planning later in the year to hopefully get 9m to push the supercharger to the next stage, however cheaper mass reductions both improve acceleration and the performance of my brakes, i.e. benefits all round.
Anyone here tinkered with a 993 in this fashion? Are there any significant savings to be had, or are we only talking around 10kg and therefore a waste of ca$h?
Given the old (Colin Chapman?) truism 'for speed, add lightness' - what are the practical mass saving measures one can take with a normal-ish 993? The car must remain livable with and must remain subtle.
My initial guesses are:
1) replace lardy 993 seats with something lighter, but must be made by Porsche (GT3 seats?) - presumably £££;
2) wheels - the 18" 5-spoke jobbies on some 996 carreras are reputed to be *very* light for a factory wheel, not sure whether they'd be lighter than my current 17" wheels though - anyone? ;
3) carbon fibre bonnet? Is this a drop-in replacement i.e. not requiring bonnet pins / racer-type bits?
Alas I can't cut back on the pies and reduce driver weight, I'm skinny enough as it is (10.5 stone)
I am planning later in the year to hopefully get 9m to push the supercharger to the next stage, however cheaper mass reductions both improve acceleration and the performance of my brakes, i.e. benefits all round.
Anyone here tinkered with a 993 in this fashion? Are there any significant savings to be had, or are we only talking around 10kg and therefore a waste of ca$h?
I have a friend on rennlist (we met once in london) who has lightened his C2 significantly (to the tune of 94kg so far).
Changed his seats, i think he has the Recaro SPG seats now. Changed his wheels for Veloce GT1's, but i don't think they're available any more.
Ditched the ridiculous spare wheel/jack/tools/front carpet and carries a can of tire foam instead
I think he took the back seats out as well.
VS
Changed his seats, i think he has the Recaro SPG seats now. Changed his wheels for Veloce GT1's, but i don't think they're available any more.
Ditched the ridiculous spare wheel/jack/tools/front carpet and carries a can of tire foam instead
I think he took the back seats out as well.
VS
paultje said:
LX can't remember if yours is an early 993 or not. If it is don't forget the bracket for the steering rack used on 18" wheels. Also the carbon fibre bonnets are v difficult to repair should anyone scratch/bend it!!
Good luck with the mods let us know how it goes....
Cheers - yeah this one's a 1994 so would need the brace. However, after a bit of digging around, the 18 inchers aren't lighter anyway (assuming this info is correct):
German site with wheel weights
According to this, the 18" carreras are light wheels, but the 17" wheels fitted to my car (marked 996 Carrera 2 for some reason, I thought 996s came with 18" wheels as standard?) are lighter still, and the lightest non-magnesium wheel in the list.
So no wheel changes for me!
Anyone know the respective mass differences for the carbon bonnet and seats? Are the standard 993 seats much heavier than the 993 hard-back sports seats?
all improvement... cyberface said:
Given the old (Colin Chapman?) truism 'for speed, add lightness' - what are the practical mass saving measures one can take with a normal-ish 993? The car must remain livable with and must remain subtle.
I've taken about 200kg out of my 964 and here are my thoughts FWIW.
Can you feel the difference? You sure as hell can. I'm working on the principle that 4kg weight loss is equivilant to 1bhp gain.
Pulling the front seats saves a fair bit of weight, in my case about 30kg. Depends whether you find the replacements as comfortable - probably not though.
Carbon fibre bonnets save about 14kg and the electric rear spoiler and engine lid about 20kg. Carbon doors save about 25kg each. The problem with carbon parts is they never fit as well as the Porsche steel ones and you losesome of the cars quality feel.
Pulling electrical items such as rearwiper etc saves a couple of kg per item but you lose the convienience.
Overall weight loss is great on track type situations because you also get improved cornering and braking but on the road the benefits are more equvicable; From a purely performance point of view you are probably better off improving the power to weight ratio by increasing hp.
I've not done it myself, but I understand that one of the most effective ways of reducing weight is to remove ancilliary electrical motors.
Electric seats, Electric windows, Rear wiper (Front wipers), Heater Fans.
I believe that you can get a much better starter motors than tend to be fitted as standard. They're quite expensive but they use lighter magnets, and lighter frames. In general they're about two thirds the physical size.
Loosing air conditioning, reduces weight to the extent of the heat exchangers, the pump, the fluid, and the obvious drain on power that it causes.
Windows can be thinner, and made of polycarbonate.
Electric seats, Electric windows, Rear wiper (Front wipers), Heater Fans.
I believe that you can get a much better starter motors than tend to be fitted as standard. They're quite expensive but they use lighter magnets, and lighter frames. In general they're about two thirds the physical size.
Loosing air conditioning, reduces weight to the extent of the heat exchangers, the pump, the fluid, and the obvious drain on power that it causes.
Windows can be thinner, and made of polycarbonate.
Thanks for the sensible replies...
Bonnet and seats look worthwhile then. I'd rather not change the doors (like the weighty 'thunk' too much). Equally if the engine cover is changed, it'd have to be changed for a fixed spoiler would it not? I'd like to keep the external appearance standard.
Saving around 45 kilos sounds pretty decent actually, it'd be like driving with no legs and only half of my body
Now where can I get a carbon bonnet for a 993?
Bonnet and seats look worthwhile then. I'd rather not change the doors (like the weighty 'thunk' too much). Equally if the engine cover is changed, it'd have to be changed for a fixed spoiler would it not? I'd like to keep the external appearance standard.
Saving around 45 kilos sounds pretty decent actually, it'd be like driving with no legs and only half of my body
Now where can I get a carbon bonnet for a 993?
Whilst washing the car last night I did give some thought to this (how sad am I?). Possibly one that may see some increase in lowering the centre of gravity as well as lightening the car would be to remove all sunroom mechanism and fixing closed the sunroof panel itself. Dunno how much this will save but it all helps!
I reckon reasonable cost for reasonable weight saving means ditching the front seats for recaro cloth fixed back buckets (less than a grand with mounts), and tke everything you don't need out of the front compartment - carpet, spare wheel, tools, jack, compressor, etc. Just leave your battery, first aid kit, and fuel tank 
VS
VS
DanH said:
Pulling out sound deadening can save a load of weight. Doesn't do much for the NVH though.
You might be able to replace (some of) the sound deadening material with more advanced, lightweight stuff - particularly with older cars. The undercarpet rubber backed foam stuff of my Saab weighed in at 8 kgs - out it came and in went 0.4 kg worth of Dynamat Dynaliner...
Oh, and if you're pulling electric motors (don't see why not - electric window switches for instance, must be very well located for them to be more convenient than the odd couple of turns of a window winder crank IMO), don't forget to pull control units, switches (replace with blanking plate of carbon fibre, if you will - I did
) and trim/remove wiring looms. I just went through this and took a whopping 5 kgs of redundant material out of the car after having pulled the motors.I am currently doing the same to my 993. Car already race spec ie stripped out. Speaking to company called stutgart connection about cardon doors and bonnet. Waiting to find out prices. Depending n how far you want to take it, replacing glass windows and rear screen with persplex will save alot of weight. I pick my car up next week from Parr where it has been for last couple of weeks getting TPC supercharger kit fitted. Also lightweight flywheel and competition clutch fitted. Can't wait till next track day.....
verysideways said:
I reckon reasonable cost for reasonable weight saving means ditching the front seats for recaro cloth fixed back buckets (less than a grand with mounts), and tke everything you don't need out of the front compartment - carpet, spare wheel, tools, jack, compressor, etc. Just leave your battery, first aid kit, and fuel tank
VS
I dont know 993's very well, but do you really want to just be removing weight from the front?? I cant help but think that'll create an undesireable weight balance that'll lead to more understeer?
Fair point, but that's where most of the weight loss in a 993 RS comfort comes from.
edit - in fact for me it's ideal, because it helps to offset some of the weight of the 4wd system. in fact in my car it might even REDUCE the understeer... guess what i'll be doing this weekend?
>> Edited by verysideways on Friday 29th April 11:43
edit - in fact for me it's ideal, because it helps to offset some of the weight of the 4wd system. in fact in my car it might even REDUCE the understeer... guess what i'll be doing this weekend?
>> Edited by verysideways on Friday 29th April 11:43
verysideways said:
I reckon reasonable cost for reasonable weight saving means ditching the front seats for recaro cloth fixed back buckets (less than a grand with mounts), and tke everything you don't need out of the front compartment - carpet, spare wheel, tools, jack, compressor, etc. Just leave your battery, first aid kit, and fuel tank
VS
Don't forget that the spacesaver spare as integral part of the impact absorbing design in the event of a front end collision. Probably more use in that function than as a spare wheel, but certainly think twice before taking it out for weightsaving.
Or are you taking out the airbags and seatbelts next?
verysideways said:
Fair point, but that's where most of the weight loss in a 993 RS comfort comes from.
edit - in fact for me it's ideal, because it helps to offset some of the weight of the 4wd system. in fact in my car it might even REDUCE the understeer... guess what i'll be doing this weekend?
>> Edited by verysideways on Friday 29th April 11:43
I can understand it on a 4wd porsche, but wasnt so sure on a C2... Does the 993 RS not run significantly lower/ stiffer or does it have anything to alter the weight distribution? Perhaps if one was to go the lightening route at the front, it may be worth copying these settings/components to really benefit as a whole package??
Btw: is the answer to the last bit "Driving" - because surely you must have taken out all that stuff the day you bought your already lardy (4wd)porker
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