Boredom & Comfort vs. Engagement & (Some) Hardship...
Discussion
anonymous said:
[redacted]
If the salary is low for someone of your skills and experience, presumably it's also low for someone with the skills and experience they're looking for.The cynic in me is suggesting that they've lowballed the salary horrendously on the role, and you were the only applicant, who reluctantly turned it down as it wasn't enough money. They've scraped a bit extra out of the salary barrel but it hasn't been enough to attract anyone decent, so they thought they'd contact the guy who thought it was almost acceptable last time.
If that's the case then it suggests that the company in question doesn't really value project management.
Just my 2p.
benjs is right, it's really not that different.
I have done both - qualified and experienced in both Agile and Waterfall (I have PRINCE2, PSM-1, PMBOK something or other, blah blah blah...).
It's impossible to generalise - in theory a waterfall project is heavier on the documentation, but in practice I have seen some agile projects where they went all behaviour-driven development with test cases up the wahoney and as a result actually generated more paperwork than a waterfall lightweight tech spec would have done.
It's worth remember that you are quite likely to find companies which say they do agile but actually do anything but. "Inspection, transparency, adaptation" are anathema to politically driven process based ossified structures!
As a PM your key responsibility, in my opinion, is communication and removal of impediments. That's no different whether it's an agile project or a waterfall one - your job is to keep the team working effectively. Powers of persuasion; managing customer expectations; handling scope creep; dealing with change. Those skills are identical. E.g. "Change Control" (waterfall) is just a different side of "add it to the backlog, we'll need another sprint" (Agile).
If you are doing consultancy you are already used to flying by the seat of your pants and operating with less support than a desk-bound gannt-chart generating paperwork jockey, so you're halfway to living agile anyway!
I'd had a lot more confidence in yourself. With a technical background you're well ahead of a whole bunch of "2 day Scrummaster" wonderkids churned out by the usual training firms.
I have done both - qualified and experienced in both Agile and Waterfall (I have PRINCE2, PSM-1, PMBOK something or other, blah blah blah...).
It's impossible to generalise - in theory a waterfall project is heavier on the documentation, but in practice I have seen some agile projects where they went all behaviour-driven development with test cases up the wahoney and as a result actually generated more paperwork than a waterfall lightweight tech spec would have done.
It's worth remember that you are quite likely to find companies which say they do agile but actually do anything but. "Inspection, transparency, adaptation" are anathema to politically driven process based ossified structures!
As a PM your key responsibility, in my opinion, is communication and removal of impediments. That's no different whether it's an agile project or a waterfall one - your job is to keep the team working effectively. Powers of persuasion; managing customer expectations; handling scope creep; dealing with change. Those skills are identical. E.g. "Change Control" (waterfall) is just a different side of "add it to the backlog, we'll need another sprint" (Agile).
If you are doing consultancy you are already used to flying by the seat of your pants and operating with less support than a desk-bound gannt-chart generating paperwork jockey, so you're halfway to living agile anyway!
I'd had a lot more confidence in yourself. With a technical background you're well ahead of a whole bunch of "2 day Scrummaster" wonderkids churned out by the usual training firms.
A couple of rhetorical questions.
Could this other company offer you something else other than the ideal salary? ie what do they have in their assets/portfolio etc which you could put to use for instance? (flights/holiday home/weekend breaks etc etc)
Could they give you a stake in the business, maybe?
(Whilst admittedly barely understanding your role) - if you were able to attract clients, could you negotiate that they give a healthy commission instead?
Perhaps you could view the salary that they're offering as a basic, with additional earnings being achieved through other 'add ons'.
(yes, of course I can shut up
)
Could this other company offer you something else other than the ideal salary? ie what do they have in their assets/portfolio etc which you could put to use for instance? (flights/holiday home/weekend breaks etc etc)
Could they give you a stake in the business, maybe?
(Whilst admittedly barely understanding your role) - if you were able to attract clients, could you negotiate that they give a healthy commission instead?
Perhaps you could view the salary that they're offering as a basic, with additional earnings being achieved through other 'add ons'.
(yes, of course I can shut up
)I only sell software rather than develop it or manage the development process, but everything I've seen over the last decade or so makes me think that your present "comfortable" is rapidly going the way of the dinosaur, and everything all seems to be about agile, scrums and rolling updates.
Waterfall project management was fine for traditional on prem enterprise software, because the average business couldn't cope with the upheaval of implementing a major upgrade more than once every couple of years anyway.
Now that everything is shifting towards SaaS and apps, everything seems to be focused on getting a minimum viable product launched, then rolling out updates every few weeks or even days, waterfall project management doesn't seem able to keep up.
As I say, I'm only speaking as someone looking over the fence into other departments, so some actual project managers may well be along shortly to tell me why I'm mistaken, but my thinking is that if you can handle the short term financial pain whilst you're getting up to speed, then you'll rapidly find yourself more secure, better rewarded and with a better career path ahead of you.
Waterfall project management was fine for traditional on prem enterprise software, because the average business couldn't cope with the upheaval of implementing a major upgrade more than once every couple of years anyway.
Now that everything is shifting towards SaaS and apps, everything seems to be focused on getting a minimum viable product launched, then rolling out updates every few weeks or even days, waterfall project management doesn't seem able to keep up.
As I say, I'm only speaking as someone looking over the fence into other departments, so some actual project managers may well be along shortly to tell me why I'm mistaken, but my thinking is that if you can handle the short term financial pain whilst you're getting up to speed, then you'll rapidly find yourself more secure, better rewarded and with a better career path ahead of you.
Ah right, yes that's a very helpful nugget!
Now I see where you are coming from. Hmm. The thing with software development is, as sort of hinted above by kermit, it's an ever-changing feast and particularly in an agency environment what you will face is continual requirements drift. The benefit of software is that it's actually possible to accommodate all those different requirements whereas I imagine in your current role if someone suddenly remembers they need 80" instead of 55" screens, you're a bit stuck.
So, it may be that you'll find software easier. You could even pitch yourself that way - "hey, if I can manage a rollout where there are fixed hard dependencies and no way to "patch" a mistake with an update, then it'll be easy".
However, you have mentioned "agency" and "digital". Having experienced that, I think I would strongly recommend you skip the stress. Feel free to PM me if you like ...
Now I see where you are coming from. Hmm. The thing with software development is, as sort of hinted above by kermit, it's an ever-changing feast and particularly in an agency environment what you will face is continual requirements drift. The benefit of software is that it's actually possible to accommodate all those different requirements whereas I imagine in your current role if someone suddenly remembers they need 80" instead of 55" screens, you're a bit stuck.
So, it may be that you'll find software easier. You could even pitch yourself that way - "hey, if I can manage a rollout where there are fixed hard dependencies and no way to "patch" a mistake with an update, then it'll be easy".
However, you have mentioned "agency" and "digital". Having experienced that, I think I would strongly recommend you skip the stress. Feel free to PM me if you like ...
All good stuff there, helps everyone to be more useful to you.
I did something similar, taking a big hit in the hope that it would "come good". The first year, you can be optimistic for the future. The second year, you start to lose patience with still being constrained and your temper begins to fray. The third year, you are more disengaged than you were in the "easy" job.
If you're going to be struggling to take the shift in direction, you need to be really 100% certain it will pay off. My gut feeling is that it won't - if the consultancy have not filled the role they will probably go the same way as your previous experience with an agency. I've been there, seen it and done it.
I did something similar, taking a big hit in the hope that it would "come good". The first year, you can be optimistic for the future. The second year, you start to lose patience with still being constrained and your temper begins to fray. The third year, you are more disengaged than you were in the "easy" job.
If you're going to be struggling to take the shift in direction, you need to be really 100% certain it will pay off. My gut feeling is that it won't - if the consultancy have not filled the role they will probably go the same way as your previous experience with an agency. I've been there, seen it and done it.
BenjiS said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Honeslty, there really isn’t such a big difference. I’m a solution/enterprise/technical architect, and have worked on everything from traditional waterfall project to fully Agile deliveries. The skill sets of the pms are fully transferable. Once you’ve done some training, you’ll easily be able to see where your current skills translate to the newer methodologies. Then go opinto a new position on that basis. Particularly if you can see how the negative aspects of traditional deliveries are improved by newer ones, and are able to articulate that to an employer. That’ll matter just as much as experience. ‘Digital’ is a s
tty buzzword doing the rounds at the moment and it really isn’t any different from anything that’s gone before. Solve a business problem with technology. Oh, and my org is looking for engagement managers current (senior pms). PM me if you want pointing in the direction. It’s consultancy though, so travel is involved and expected.
Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 2nd June 19:35
Sounds to me like they want a cheap answer. You'll never get that money back.
Btw for context my background in development/architecture/consultant/CTO/IT director - ie the bloke that offers the jobs to the PMs and Ive never cared what their particular 'bent' is, just 'can you deliver my project'
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