Arise, Sir James!
Discussion
My old chambers mucker and all round good egg James Eadie QC, the Treasury Devil, is being knighted. Back in the day, very grand silks would be knighted in much the same way that very grand surgeons were. Getting a K is always waaaaay classier than getting an L. This tradition of knighting has died out of late (not surprising, perhaps, now that silks, once a rarity, are available in bumper family packs in Iceland and Lidl); but - Arise, Sir James!
James is a posh bloke who lives in the shires, has a big brain, works very hard, and sees the funny side of life. The Treasury Devil is the Government 's number one courtroom lawyer, and by convention the role was always held by a junior and not a silk, but that tradition ended with Philip Sales, Eadie's predecessor in the role. It is usual for the Treasury Devil to become a High Court Judge at the end of their stint, but I don't know if that's what James is planning.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1v1Y17BT6I
James is a posh bloke who lives in the shires, has a big brain, works very hard, and sees the funny side of life. The Treasury Devil is the Government 's number one courtroom lawyer, and by convention the role was always held by a junior and not a silk, but that tradition ended with Philip Sales, Eadie's predecessor in the role. It is usual for the Treasury Devil to become a High Court Judge at the end of their stint, but I don't know if that's what James is planning.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1v1Y17BT6I
There isn't a standard pattern. Traditionally only a small minority of barristers became QCs, but in modern mega-chambers the model has changed and it is expected that you become a QC after about 15 to 20 years as a junior (all barristers who are not QCs are referred to as juniors, even if like me they are 947 years old). There used to be an old fashioned and very British tap on the shoulder, "is he a good chap" system of secret soundings, but that was replaced by a modern and in its own way also very British system of filling in an endless form written in hideous management speak, and (literally) saying if you know any black or disabled people. The system is in my view undesirable, as it reduces a supposedly fearless and independent profession to the level of clients (in the Roman sense) of a government agency, hoping for preferment from the patron. I would rather let the market decide who is good and who is not. Many who become QCs are truly excellent, but lots of mediocre self promoters do it too, so the value of the brand as a gold standard is reduced.
Breadvan72 said:
My old chambers mucker and all round good egg James Eadie QC, the Treasury Devil, is being knighted. Back in the day, very grand silks would be knighted in much the same way that very grand surgeons were. Getting a K is always waaaaay classier than getting an L. This tradition of knighting has died out of late (not surprising, perhaps, now that silks, once a rarity, are available in bumper family packs in Iceland and Lidl); but - Arise, Sir James!
James is a posh bloke who lives in the shires, has a big brain, works very hard, and sees the funny side of life. The Treasury Devil is the Government 's number one courtroom lawyer, and by convention the role was always held by a junior and not a silk, but that tradition ended with Philip Sales, Eadie's predecessor in the role. It is usual for the Treasury Devil to become a High Court Judge at the end of their stint, but I don't know if that's what James is planning.
I guess one could argue that, given the the traditional definition of a devil, that neither Sales nor Eadie could be correctly described as TDs.James is a posh bloke who lives in the shires, has a big brain, works very hard, and sees the funny side of life. The Treasury Devil is the Government 's number one courtroom lawyer, and by convention the role was always held by a junior and not a silk, but that tradition ended with Philip Sales, Eadie's predecessor in the role. It is usual for the Treasury Devil to become a High Court Judge at the end of their stint, but I don't know if that's what James is planning.
https://sirhenrybrooke.me/2016/10/23/the-treasury-...
A slightly less than flattering reference.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/05/s...
The Devil's Rules.
http://www.chba.org.uk/for-members/library/profess...
Do you know how the term devilling originated? I haven't managed to find anything.
I used to know the origin of the term Devilling, but have forgotten it. At the Edinburgh Bar, Pupils are still referred to as "Divils" (Scots pronunciation).
When I was a junior junior, it was commonplace to be asked to ghost-write a piece of work for a more senior junior or a silk, and that was called Devilling. This is rare these days. The Devil would be paid half of the fee charged by the more senior barrister, usually waiting until that barrister had him or herself been paid in order to collect the half; but some senior people would pay their Devils up front, and wait to be paid themselves (I always paid my Devils up front).
In those days it was not uncommon to wait three years to be paid, and there was no way to chase for fees, because if you chased for fees the solicitor would just say that he or she would never instruct anyone in your chambers ever again (and as that solicitor might be sending one million quid brief fee Singapore cases to your Head of Chambers, this was a big deal). Nowadays three months is more usual and solicitors are more equable about being chased for money.
Strictly speaking, the Treasury Devil might be called First Treasury Counsel, although that title is usually used by the main prosecutor at the Old Bailey. I was Treasury Counsel for twelve years, and was in the pool below the Treasury Devil (called the Attorney General's London Panel) , so when Eadie or his predecessor was too busy on something else I or one of the other taxis on the Government rank would get the gig. On big strategic matters, there would sometimes be a meeting between the Treasury Devil and all of the A Panelists to agree on what the Government line would be. There are records of such meetings dating back to the time of Lord Mansfield, in the mid to late eighteenth century. The Devil might sometimes meet with the Attorney General for really big stuff, but we generally saw little of Mr or Madame Attorney, save at occasional shindigs. The Solicitor General (who was usually a barrister and not a solicitor) deals mainly with the criminal side.
When I was a junior junior, it was commonplace to be asked to ghost-write a piece of work for a more senior junior or a silk, and that was called Devilling. This is rare these days. The Devil would be paid half of the fee charged by the more senior barrister, usually waiting until that barrister had him or herself been paid in order to collect the half; but some senior people would pay their Devils up front, and wait to be paid themselves (I always paid my Devils up front).
In those days it was not uncommon to wait three years to be paid, and there was no way to chase for fees, because if you chased for fees the solicitor would just say that he or she would never instruct anyone in your chambers ever again (and as that solicitor might be sending one million quid brief fee Singapore cases to your Head of Chambers, this was a big deal). Nowadays three months is more usual and solicitors are more equable about being chased for money.
Strictly speaking, the Treasury Devil might be called First Treasury Counsel, although that title is usually used by the main prosecutor at the Old Bailey. I was Treasury Counsel for twelve years, and was in the pool below the Treasury Devil (called the Attorney General's London Panel) , so when Eadie or his predecessor was too busy on something else I or one of the other taxis on the Government rank would get the gig. On big strategic matters, there would sometimes be a meeting between the Treasury Devil and all of the A Panelists to agree on what the Government line would be. There are records of such meetings dating back to the time of Lord Mansfield, in the mid to late eighteenth century. The Devil might sometimes meet with the Attorney General for really big stuff, but we generally saw little of Mr or Madame Attorney, save at occasional shindigs. The Solicitor General (who was usually a barrister and not a solicitor) deals mainly with the criminal side.
I was fortunate enough to be sent to a very good school, it failed me for two reasons, I spent the entire time day dreaming about going sailing, the school failed to give any career advice, no body said "now listen to me Curtis, you could be a Barrister or wotnot"
Halfway through an engineering degree I asked about changing to a law degree, they said i had to start all over again, nobody said 'jolly good idea, you best crack on'
So here I am, nearly 50 years old with a toddler, in a badly paid although interesting enough career in engineering when there are so many other things much more challenging and rewarding that I could have done.
Too late to be a barrister now.
Halfway through an engineering degree I asked about changing to a law degree, they said i had to start all over again, nobody said 'jolly good idea, you best crack on'
So here I am, nearly 50 years old with a toddler, in a badly paid although interesting enough career in engineering when there are so many other things much more challenging and rewarding that I could have done.
Too late to be a barrister now.
Mr Bread van,
If I may
Next time can you put a full name in the title, as I clicked on this expecting someone who is well known, James Dyson or the like.
Now, I'm sure this fella is a nice guy and everything, but unfortunately, he is just some unknown bloke to me. This kinda stuff should be more reserved for a social media status update, or even a personal message to the bloke concerned.
So unfortunately, it comes down to a 'cool story bro meme', of which you can take your pick.
If I may
Next time can you put a full name in the title, as I clicked on this expecting someone who is well known, James Dyson or the like.
Now, I'm sure this fella is a nice guy and everything, but unfortunately, he is just some unknown bloke to me. This kinda stuff should be more reserved for a social media status update, or even a personal message to the bloke concerned.
So unfortunately, it comes down to a 'cool story bro meme', of which you can take your pick.
Huntsman said:
I was fortunate enough to be sent to a very good school, it failed me for two reasons, I spent the entire time day dreaming about going sailing, the school failed to give any career advice, no body said "now listen to me Curtis, you could be a Barrister or wotnot"
Halfway through an engineering degree I asked about changing to a law degree, they said i had to start all over again, nobody said 'jolly good idea, you best crack on'
So here I am, nearly 50 years old with a toddler, in a badly paid although interesting enough career in engineering when there are so many other things much more challenging and rewarding that I could have done.
Too late to be a barrister now.
Not so - you could still do it. It would be hard. Others older than you have done it.Halfway through an engineering degree I asked about changing to a law degree, they said i had to start all over again, nobody said 'jolly good idea, you best crack on'
So here I am, nearly 50 years old with a toddler, in a badly paid although interesting enough career in engineering when there are so many other things much more challenging and rewarding that I could have done.
Too late to be a barrister now.
Your university failed to tell you about the Diploma in Law. That's a one year course for graduates in subjects other than law, which gives access to the Bar course. I did a degree in history in 1981-84, and the Diploma in Law in 1984-85. That enabled me to go to Bar School in 1985-6 and then do pupillage in 1986-87. Thus it took me only one more year to qualify than it would have done if I had wasted my undergraduate years on a law degree. I also became (briefly) cool because I did the Diploma at an actual Poly.
I know of no school or university that recommends to students that they become barristers. No one in their right mind would recommend such a thing. It is something that you have to find out about for yourself. It's maybe a personality type. People tell me that I am very disagreeable and argumentative because I am a barrister. They are wrong. I am a barrister because I am very disagreeable and argumentative. You don't find the job. The job finds you.
Every barrister ever was described by Anthony Trollope in the 1860s, thus -
"Mr. Thomas Dove, familiarly known among club-men, attorneys' clerks, and, perhaps, even among judges when very far from their seats of judgment, as Turtle Dove, was a counsel learned in the law. He was a counsel so learned in the law, that there was no question within the limits of an attorney's capability of putting to him, that he could not answer with the aid of his books. And when he had once given an opinion, all Westminster could not move him from it,—nor could Chancery Lane and Lincoln's Inn and the Temple added to Westminster. When Mr. Dove had once been positive, no man on earth was more positive. It behoved him, therefore, to be right when he was positive; and though whether wrong or right he was equally stubborn, it must be acknowledged that he was seldom proved to be wrong. Consequently the attorneys believed in him, and he prospered. He was a thin man, over fifty years of age, very full of scorn and wrath, impatient of a fool, and thinking most men to be fools; afraid of nothing on earth,—and, so his enemies said, of nothing elsewhere; eaten up by conceit; fond of law, but fonder, perhaps, of dominion; soft as milk to those who acknowledged his power, but a tyrant to all who contested it; conscientious, thoughtful, sarcastic, bright-witted, and laborious. He was a man who never spared himself. If he had a case in hand, though the interest to himself in it was almost nothing, he would rob himself of rest for a week should a point arise which required such labour. It was the theory of Mr. Dove's life that he would never be beaten. Perhaps it was some fear in this respect that had kept him from Parliament and confined him to the courts and the company of attorneys. He was, in truth, a married man with a family; but they who knew him as the terror of opponents and as the divulger of legal opinions, heard nothing of his wife and children. He kept all such matters quite to himself, and was not given to much social intercourse with those among whom his work lay. Out at Streatham, where he lived, Mrs. Dove probably had her circle of acquaintance;—but Mr. Dove's domestic life and his forensic life were kept quite separate."
(From "The Eustace Diamonds, Chapter XXV - "Mr Dove's Opinion"*)
* The Opinion itself (which is about whether some fabulous diamonds belong to a landed family as heirlooms, or belong to the hottie adventuress young widow who has gone off with them) appears in the chapter and was written for Trollope by an actual Chancery barrister of the time. There is still debate about whether the Opinion is correct.
hyphen said:
That is exactly my point, your thread title should have given sufficient information for one to have made a decision on whether or not to click on it.
You failed to do that.
Anyway I don't want to distract from your thread, so congrats to your mate James
Yeah well bite me. If you want to be Thread Title Monitor, you have to apply for a special hat. There's a waiting list. You failed to do that.
Anyway I don't want to distract from your thread, so congrats to your mate James
I was referring to Groucho's most famous line. The one about being a member of a club.
BTW, over the exit door of the London club that bear's Groucho;s name, there used to be inscribed his second most famous line:
"I've had a great evening, but this wasn't it".
I am now off to have that sort of evening. Mwahs.
BTW, over the exit door of the London club that bear's Groucho;s name, there used to be inscribed his second most famous line:
"I've had a great evening, but this wasn't it".
I am now off to have that sort of evening. Mwahs.
hyphen said:
Next time can you put a full name in the title, as I clicked on this expecting someone who is well known, James Dyson or the like.
It clearly couldn't have been Dyson as he received his knighthood over a decade ago.Breadvan72 said:
hyphen said:
That is exactly my point, your thread title should have given sufficient information for one to have made a decision on whether or not to click on it.
You failed to do that.
Anyway I don't want to distract from your thread, so congrats to your mate James
Yeah well bite me. If you want to be Thread Title Monitor, you have to apply for a special hat. There's a waiting list. You failed to do that.
Anyway I don't want to distract from your thread, so congrats to your mate James
Some PH readers simply have unrealistic expectations.
When I see a thread started by BV72it is likely to be either about automotive rustbuckets or something to do with the legal profession.
A pean of praise from him for a Z list celeb is not high on the list.
Huntsman said:
I was fortunate enough to be sent to a very good school, it failed me for two reasons, I spent the entire time day dreaming about going sailing, the school failed to give any career advice, no body said "now listen to me Curtis, you could be a Barrister or wotnot"
Halfway through an engineering degree I asked about changing to a law degree, they said i had to start all over again, nobody said 'jolly good idea, you best crack on'
So here I am, nearly 50 years old with a toddler, in a badly paid although interesting enough career in engineering when there are so many other things much more challenging and rewarding that I could have done.
Too late to be a barrister now.
More than enough barristers anyway. Halfway through an engineering degree I asked about changing to a law degree, they said i had to start all over again, nobody said 'jolly good idea, you best crack on'
So here I am, nearly 50 years old with a toddler, in a badly paid although interesting enough career in engineering when there are so many other things much more challenging and rewarding that I could have done.
Too late to be a barrister now.
What about training to be a Barista? You can learn to that in 3 weeks.
Learning to be a barrister can take up to 6.
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